Gazans 'wasting away' as mass starvation spreads, humanitarian groups warn

[Felis Leo]

HAMAS is the one who started the war, who turned food into a weapon, who keeps this war going, who refuses ceasefires, and whose conditions for ending them are so ridiculous that even Qatar and Egypt are rejecting them.

Well, yes. Hamas is completely unreasonable. They are literally an Islamic-Fascist terror group. But I do not believe it is right, moral, just or sensible to trade blood for blood against a terror organization, killing absolutely everyone in the way.

Your anger would be better aimed at the people who wanted this war, who made sure they got this war, who made sure it would be as awful as they could possibly make it, and who make sure to keep the war going.

That would really only hold greater weight if I did not consider the lives of innocent Israelis and innocent Palestinians as being fundamentally equally valuable, and both Hamas and the Israeli Defense Force equally capable of agency.

I find the surprise attack and slaughter of 1,200 Israelis (mostly innocent civilians) horrific and despicable, and rightly hold Hamas responsible for intentionally carrying out this mass murder. But I cannot then just shrug and say 60,000 slaughtered Palestinians (again, mostly innocent civilians) is "just war" and the Israelis who killed them somehow devoid of any agency when they pulled the trigger or dropped bombs or fired mortars and artillery shells on refugee camps, Mosques, Hospitals or the only Catholic Church in Gaza because Hamas initiated the war.

I would be engaging in special moral pleading, and would have to consider Israeli life uniquely precious and Palestinian life uniquely worthless to come to the conclusion that what Israel is doing is right or justified.

 

[Parrish]

Israeli forces have been searching for all hostages - living and dead - since the beginning of this conflict.

Are they bombing to comb the destruction for DNA?

 

[cpwill]

Are they bombing to comb the destruction for DNA?

No, I believe they are striking to destroy HAMAS, which is also a priority in this conflict.

 

[Geoist]

This is the type of situation we should be having UN or NATO forces heading in to stabilize the region/city and ensuring aid gets through. Why aren't we doing it?

 

[Parrish]

No, I believe they are striking to destroy HAMAS, which is also a priority in this conflict.

Thank you. They have stopped looking for hostages just an excuse to annihilate every human life like was done in the name of god from Sodom and Gomorrah. Or the flood.

 

[Pyrite]

No, I believe they are striking to destroy HAMAS, which is also a priority in this conflict.

Post #53

The Netanyahu Government has dispossessed and displaced 2 million Palestinians.

The Netanyahu Government has brought many of these trapped Palestinians to the point of starvation. The Netanyahu Government has also deprived helpless people of potable water and access to medical/health care.

The Netanyahu Government has already killed close to (probably more than) 60,000 Palestinians.

Yet Hamas is not eliminated.

This means you are willing to tolerate the Netanyahu Government's torturing and killing more trapped and helpless Palestinians in the name of "destroying Hamas".

What number of dead Palestinians will be too many for you to stomach? 100,000? 200,000?

 

[Parrish]

No, I believe they are striking to destroy HAMAS, which is also a priority in this conflict.

Gee, I thought it was to free and recover the hostages.

 

[bomberfox]

This is such a BS article.

But, to be expected from BBC, which has become a HAMAS mouthpiece.

Oh dear i suppose now GB news is going to be controlled by Hamas now lol.

 

[bomberfox]

HAMAS is the one who started the war, who turned food into a weapon, who keeps this war going, who refuses ceasefires, and whose conditions for ending them are so ridiculous that even Qatar and Egypt are rejecting them.

Your anger would be better aimed at the people who wanted this war, who made sure they got this war, who made sure it would be as awful as they could possibly make it, and who make sure to keep the war going.

Is that why the very man who stole food to sell on the black market ( the ISIS drug runner i told you about) is running the GHF (the one Netanyahu arms) and now gunning down palestinians? That kinda puts a hole in the whole conspiracy about UNRWA.

I see posters in this forum claiming its to stop food riots.

