Gender pay gap

[ashurbanipal]

I don't know if the statistics do back the case that more companies discriminate against women more often then men. I think given today's climate it is more likely men are more discriminated against due to companies fearing public backlash.

Companies do indeed fear public backlash, but the typical means of controlling that is by controlling who knows what. Obviously, employees know, at least approximately, their own wage or salary. At every company I've ever worked for, it's a one-and-done firing offense to tell anyone else your wage or salary--the trend now is to include in employee manuals that even spouses are not exempt, and any evidence a spouse knows an employee's wage or salary will result in termination.

The database that stores employee pay information is typically the most secure, or one of the most secure, databases a company will possess, and very few individuals usually have the right to access it.

The statistics I've seen indicate that women's income still lags behind men's. While that's certainly not proof that companies discriminate against women, it's hard to square with the claim that none, or only a few, do.

I recently saw one statistic that women in their 20s on average make more than men.

If you have a citation or link, I'd be interested to see it.

 

[MaggieD]

Women do tend to get paid less, but that’s because they work less. It is definitely not some kind of discrimination inherent to the employment process. I mean it’s not like the employer is saying my male employees get paid $15/hr and my female employees will be paid $12/hr. It simply doesn’t work like that and as someone pointed out that is illegal if anyone is doing that. The fact of the matter is that women work far less and are way more inefficient than men, hence they get paid less. Personally I think women shouldn’t strive to be part of the workforce. I believe in traditional gender roles and even most women would agree they would be much happier as house wives rearing children than working all day and coming home in the evening exhausted. It’s part of male chivalry to insist your wife shouldn’t work outside the home and take care of the financial needs of the family yourself.

You almost had me fooled. Until you said women aren't as efficient. From there on, younsounded very much like another poster we had here a number of years ago. But I'll give you THAT benefit of the doubt. As for insisting your wife stay home, that's called controlling behavior not chivalry.

Now go make me a sandwich.

 

[American]

It completely depends upon level of experience and seniority in many cases. It depends upon whether or not women are as good negotiators when hired. If men are better negotiators, then, all other things being equal, men will continue to earn more than their female counterparts all the way down the line. If there are unions involved, they will be paid the same for the same job designation and seniority level. In jobs depending on commission, they have the same opportunity. Whether they earn the same or not depends on them. They could just as easily earn more.

Many jobs can't be easily quantified because they're too often not the same within a company. Responsibilities may vary from position to position. A man might be a supervisor/manager of fifty people. A woman might be a supervisor/manager over twenty. Same title. Different responsibilities.

I often wonder how statistics are developed. If you gather stats based on full-time workers in total, I'm pretty sure women would, in the aggregate, make less if only because women often choose to put their children ahead of their careers and thus accept jobs that, for instance, are closer to home, offer flexible hours, more personal days, or less responsibility among other things.

My instincts tell me that stats would be difficult to obtain and thus can't be depended upon for accuracy.

It's been shown that men are more willing to make sacrifices to get ahead, while women are less willing (typically in the area of family); otherwise they are paid the same.

 

[MaggieD]

It's been shown that men are more willing to make sacrifices to get ahead, while women are less willing (typically in the area of family); otherwise they are paid the same.

I'm not sure how that's been shown. But since women typically handle more on the home and family management front, it's not hard to imagine.

 

[American]

I'm not sure how that's been shown. But since women typically handle more on the home and family management front, it's not hard to imagine.

It's been shown in studies. I'm not looking them up, but they're out there. The argument has been going on for decades, and is a total myth at this point. Unequal pay probably ended in the 80's.

 

[Bodi]

I'm sure there are jobs that do pay women less than men for doing the same job with the same experience/seniority/education/etc. But those situations are the exception and not the rule.

I would argue that there are many men that get paid less than men for the same job too... but we dont hear about that.

 

[Bodi]

I'm not sure how that's been shown. But since women typically handle more on the home and family management front, it's not hard to imagine.

The argument should be ... do some people make less than others for the same job? The answer is yes. Some women make less than men and some women make less than men. The reasons are documented. The sex of the person is irrelevant.

 

[MrWonka]

Why do I say that? Because it is illegal...

For the crime to be discovered someone would have to be made aware of it. Given how rare it is for employees to discuss their salary with other employees it would be virtually impossible to determine.

 

[MaggieD]

The argument should be ... do some people make less than others for the same job? The answer is yes. Some women make less than men and some women make less than men. The reasons are documented. The sex of the person is irrelevant.

Well, you didn't say it quite right, but I know what you mean. And I agree.

 

[straykatz]

At minimum wage or lower income levels there is no difference in pay between genders. However, the higher up the income scale you go the gap is there between what a women is paid versus a male for the exact same job despite the naysayers. Possibly because with many higher income positions she would name her salary or negotiate a salary during the hiring phase and maybe a woman simply doesn't ask for a higher wage through no fault of her own because in most cases a lot of companies do not indicate the pay scale upfront before going into negotiation. Also, more and more women are breaking into the tech industry which is predominantly male dominated and sadly they're often too quick to accept lower pay just to get their foot into the door without realizing the pay offered is not equal to their male co-workers starting salary or mistakenly presuming once hired they will get performance based increases to bring them up to equal pay.

