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Gazans Are Dying of Starvation (but why no pressure on Hamas or PA?)

No one has created more future terrorists than Bibi and Trump.

It'll be nukes by then.
 
snakestretcher said:
Would you behave "rationally" if your country had been under belligerent occupation for 60 years? A population controlled by an occupier who imprisons them behind 30 foot walls, with armed watch towers, which controls its few imports, food, water and energy, won't permit the citizens to return if they are even allowed to leave, who massacres women and children with both support from the West and complete impunity, has committed frequent war crimes and violations of every tenet of international law, has violated the Hague and Geneva conventions, the laws of occupation and international humanitarian law. And you expect Hamas to act "rationally"? Hamas are no more or less 'rational' than the genocidal bastards who have so far killed 50,000 innocent men, women and children in their quest for Eretz Israel and a Jewish ethno-state, free of Muslims.

Hamas was funded and propped-up by Netanyahu for his own interests, and although conveniently labelled 'terrorists' Hamas are legally, according to international law, permitted armed resistance against a belligerent occupier, Israel.

www.timesofisrael.com

For years, Netanyahu propped up Hamas. Now it’s blown up in our faces

The premier's policy of treating the terror group as a partner, at the expense of Abbas and Palestinian statehood, has resulted in wounds that will take Israel years to heal from
www.timesofisrael.com www.timesofisrael.com

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When "armed resistance" targets civilians, it is no longer legal armed resistance. It is terrorism. Do you think Hamas should still be considered "permitted armed resistance" after they raped and executed a bunch of children dancing at a music festival and took hundreds of civilian hostages in a cross-border raid inside Israel? Do you think their status should remain "legal" according to international law when they are actively using Palestinian woman and children to shield their combatants from airstrikes?

Those are called war crimes. You are not allowed to commit war crimes as a form of legal armed resistance. That's not how international law works. When an organization commits war crimes, it is no longer armed resistance. They are terrorists. And the world should have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to terrorism. And zero-tolerance means that it doesn't matter how justified their anger might be. You could kill my whole family and take everything I own. My anger at you would be 100% justified. But the minute I murder your child in revenge; I am no longer a sympathetic, legally oppressed person. I am now a child murderer, and my lifelong incarceration for that act is Justice with a capital "J." Of course it is unjust for you not to face justice for your crimes. But it would be ABSOLUTELY just for me to face justice for my crimes. Giving murderers a pass because they had a hard life and the ancestors of their victims committed a great wrong against their family is not justice.

Hamas is not a sympathetic figure here. They are terrorists, and they should be treated as such by the entire international community. That they largely aren't by otherwise good people around the world is a shocking moral failing in this day and age, and another glaring step backward on par with the rise of populism and ethnic nationalism in the progress of humankind. It is right to identify the evil things that Israel has done and label them as such. It is wrong, however, to blind yourself to the evil things the Palestinians have done in the spirit of "choosing a side." Israelis aren't evil, and neither are Palestinians. They have both done evil things in defense of their homelands. Palestinians don't think Jews belong in lands that were ancestrally theirs, therefore Israelis are returning the favor. They both need to accept the two-state solution.
 
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lwf said:
When "armed resistance" targets civilians, it is no longer legal armed resistance. It is terrorism. Do you think Hamas should still be considered "permitted armed resistance" after they raped and executed a bunch of children dancing at a music festival and took hundreds of civilian hostages in a cross-border raid inside Israel? Do you think their status should remain "legal" according to international law when they are actively using Palestinian woman and children to shield their combatants from airstrikes?

Those are called war crimes. You are not allowed to commit war crimes as a form of legal armed resistance. That's not how international law works. When an organization commits war crimes, it is no longer armed resistance. They are terrorists. And the world should have a zero-tolerance policy when it comes to terrorism. And zero-tolerance means that it doesn't matter how justified their anger might be. You could kill my whole family and take everything I own. My anger at you would be 100% justified. But the minute I murder your child in revenge; I am no longer a sympathetic, legally oppressed person. I am now a child murderer, and my lifelong incarceration for that act is Justice with a capital "J." Of course it is unjust for you not to face justice for your crimes. But it would be ABSOLUTELY just for me to face justice for my crimes. Giving murderers a pass because they had a hard life and the ancestors of their victims committed a great wrong against their family is not justice.