 

[cpwill]

Well, yes. Hamas is completely unreasonable. They are literally an Islamic-Fascist terror group.

Indeed. And, so, I have to ask: Why should the BBC accept and repeat their messaging without validation and without citing it as such?

And, when the BBC (and other outlets) do so: why should we take what they say verbatim?


For example:

I find the surprise attack and slaughter of 1,200 Israelis (mostly innocent civilians) horrific and despicable, and rightly hold Hamas responsible for intentionally carrying out this mass murder.
But I cannot then just shrug and say 60,000 slaughtered Palestinians (again, mostly innocent civilians) is "just war" and the Israelis who killed them somehow devoid of any agency when they pulled the trigger or dropping bombs on refugee camps, Mosques, Hospitals or the only Catholic Church in Gaza because Hamas initiated the war.

If those figures came from an organization run by HAMAS, should we trust HAMAS to tell us the truth?

 

[Parrish]

Hold your children and grandchildren and family close tonight and be thankful that they are not starving or blown to bits.

 

[cpwill]

(I wanted to split the replies, as they became two distinct points)

I find the surprise attack and slaughter of 1,200 Israelis (mostly innocent civilians) horrific and despicable, and rightly hold Hamas responsible for intentionally carrying out this mass murder.
But I cannot then just shrug and say 60,000 slaughtered Palestinians (again, mostly innocent civilians) is "just war" and the Israelis who killed them somehow devoid of any agency when they pulled the trigger or dropping bombs on refugee camps, Mosques, Hospitals or the only Catholic Church in Gaza because Hamas initiated the war.

Tragically, it is war. From someone who has Been There, Seen That.... what you are seeing is what urban warfare against Islamist terror networks looks like. This is what it looks like. It's not like the movies.

We bombed Mosques and Hospitals. Houses and Businesses. We shot and bombed children, we shot non-combatants, and we shot members of our own forces. Those are things that happen in war - some of it on purpose, some of it as accepted risk, and some of it completely on accident.

And the people who told you to be very angry about this? Why no mass protest movement over Syria, where over half a million people died? Why did they not try to gin up this kind of anger over Yemen where over a third of a million people have died? They barely covered the genocides ISIS attempted.

An Israeli mob killed an American. It became a big story - got highlighted here and all over. Islamists in Syria killed an American as part of butchering the Druze.... for some reason.... just less interesting? just less meaningful?

....interesting how they seem to only care about conflicts in the middle east when they can try to blame One Particular Actor. This isn't to say that one conflict being bad doesn't make another not bad; it is (again) to point out that the media bias here is deep and real and its effects are pernicious.

The temperature (and degree of bias) in the coverage isn't determiend (for them) by the question of whether an Israeli life is worth more than a Palestinian life is worth more than a Druze life is worth more than an American life (all are equal in inherent dignity and in their basic human rights). Instead, it is a matter of who can be blamed for the killing that makes it of value.

And that is also deeply, deeply, wrong.

 

[Pyrite]

Indeed. And, so, I have to ask: Why should the BBC accept and repeat their messaging without validation and without citing it as such?

And, when the BBC (and other outlets) do so: why should we take what they say verbatim?

Post #60


Pay attention. The BBC article - which I excerpted - quotes Doctors without Borders, Oxfam, and other aid groups. Are you of the opinion that 100 aid groups are lying?

You claim the article is "BS", yet you cannot point to any parts you can prove are false/inaccurate.

It's starting to look as if you've failed to read the article and are simply rejecting it because you don't like to be confronted with the reality that the Netanyahu Government is using food as a weapon.

 

[Felis Leo]

Is that why the very man who stole food to sell on the black market ( the ISIS drug runner i told you about) is running the GHF (the one Netanyahu arms) and now gunning down palestinians? That kinda puts a hole in the whole conspiracy about UNRWA.

I see posters in this forum claiming its to stop food riots.

Sometimes, you need to fire a 120mm high explosive tank round to prevent even more civilians from dying in a food riot.

