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Gay Wedding Cake Issue Revisited In Denver . . . Only Now It's Websites - Not Cakes

Another falsehood. You’re in poor form today. Stop with the bs agenda.
So a woman brings a suit against a state because she thinks she might expand her business to include wedding sites. She plans to promote her own ideas of marriage through her creative efforts. She plans to refuse to do wedding sites for gay weddings because they sinful and will cause her to go against her biblical understanding of marriage. (Other biblical prohibitions like adultery seem to be fine. She is probably also OK with eating pepperoni pizza, wearing clothing of mixed fibers and being unclean after giving birth.)

Two points: Ms Smith had not started her wedding site business when she brought suit. She had never been asked to create a wedding web site when she brought suit. The Christian lawyers included the call from Mike and Steve requesting a wedding site to confirm standing after the court questioned Ms Smith's standing. There was no request by Mike and Steve. Steve is married to a woman, they have a child and he has no idea why he is embroiled in this.

The other point: This Christian woman is charging the state with denying her right to freedom of speech. There are many more cases defending freedom of speech. Christian lawyers can point to lots of precedent. Freedom of speech is an easier case to win. This has been the tactic of the religious right for about 5 years, ever since people started seeing their whine of freedom of religion for what it really is : freedom to discriminate.
 
I am sick and tired of such allegations.
When in fact one could make the same argument that those who make such a claim are bigoted against anyone who refuses to go against their religious beliefs.
People do use religion as an excuse for various forms of bigotry.

Some use it to swindle money out of the elderly and the desperate too. There is a predatory side to religion.
 
Since she didnt even have a business she wasnt compelled. Unless she was actually compelled instead of hypothetically there is no standing according to scotus guidelines.
Maybe you should have told them that. Apparently, every single one of the justices was unaware, as literally no one contested standing in the majority or the dissent.
 
So a woman brings a suit against a state because she thinks she might expand her business to include wedding sites. She plans to promote her own ideas of marriage through her creative efforts. She plans to refuse to do wedding sites for gay weddings because they sinful and will cause her to go against her biblical understanding of marriage. (Other biblical prohibitions like adultery seem to be fine. She is probably also OK with eating pepperoni pizza, wearing clothing of mixed fibers and being unclean after giving birth.)

Two points: Ms Smith had not started her wedding site business when she brought suit. She had never been asked to create a wedding web site when she brought suit. The Christian lawyers included the call from Mike and Steve requesting a wedding site to confirm standing after the court questioned Ms Smith's standing. There was no request by Mike and Steve. Steve is married to a woman, they have a child and he has no idea why he is embroiled in this.

The other point: This Christian woman is charging the state with denying her right to freedom of speech. There are many more cases defending freedom of speech. Christian lawyers can point to lots of precedent. Freedom of speech is an easier case to win. This has been the tactic of the religious right for about 5 years, ever since people started seeing their whine of freedom of religion for what it really is : freedom to discriminate.
So now you want to talk about the specifics of this case after making blanket statements about Christians and the Christian church in general. You made false statements and now you want to point at one person and one situation and call that the church. Nice try.
 
What part of that is not backed up by common sense?
Common sense? Are you serious? Common sense looks at what it takes to make a baby and not at two men sodomizing one another. Common sense says live with the plumbing God gave you and don’t take hormones and have your breasts sliced off because you really want to be something you’re not. That’s common sense.
 
Common sense? Are you serious? Common sense looks at what it takes to make a baby and not at two men sodomizing one another. Common sense says live with the plumbing God gave you and don’t take hormones and have your breasts sliced off because you really want to be something you’re not. That’s common sense.

I think you've misunderstood me.
 
I had some trouble downloading this. Can you post the content here so everybody can see it?
I was able to save it as a pdf pretty easily. I don't want to break any copy right laws or forum rules by posting all of it. I can send you the file if you wish. Here is the gist of it.