Hamas is not a sympathetic figure here. They are terrorists, and they should be treated as such by the entire international community. That they largely aren't by otherwise good people around the world is a shocking moral failing in this day and age, and another glaring step backward on par with the rise of populism and ethnic nationalism in the progress of humankind. It is right to identify the evil things that Israel has done and label them as such. It is wrong, however, to blind yourself to the evil things the Palestinians have done in the spirit of "choosing a side." Israelis aren't evil, and neither are Palestinians. They have both done evil things in defense of their homelands. Palestinians don't think Jews belong in lands that were ancestrally theirs, therefore Israelis are returning the favor. They both need to accept the two-state solution.
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Good, so using your definition the IDF, under the auspices of the criminal Israeli government, are also terrorists when deliberately targeting unarmed and starving civilians.

www.dailysabah.com

Israeli troops admit targeting aid-seeking Palestinians in Gaza

Israeli military officials admitted Monday that troops fired on Palestinians gathered at humanitarian aid distribution points in Gaza, including with...
www.dailysabah.com www.dailysabah.com

1753625495260.webp
 
snakestretcher said:
Good, so using your definition the IDF, under the auspices of the criminal Israeli government, are also terrorists when deliberately targeting unarmed and starving civilians.

www.dailysabah.com

Israeli troops admit targeting aid-seeking Palestinians in Gaza

Israeli military officials admitted Monday that troops fired on Palestinians gathered at humanitarian aid distribution points in Gaza, including with...
www.dailysabah.com www.dailysabah.com

View attachment 67581847
Click to expand...
That is a garbage source. The article itself debunks its own clickbait headline. From your article:

Unnamed officials from the Israeli army’s Southern Command confirmed that civilians had been killed due to what they called “inaccurate and uncalculated” artillery fire, the newspaper reported.

Israel does not target civilians. Civilian casualties inflicted by Israel are a byproduct of their opponent using them as human shields. It is not terrorism to accidentally kill civilians being unlawfully used as human shields by a belligerent in a declared theater of armed conflict.
 
Pyrite said:
But Israel hasn't been able to "destroy" Hamas, despite almost 22 months of its modern military's attacking and attacking and attacking....

In other words, Netanyahu et al are pursuing a losing strategy that does nothing but slaughter more and more civilians. It's looking more and more as if killing Palestinians in Gaza is the goal.
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With both hands tied behind their backs!
 
JBG said:
Gazans Are Dying of Starvation (link, no paywall) (excerpts below)

The question is, why aren't "Dr. Farra" or for that matter the New York Times, French President Macron or others apply pressure on PA or Hamas to "end the war" so that normal economic activity and ability to eat can resume? And what were these organizations and talking heads thinking would be the result of senseless slaughters like October 7, 2023 and the various stabbings, car rammings, suicide bombings or shootings? Let's not forget who caused the tragedy.

Yes, it's time for Hamas to surrender. The fight is over and now they are responsible for their own constituents' suffering and death.
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Hamas is shooting people who line up for food?

Btw, you might want to search under “Holocaust scholars accuse Israel of genocide.” It’s one thing to have some regrettable but inevitable civilian casualties in fighting Hamas, but turning Gaza into Dresden is a bit much.
 
Nickyjo said:
Hamas is shooting people who line up for food?

Btw, you might want to search under “Holocaust scholars accuse Israel of genocide.” It’s one thing to have some regrettable but inevitable civilian casualties in fighting Hamas, but turning Gaza into Dresden is a bit much.
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I doubt it.

I suppose that one has to look no further than Israel and the Jews for atrocities. From the poisoning of wells to the drinking of Christian babies' blood for Jews. And for Israel the deliberate genocide of peaceful practitioners of "pay to slay" where the families of shahids are rewarded by money while their children are copulating with 72 virgins. Of course, there are different ways to interpret events are far worse barbarity but whatever makes you happy.
 
JBG said:
I doubt it.

I suppose that one has to look no further than Israel and the Jews for atrocities. From the poisoning of wells to the drinking of Christian babies' blood for Jews. And for Israel the deliberate genocide of peaceful practitioners of "pay to slay" where the families of shahids are rewarded by money while their children are copulating with 72 virgins. Of course, there are different ways to interpret events are far worse barbarity but whatever makes you happy.
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How about just looking at facts?
 
JBG said:
Gazans Are Dying of Starvation (link, no paywall) (excerpts below)

The question is, why aren't "Dr. Farra" or for that matter the New York Times, French President Macron or others apply pressure on PA or Hamas to "end the war" so that normal economic activity and ability to eat can resume? And what were these organizations and talking heads thinking would be the result of senseless slaughters like October 7, 2023 and the various stabbings, car rammings, suicide bombings or shootings? Let's not forget who caused the tragedy.