Israeli tanks kill 59 people in Gaza crowd trying to get food aid, medics say

One of the bloodiest incidents yet in mounting violence as desperate residents struggle for food.

www.reuters.com

...or something.

 

[bomberfox]

(I wanted to split the replies, as they became two distinct points)



Tragically, it is war. From someone who has Been There, Seen That.... what you are seeing is what urban warfare against Islamist terror networks looks like. This is what it looks like. It's not like the movies.

We bombed Mosques and Hospitals. Houses and Businesses. We shot and bombed children, we shot non-combatants, and we shot members of our own forces. Those are things that happen in war - some of it on purpose, some of it as accepted risk, and some of it completely on accident.

And the people who told you to be very angry about this? Why no mass protest movement over Syria, where over half a million people died? Why did they not try to gin up this kind of anger over Yemen where over a third of a million people have died? They barely covered the genocides ISIS attempted.

An Israeli mob killed an American. It became a big story - got highlighted here and all over. Islamists in Syria killed an American as part of butchering the Druze.... for some reason.... just less interesting? just less meaningful?

....interesting how they seem to only care about conflicts in the middle east when they can try to blame One Particular Actor. This isn't to say that one conflict being bad doesn't make another not bad; it is (again) to point out that the media bias here is deep and real and its effects are pernicious.

The temperature (and degree of bias) in the coverage isn't determiend (for them) by the question of whether an Israeli life is worth more than a Palestinian life is worth more than a Druze life is worth more than an American life (all are equal in inherent dignity and in their basic human rights). Instead, it is a matter of who can be blamed for the killing that makes it of value.

And that is also deeply, deeply, wrong.

Hmm i dont think the leader of the myanmar accountability project fits that bill.

 

[cpwill]

Is that why the very man who stole food to sell on the black market ( the ISIS drug runner i told you about) is running the GHF (the one Netanyahu arms) and now gunning down palestinians? That kinda puts a hole in the whole conspiracy about UNRWA.

I see posters in this forum claiming its to stop food riots.

I'm not aware of GHF gunning down Palestinians (in fact HAMAS has killed several GHF members - somehow that got very little coverage, gosh, I wonder why), but I do believe that troops would use lethal force to stop a riot. I also think that when HAMAS accuses Israel of being responsible for dead and wounded civilians based on Because I Said So, and Israel accuses HAMAS of being responsible based on Literal Drone Imagery Of Masked HAMAS Gunmen Shooting Up Civilians Trying To Get Aid, that Israel has the better evidence for such cases, and HAMAS is probably the least trustworthy actor in this conflict.

I am also aware that BBC and others - again - repeats HAMAS claims about people getting gunned down verbatim without checking or validating, resulting in them becoming the mouthpiece for a deliberately crafted image of this attempt to feed the Palestinian people.

 

[Pyrite]

That so many people on this thread and in other threads seem to believe it's okay for a modern military state to target, torture, and slaughter 60,000 trapped civilians is a pathetic and tragic development in our society.

That some of these people seem believe it's okay for the modern military state to continue to target, torture, and slaughter trapped civilians - perhaps as many as 100,000 or more - makes me think our society is becoming morally depraved.

 

[Pyrite]

I'm not aware of GHF gunning down Palestinians (in fact HAMAS has killed several GHF members - somehow that got very little coverage, gosh, I wonder why), but I do believe that troops would use lethal force to stop a riot. I also think that when HAMAS accuses Israel of being responsible for dead and wounded civilians based on Because I Said So, and Israel accuses HAMAS of being responsible based on Literal Drone Imagery Of Masked HAMAS Gunmen Shooting Up Civilians Trying To Get Aid, that Israel has the better evidence for such cases, and HAMAS is probably the least trustworthy actor in this conflict.

I am also aware that BBC and others - again - repeats HAMAS claims about people getting gunned down verbatim without checking or validating, resulting in them becoming the mouthpiece for a deliberately crafted image of this attempt to feed the Palestinian people.