I. RELIGIOUS JUSTIFICATIONS FOR DISCRIMINATIONThe fact that Judge Bazile referenced God in his decision upholding the Lovings’ conviction is neither surprising nor accidental. Bazile’s religious arguments were part of a long line of segregationist attitudes that tied religion to opposition to racial mixing. As William Eskridge has documented, for much of American history, biblical stories and religious principles provided the primary justification for various forms of racial oppression from slavery through segregation.9There were generally two biblical arguments used to justify slavery: the story of Ham and the regular appearances of slavery in the Bible. The story of Ham involves the three sons of Noah—Japheth, Shem, and Ham—who, according to Christian tradition, were said to be related to the three major races—Japheth with Europeans, Shem with Asians, and Ham with Africans.10 In the biblical story, Noah planted a vineyard and became intoxicated.11 While he slept, Ham saw his father naked.12 When Noah “awoke from his wine,” he “knew what his younger son had done unto him” and thus cursed him.13 Medieval and early modern Christianity viewed this passage as an indication that Ham had performed a sexual act on his sleeping father, thereby justifying the following curse: “Cursed be Canaan [son of Ham]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. . . . God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”14 This biblical curse on the descendants of Ham served as a religiously ordained justification for enslaving Africans in the colonial period.15Supporters of slavery also pointed to the prevalence of slavery throughout the Old Testament. Numerous biblical laws reference ownership of slaves.16 In addition, the Israelites were specifically instructed to take slaves from among the “heathen” surrounding their land: “‘[T]hey shall be your possession,’ and ‘ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.’”17 Although divisions arose within Protestant churches over support of slavery, for those who continued to approve of it, this biblical support for the institution provided the religious cover for their position.18After the Civil War and the abolition of slavery, biblical references and religious ideas continued to provide the primary justifications for segregation and discrimination. A second biblical story involving Nimrod, Ham’s grandson, provided the support for the notion that separation of the races was divinely ordained.19 According to Christian tradition, Nimrod led the project to build the Tower of Babel, attempting to reach the heavens.20 In response to this display of “human arrogance,” God made all the builders speak different languages and then “scattered them abroad . . . upon the face of all the earth.”21 In the minds of many, this passage identified God as the original segregationist.22 Finally, segregationists were also particularly concerned with miscegenation and interracial sexual mixing and found support for their position in biblical passages. Christian clergy pointed to Isaac’s blessing to Jacob in which he said, “Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan,” which they interpreted again as the descendants of Ham or those of African descent.23.
 
I was able to save it as a pdf pretty easily. I don't want to break any copy right laws or forum rules by posting all of it. I can send you the file if you wish. Here is the gist of it.

I. RELIGIOUS JUSTIFICATIONS FOR DISCRIMINATIONThe fact that Judge Bazile referenced God in his decision upholding the Lovings’ conviction is neither surprising nor accidental. Bazile’s religious arguments were part of a long line of segregationist attitudes that tied religion to opposition to racial mixing. As William Eskridge has documented, for much of American history, biblical stories and religious principles provided the primary justification for various forms of racial oppression from slavery through segregation.9There were generally two biblical arguments used to justify slavery: the story of Ham and the regular appearances of slavery in the Bible. The story of Ham involves the three sons of Noah—Japheth, Shem, and Ham—who, according to Christian tradition, were said to be related to the three major races—Japheth with Europeans, Shem with Asians, and Ham with Africans.10 In the biblical story, Noah planted a vineyard and became intoxicated.11 While he slept, Ham saw his father naked.12 When Noah “awoke from his wine,” he “knew what his younger son had done unto him” and thus cursed him.13 Medieval and early modern Christianity viewed this passage as an indication that Ham had performed a sexual act on his sleeping father, thereby justifying the following curse: “Cursed be Canaan [son of Ham]; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren. . . . God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.”14 This biblical curse on the descendants of Ham served as a religiously ordained justification for enslaving Africans in the colonial period.15Supporters of slavery also pointed to the prevalence of slavery throughout the Old Testament. Numerous biblical laws reference ownership of slaves.16 In addition, the Israelites were specifically instructed to take slaves from among the “heathen” surrounding their land: “‘[T]hey shall be your possession,’ and ‘ye shall take them as an inheritance for your children after you, to inherit them for a possession; they shall be your bondmen for ever.’”17 Although divisions arose within Protestant churches over support of slavery, for those who continued to approve of it, this biblical support for the institution provided the religious cover for their position.18After the Civil War and the abolition of slavery, biblical references and religious ideas continued to provide the primary justifications for segregation and discrimination. A second biblical story involving Nimrod, Ham’s grandson, provided the support for the notion that separation of the races was divinely ordained.19 According to Christian tradition, Nimrod led the project to build the Tower of Babel, attempting to reach the heavens.20 In response to this display of “human arrogance,” God made all the builders speak different languages and then “scattered them abroad . . . upon the face of all the earth.”21 In the minds of many, this passage identified God as the original segregationist.22 Finally, segregationists were also particularly concerned with miscegenation and interracial sexual mixing and found support for their position in biblical passages. Christian clergy pointed to Isaac’s blessing to Jacob in which he said, “Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan,” which they interpreted again as the descendants of Ham or those of African descent.23.