 

[Bodi]

Well, you didn't say it quite right, but I know what you mean. And I agree.

Ooops! LOL

I said women twice. My bad.

 

[X Factor]

Physical labor, mental alertness, coming to work everyday and not always calling in sick…all of this is related to work efficiency. In general women score way lower than men in this regard. It’s not say that women are incompetent, there could be genuine factors that are biological, mental and the fact that women can’t handle stress as well as men, nor do they have that same drive and ambition that we do. And women that have small kids while at the same time working, especially single mothers are under extreme amount of stress that it’s quite unhealthy. Women weren’t meant for the workforce, they were meant for the apron.

You're alone, aren't you?

 

[SeAnThOmAs]

There is a gender pay gap, but women don't always choose the same careers as men do, so it is not easy to say if they get payed less for doing the exact same job as men.

 

[Cephus]

There is a gender pay gap, but women don't always choose the same careers as men do, so it is not easy to say if they get payed less for doing the exact same job as men.

There is no gender pay gap. Women *CHOOSE* of their own free will to go into fields that pay less, that require less time and commitment, that require less skill, that require less overtime and effort, that are less dangerous, etc. We have seen this time and time again, where the far left tries to push women into STEM fields and women, by and large, just don't want go. Then they whine that there's a pay gap caused by the imaginary patriarchy.

Liberals are idiots.

 

[Lursa]

There is no gender pay gap. Women *CHOOSE* of their own free will to go into fields that pay less, that require less time and commitment, that require less skill, that require less overtime and effort, that are less dangerous, etc. We have seen this time and time again, where the far left tries to push women into STEM fields and women, by and large, just don't want go. Then they whine that there's a pay gap caused by the imaginary patriarchy.

Liberals are idiots.

You seem to miss the point where people discuss less pay for *the same jobs.*

 

[Lursa]

The claim about women cumulatively working less has a great deal to do with the fact that they are usually considered the primary care-giver for the children in the family OR are more commonly the custodial parent in a split family and end up with having to take time off to care for sick children, school issues, etc. Not to mention maternity leave.

 

[Cephus]

You seem to miss the point where people discuss less pay for *the same jobs.*

Which has been illegal since the 1963 Equal Pay Act. People with the same jobs, the same education and the same skills make the same money regardless of gender. Any company that doesn't is violating a federal law that has existed for 50 years and deserves to get slammed in the courts. Funny, you don't see a lot of those cases, do you?

 

[Cephus]

The claim about women cumulatively working less has a great deal to do with the fact that they are usually considered the primary care-giver for the children in the family OR are more commonly the custodial parent in a split family and end up with having to take time off to care for sick children, school issues, etc. Not to mention maternity leave.

That is still their choice. You are not holding the woman accountable for her choices, you want to give her EXTRA rights for being a women, yet not hold her accountable for the consequences of those choices. Exactly why should a man, who has worked 20 years, done overtime every single week, been committed to work over everything else, get paid the same as a woman who takes time off for her children, takes maternity leave several times in that 20 years, who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't have the same level of commitment, leaves work early, etc. Which of those two people are more valuable to the company and thus deserves to get paid more?

If you're going to demand apples to apples, don't compare apples to orangutans.

 

[Lursa]

That is still their choice. You are not holding the woman accountable for her choices, you want to give her EXTRA rights for being a women, yet not hold her accountable for the consequences of those choices. Exactly why should a man, who has worked 20 years, done overtime every single week, been committed to work over everything else, get paid the same as a woman who takes time off for her children, takes maternity leave several times in that 20 years, who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't have the same level of commitment, leaves work early, etc. Which of those two people are more valuable to the company and thus deserves to get paid more?

If you're going to demand apples to apples, don't compare apples to orangutans.

Never said it wasnt a choice. Never made any subjective comments at all, nor made any comparisons.

 

[Lursa]

Which has been illegal since the 1963 Equal Pay Act. People with the same jobs, the same education and the same skills make the same money regardless of gender. Any company that doesn't is violating a federal law that has existed for 50 years and deserves to get slammed in the courts. Funny, you don't see a lot of those cases, do you?

And yet, apparently it still occurs.

 

[Josie]

Not sure why this thread was necro'd.

Yes, sometimes men and women are paid differently for the same job. Lots of factors go into that --- how much you work, quality of work/evaluations, time taken off, etc.

If any woman is paid less than a man for exactly the same work, same time spent doing the work, same quality of work, etc. then they have every right to sue their employers as that is against the law.

 

[DaveFagan]

There is a gender pay gap, but women don't always choose the same careers as men do, so it is not easy to say if they get payed less for doing the exact same job as men.

Women miss 16% more work than men, their healthcare costs four times as much, and actuarial tables reveal that because they live three more years than men, they collect three more years retirement income. That's the first step to see if they are paid less than men, or more, eh?
/

 

[Cephus]

Never said it wasnt a choice. Never made any subjective comments at all, nor made any comparisons.

Then there is no gender pay gap. There's a gender choice gap.

 

[Cephus]

And yet, apparently it still occurs.

Evidence?

 

[Lursa]

Then there is no gender pay gap. There's a gender choice gap.

Again, that is not the only area where a gap exists.