The IDF has gunned down starving Palestinians as they are funneled past the Israeli military on their way to the GHF sites.

It's similar to hunters' establishing a lure to attract animals, which the hunters then fire upon.

 

[cpwill]

Is that why the very man who stole food to sell on the black market ( the ISIS drug runner i told you about) is running the GHF (the one Netanyahu arms)

The GHF - which was set up by Biden's State Department - is headed up by Johnnie Moore who is not an ISIS Drug Runner.

Who told you that an ISIS drug runner was running GHF? What else have they told you about this conflict that you have believed and repeated?

 

[Parrish]

That so many people on this thread and in other threads seem to believe it's okay for a modern military state to target, torture, and slaughter 60,000 trapped civilians is a pathetic and tragic development in our society.

That some of these people seem believe it's okay for the modern military state to continue to target, torture, and slaughter trapped civilians - perhaps as many as 100,000 or more - makes me think our society is becoming morally depraved.

Just to save the political career of a corrupt politician and now a war criminal. Sound familiar?

 

[cpwill]

Sometimes, you need to fire a 120mm high explosive tank round to prevent even more civilians from dying in a food riot.

Israeli tanks kill 59 people in Gaza crowd trying to get food aid, medics say

One of the bloodiest incidents yet in mounting violence as desperate residents struggle for food.

www.reuters.com

...or something.

This kind of article is exactly what I'm talking about. Taking HAMAS officials word and repeating them without identifying them as such.

IIRC, this was the incident where they claimed Tanks had fired into the crowd, but the wounds tended to match those of 7.62x57 which, oddly, is the AK-47 caliber, but I'd have to go check to say that with confidence.

 

[cpwill]

Hmm i dont think the leader of the myanmar accountability project fits that bill.

I honestly do not know how that is supposed to be a response.

 

[Pyrite]

That is EXACTLY what I am talking about.

Tank rounds that somehow magically turned into 7.62 x 57mm rounds (which, wierdly, is the caliber for the AK-47)



The GHF - which was set up by Biden's State Department - is headed up by Johnnie Moore who is not an ISIS Drug Runner.

Who told you that an ISIS drug runner was running GHF? What else have they told you about this conflict that you have believed and repeated?

Post #69


PROVE your claim in Post #69 that "The GHF was set up by Biden's State Department".

Copies and pastes of excerpts from credible sources to which you provide the links.


Yes, the development of the GHF continues to be somewhat murky, but I've found nothing that says "Biden's State Department set it up".

What we do know: trump's administration not only tolerates the GHF, back in May it also took credit for it: Ambassador to Israel Mike Huckabee claimed that GHF is a "Trump initiative".

 

[Pyrite]

This kind of article is exactly what I'm talking about. Taking HAMAS officials word and repeating them without identifying them as such.

IIRC, this was the incident where they claimed Tanks had fired into the crowd, but the wounds tended to match those of 7.62x57 which, oddly, is the AK-47 caliber, but I'd have to go check to say that with confidence.

Post #71

AND you continue to ignore the inconvenient fact the BBC article cites aid groups such as Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders.

It appears you are, shall we say, "selective" re the facts you will acknowledge.

 

[Pyrite]

Post #71

AND you continue to ignore the inconvenient fact the BBC article cites aid groups such as Oxfam and Doctors Without Borders.

It appears you are, shall we say, "selective" re the facts you will acknowledge.

Add the UN to the list that already includes Doctors Without Borders and Oxfam:

...The UN has reported that hospitals have admitted people in a state of severe exhaustion caused by a lack of food, and that others are collapsing in the streets.

"As the Israeli government's siege starves the people of Gaza, aid workers are now joining the same food lines, risking being shot just to feed their families," the 109 humanitarian organisations said in the statement published on Wednesday.

"With supplies now totally depleted, humanitarian organisations are witnessing their own colleagues and partners waste away before their eyes."...