Yes, it's time for Hamas to surrender. The fight is over and now they are responsible for their own constituents' suffering and death.
Click to expand...

Let's be clear here, you don't care about Palestinian lives at all, so you can stop pretending to for self serving reasons.

And why no pressure on Hamas and/or the PA ?

Because they have already agreed to handing over control of post war Gaza to a group of independent technocrats

Hamas and Fatah – the two main Palestinian factions which have been at odds for almost two decades – have agreed in talks in Cairo to create a committee that will jointly run the postwar Gaza Strip.

While Israel had refused to countenance a “day after” governing scenario involving Hamas or the Fatah-dominated Palestinian Authority (PA) in the West Bank, the move nonetheless signifies fresh willingness from Hamas to give up its rule of Gaza and could help advance internationally mediated ceasefire talks.


In talks brokered by Egypt, the two sides agreed on a committee of 10 to 15 politically independent technocrats, most of them from Gaza, who will administer education, health, the economy and aid and reconstruction with the help of international actors, negotiators said on Tuesday.
Click to expand...

www.theguardian.com

Hamas and Fatah agree to create committee to run postwar Gaza Strip

Two main Palestinian factions agree during talks in Cairo that politically independent technocrats will run territory
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

The problem is not getting the Palestinians to agree to this as per the above, the problem is getting Israel to cease waging war so as to clear the Strip of the Palestinians living there.

Maybe it's more accurate to say you should take a step out of the Israeli propaganda bubble before you make such stupid claims in your bid to put Israeli abominations and crimes on the toes of Palestinians.

These are Israeli state crimes and nobody is forcing them into continuing to commit them.

Your attempt to deflect is rejected as is your obvious fake concern over the lives/fate of Palestinians.
 
JBG said:
I doubt it.

I suppose that one has to look no further than Israel and the Jews for atrocities. From the poisoning of wells to the drinking of Christian babies' blood for Jews. And for Israel the deliberate genocide of peaceful practitioners of "pay to slay" where the families of shahids are rewarded by money while their children are copulating with 72 virgins. Of course, there are different ways to interpret events are far worse barbarity but whatever makes you happy.
Click to expand...
Not sure I understand your post, but the bottom line is that Israel, like other nations, can be held accountable for its actions. The centuries of oppression of Jews does not give Israel a free hand to similarly oppress others. As I posted, Holocaust scholars - and plenty of Israelis — are calling out Netanyahu’s policies. In my view, he and the extremist settlers he is supporting are creating more terrorists than he can kill.
 
Nickyjo said:
Not sure I understand your post, but the bottom line is that Israel, like other nations, can be held accountable for its actions. The centuries of oppression of Jews does not give Israel a free hand to similarly oppress others. As I posted, Holocaust scholars - and plenty of Israelis — are calling out Netanyahu’s policies. In my view, he and the extremist settlers he is supporting are creating more terrorists than he can kill.
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So it gives Hamas and more genteel Jew haters a free hand to ask Israel and the Jews national suicide?
 
Felis Leo said:
Hahaha, man. Funny. I am sure Hamas will be holding a referendum for all the citizens of Gaza to vote in on whether the hostages are released or not. Any day now.
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If such a referendum were held the hostages would do rather poorly.
 
JBG said:
So it gives Hamas and more genteel Jew haters a free hand to ask Israel and the Jews national suicide?
Click to expand...
Huh? Israel needs to kill and injure tens of thousands of children in order to defeat Hamas?
 
lwf said:
That is a garbage source. The article itself debunks its own clickbait headline. From your article:

Unnamed officials from the Israeli army’s Southern Command confirmed that civilians had been killed due to what they called “inaccurate and uncalculated” artillery fire, the newspaper reported.