Well, I did know about that, after all. It's about the most half baked thing I have ever read.


Which "old time religion" were you referring to? Judaism?
 
So now you want to talk about the specifics of this case after making blanket statements about Christians and the Christian church in general. You made false statements and now you want to point at one person and one situation and call that the church. Nice try.
There were no false statements in either post and one person or one case is not "that church". It is factually correct to say that Evangelicalism is using the law to make their version of Christianity the legally acceptable version.

Jay Sekulow, chief counsel for the American Center for Law and Justice, has been claiming that religious speech is protected under the freedom of speech clause of the 1st Amendment since 1995 and ADF (Americans Defending Freedom ) lawyers used the freedom of speech defense in "303 Creative LLC vs Elenis" rather than a freedom of religion defense.
 
I read the article. Race and gender identity are apples and oranges.
Bigotry is bigotry. Based on some nonsense written long ago by ignorant assholes doesn't make it any better.
 
Bigotry is bigotry. Based on some nonsense written long ago by ignorant assholes doesn't make it any better.
Race and gender identity is apples and oranges. Bigotry is subjective. Your opinions are the easy way. Grow a set.
 
Race and gender identity is apples and oranges. Bigotry is subjective. Your opinions are the easy way. Grow a set.
Discriminating based on race or sexual orientation is still bigotry. Not subjective at all. Get a clue.
 
Discriminating based on race or sexual orientation is still bigotry. Not subjective at all. Get a clue.
So in your view protecting children from groomers is discriminatory. Drag queens reading to small children is fine with you. Biological males/trans “women” in women’s locker rooms is acceptable. Gay rights parades with sado masochists on floats is normal behavior. No lines need to be drawn in your view?
 
So in your view protecting children from groomers is discriminatory. Drag queens reading to small children is fine with you. Biological males/trans “women” in women’s locker rooms is acceptable. Gay rights parades with sado masochists on floats is normal behavior. No lines need to be drawn in your view?
There is a difference between approving of specific actions and bigotry. Heterosexual do far more harm to kids than any drag queen. Do you single out all heterosexuals? A couple of recent incidents where the mother killed their own kids , do you disapprove of all mothers? I don't car for S&M floats but they don't represent all or even a majority of gays any more than the proud boy scum represent all Christians. Want to talk grooming? Let's look at all the religious schools and institutions doing a ton of damage to kids and adults alike. And it's certainly more wide spread than all the gays and drag queens ever. I love religion, you can rationalize anything including who best to hate. Bob Hope, Milton Bearle and plenty of others dressed in drag and were seen by kids and no one cared. Spare me your fake concern.
 
So in your view protecting children from groomers is discriminatory. Drag queens reading to small children is fine with you. Biological males/trans “women” in women’s locker rooms is acceptable. Gay rights parades with sado masochists on floats is normal behavior. No lines need to be drawn in your view?
How many kids saw Tootsie or Mrs. Doubtfire? How is that so different than story time by dragqueens
 
So in your view protecting children from groomers is discriminatory. Drag queens reading to small children is fine with you. Biological males/trans “women” in women’s locker rooms is acceptable. Gay rights parades with sado masochists on floats is normal behavior. No lines need to be drawn in your view?
How many groomer and drag queens would you say you have met.? How many times have you run into a biological woman in your locker room? And your town, how many sadomasochists parades do they put on each year? And do you attend tsk-tsk-ing at all those sinful people dressed up so outrageously--"Oh, look at that one. He's so disgusting" And if you haven't actually experienced any of these situations how do you know they are happening. Especially with the frequency you seem to suggest.
 
How many groomer and drag queens would you say you have met.? How many times have you run into a biological woman in your locker room? And your town, how many sadomasochists parades do they put on each year? And do you attend tsk-tsk-ing at all those sinful people dressed up so outrageously--"Oh, look at that one. He's so disgusting" And if you haven't actually experienced any of these situations how do you know they are happening. Especially with the frequency you seem to suggest.
One cake not made for a gay couple is what this dumb thread is about. How many cakes have you baked? Or refused to bake? But you’re calling out the “bigotry” over it.

One drag queen. One bio male in a girls locker room or restroom. One gay rights parade with a sado masochist float is one too many. I live in California part time. Perversion is rampant in the government and it permeates the society. People are calling evil good, and good evil. Just like you.
 
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