Israel does not target civilians. Civilian casualties inflicted by Israel are a byproduct of their opponent using them as human shields. It is not terrorism to accidentally kill civilians being unlawfully used as human shields by a belligerent in a declared theater of armed conflict.
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I see you bought the Israeli propaganda lies, hook line and sinker. If you want to discuss the use of human shields let's start here:

www.theguardian.com

Israeli high court bans military use of Palestinians as human shields

· Even 'volunteers' breach Geneva pact, judge rules · Human rights victory after three-year struggle
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

www.bbc.co.uk

Two Israeli soldiers guilty of using human shield in Gaza

An Israeli military court convicts two Israeli soldiers for using a Palestinian child as a human shield during an assault on Gaza in 2009.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

www.theguardian.com

Israeli soldiers who used Palestinian boy, 9, as a human shield avoid jail

Mother says suspended sentences and demotions for forcing her son to check bag for bombs at gunpoint are 'a scandal'
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

I'd love to hear your explanation for the 'accidental' deaths of 50,000 civilians in Gaza; and there is no evidence that Hamas is using Palestinian civilians as human shields, because Israel and the IDF haven't provided any. I wonder why...probably for the same reason they won't allow independent journalists to enter Gaza to either confirm or refute Israeli claims.

Weaponising food aid, forbidding aid for three months, gang-raping prisoners, government ministers advocating for genocide, starving the population of Gaza and ethnic cleansing. That's not just terrorism, it's fascism at its monstrous worst. And you're defending and supporting those war crimes.

You might also ask yourself why the IDF orders civilians to remove themselves to so-called 'humanitarian zones', and then proceeds to bomb them.

www.bbc.co.uk

Gaza 'humanitarian zone' struck almost 100 times, BBC finds

The area in Gaza which Israel's military has told people to go to "for their safety" has been hit by 97 strikes since May, BBC Verify analysis has revealed.
www.bbc.co.uk www.bbc.co.uk

www.theguardian.com

What is al-Mawasi and why did Israel attack a ‘safe zone’?

The IDF says their latest deadly strikes targeted Hamas terrorists operating in the Khan Younis humanitarian area
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Anyone defending these inhuman bastards is no better than them.

1753703164707.webp
 
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JBG said:
Gazans Are Dying of Starvation (link, no paywall) (excerpts below)

The question is, why aren't "Dr. Farra" or for that matter the New York Times, French President Macron or others apply pressure on PA or Hamas to "end the war" so that normal economic activity and ability to eat can resume? And what were these organizations and talking heads thinking would be the result of senseless slaughters like October 7, 2023 and the various stabbings, car rammings, suicide bombings or shootings? Let's not forget who caused the tragedy.

Yes, it's time for Hamas to surrender. The fight is over and now they are responsible for their own constituents' suffering and death.
Click to expand...

Because the modern Left in the West has adopted two contradictory positions:

1. Israel is the worst actor in the region, and
2. Israel is the only actor that can be expected to act decently or for humanitarian reasons
 
NatMorton said:
From The Bee ...

View attachment 67581818
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Israel doesn’t give a shit about “the hostages” and never has.

You don’t launch an indiscriminate campaign of bombing, killing tens of thousands of innocent civilians, if you even remotely care about people being held at locations you don’t know in the first place.
 
cpwill said:
Because the modern Left in the West has adopted two contradictory positions:

1. Israel is the worst actor in the region, and
2. Israel is the only actor that can be expected to act decently or for humanitarian reasons
Click to expand...
Fun fact: expecting Israel to abide by international law is really not too much to ask, given the endless billions of dollars in aid the US so happily supplies year after year after year
 
lwf said:
That is a garbage source. The article itself debunks its own clickbait headline. From your article:

Unnamed officials from the Israeli army’s Southern Command confirmed that civilians had been killed due to what they called “inaccurate and uncalculated” artillery fire, the newspaper reported.

Israel does not target civilians. Civilian casualties inflicted by Israel are a byproduct of their opponent using them as human shields. It is not terrorism to accidentally kill civilians being unlawfully used as human shields by a belligerent in a declared theater of armed conflict.
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Israel absolutely targets civilians, and has for decades. Israel also makes extensive use of human shields, as its own soldiers have freely admitted.
 
Tigerace117 said:
Fun fact: expecting Israel to abide by international law is really not too much to ask, given the endless billions of dollars in aid the US so happily supplies year after year after year
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Israel has been violating every tenet of international law since 1948. Also the Geneva and Hague conventions, international humanitarian law, and the laws of occupation. There are mountains of evidence in support of that. Israel cares about abiding by the law and the consequences of breaking it, like Trump does. Incidentally all those laws, conventions and protocols are those which Israel swore to uphold and abide by as a condition of admittance to the United Nations; an organisation which would be far better served if Israel were to leave. Given Israel's disdain and clear dismissal of the UN and the countless condemnatory Resolutions filed against Israel, why doesn't it rescind its membership? They wouldn't be missed for even a nanosecond.
 
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