Gay Teacher in Texas Wins Court Fight

[CLAX1911]

^^^ Irony

...and yet if someone else wants to live their lives and worship and believe how they choose, the gay agenda will attack them and call them bigots and fascists just for them living and believing how their conscience tells them. Example: forcing a Christian baker to participate in a homosexual wedding ceremony against that individuals personal choice not to be involved on the basis of their religious rights.

I can say that it's wrong to force a business to provide this service to a ceremony they disagree with. Why can't you say it's wrong her teacher to be treated this way?

What you're doing is excusing the behavior of the people you agree with. I told you I would think it would be just as wrong procedure to go through this if she said she was Catholic or Jewish.

I don't know why you're engaging in this whataboutism, it makes you seem like you're at War.

The real tyranny in this country is on the left.

There definitely is some from the far right too.

I would say tyranny is wrong no matter what side of the spectrum it comes from. When you try and pin it all on one side or the other, it kind of comes off is though you support tyranny if you agree with it.

 

[CLAX1911]

That's exactly what offends them. Some of the right would give anything to squelch the defiance and return to the good ole days of gay shame.
What many conservatives want to conserve is the values of a barely-passed era, the values of when their parents were children. They take a picture of a moment and call it the perfect moment and try through legislation to live in that moment forever.

This whole thing started from a complaint from a parent. I am the spouse of an educator. And Evan (my spouse) likes the idea of parental involvement. He says his students benefit the most when parents take an interest in their schooling. However certain people have certain ideas about what is appropriate and what is not. So what is the most important thing here is that if you feel someone is a good teacher regardless of their sexual orientation and something within the school district happens like this, stand up for them. Most of the time people only make a mention of things when there's something that they want to complain about.

Every LGBT teacher and every spouse of an LGBT teacher would absolutely love if you did this. Maybe you never will have to, but when the time comes take the initiative.

Teachers are public servants, the public needs to let them know if they're doing a good job not just if they're doing a bad job.

 

[Grand Mal]

This whole thing started from a complaint from a parent. I am the spouse of an educator. And Evan (my spouse) likes the idea of parental involvement. He says his students benefit the most when parents take an interest in their schooling. However certain people have certain ideas about what is appropriate and what is not. So what is the most important thing here is that if you feel someone is a good teacher regardless of their sexual orientation and something within the school district happens like this, stand up for them. Most of the time people only make a mention of things when there's something that they want to complain about.

Every LGBT teacher and every spouse of an LGBT teacher would absolutely love if you did this. Maybe you never will have to, but when the time comes take the initiative.

Teachers are public servants, the public needs to let them know if they're doing a good job not just if they're doing a bad job.

I have thanked a teacher, one of my son's elementary school teachers. I didn't think to tell the school principal I was doing it though, probably should have.
Like another Canadian poster here I'm little surprised the teacher showed a pic of her spouse to the class. I gather schools here, Canada, operate on a slightly more formal basis. Used to, anyway, it might be common now for teachers to be more friendly. If my curiosity lasts till then I'll ask my son about it re. his son's school next time I talk to him.
My opinion- parochial schools and private schools are designed for those who don't want their kids involved in a society that reflects society at large. Pick one you like.

 

[Court Jester]

A person can be as bigoted as they want on their own time but they must be willing to accept the social consequences of their decision because other people have free speech and equal rights.

I agree, the baker has every right to deny service to someone who is demanding him to violate his own beliefs. The baker didn't say the couple could not get married, or could not be gay. He just said he wasn't interesting in providing a cake to celebrate it because that violated his beliefs.

Do you have a problem with equal service in business and free speech, or do they only apply when you support the goal? Do you support "whites-only" businesses if the bigot claims that his religious beliefs oppose race mixing?

Well, first I think race is different because there is no choice in what race you are--- so that is poor analogy. However that being said, if someone wants to deny service to anyone for whatever reason, I think that ought to be their choice in a business. We aren't talking about government denial of service or equal access.

But let's be honest here: Would the ACLU and the gay agenda even voice a squeak of complaint of a Muslim baker refused to bake a cake that defamed his prophet? It's not like 90% of other bakers wouldn't gladly take the business. Why did they feel the need to turn this into a civil rights claim? They weren't Rosa Parks being denied a seat on a city GOVERNMENT owned bus.

Maybe the Dr in the ER can deny care to a MAGAite because he opposes bigotry, or is that wrong?

What is a "MAGite"? Are you talking about people who voted for Donald Trump?

Maybe a cop, a judge or paramedic who is gay decides not to treat them as equals and ignore their rights because of their bigotry, or is that wrong?

So you are comparing baking a wedding cake to emergency services? No wonder your side isn't taken seriously by adults.

How is baking a cake forcing anyone to participate in a wedding? He wasn't invited to the wedding, he never asked about the couple's religious beliefs and he has yet to show how the cake was offensive.

To his beliefs marriage is considered a holy sacrament. He could not participate in providing a cake for a gay wedding any more than he would be able to provide cake for a Satan's birthday celebration. Doesn't matter how he defines "offensive". Like I said, unless you think a Muslim baker should be compelled to bake a cake that says, "Mohammad is the Devil" then you are just voicing selective outrage.

How can it be offensive top his religious beliefs if the wedding would have been held at a Christian church?

Do you really believe all Christians define what is a "christian church" the same way? Do Baptist believe Mormons are in a "Christian church"? I know Catholics who don't believe that Protestants are "Christians". Bottom line: each is entitled to THEIR BELIEFS and definitions, are they not?

Jesus wasn't a bigot, or did you Sharpie those passages out of your bible?

I'm not making a religious argument, I'm just defending the baker and his individual right to his beliefs.

But since you mention Christianity and the Bible, please show me where it says Jesus demanded anyone forcefully believe as he taught? You can't because it doesn't exist. Maybe in the Koran you'll find passages about forcing conversion, but not in the New Testament (Christian texts). IN FACT, Jesus told his disciples that if anyone would not have them that they should just kick the dust from their shoes and just move on.

"And if anyone will not welcome you or heed your words, shake the dust off your feet when you leave that home or town." (Mathew 10:14)

Do you obey all of Leviticus equally or just the part that align with your beliefs?

Again, I am not making a religious argument, I am making an argument FOR ANYONE to be entitled to their own beliefs--- whether I or anyone else like them or not.

But I have to laugh at the Leviticus thing. What usually follows after that is something about shell fish being as much a sin as same sex relationships. BUT SINCE YOU are attempting (lamely I would say) to make a religious point on the basis of Christianity, then why not quote Romans 1? The part of the Bible that covers Christian beliefs and not Jewish old Testament customs.

I can't see how you can get around what is said in Romans 1... which is probably where the baker's perspective arrives from too. Like him or not, he is entitled to deny service to anyone on the basis of his religious beliefs.

 

[CLAX1911]

I have thanked a teacher, one of my son's elementary school teachers. I didn't think to tell the school principal I was doing it though, probably should have.
Like another Canadian poster here I'm little surprised the teacher showed a pic of her spouse to the class. I gather schools here, Canada, operate on a slightly more formal basis. Used to, anyway, it might be common now for teachers to be more friendly. If my curiosity lasts till then I'll ask my son about it re. his son's school next time I talk to him.
My opinion- parochial schools and private schools are designed for those who don't want their kids involved in a society that reflects society at large. Pick one you like.

I apologize, I didn't mean to say that you should give praise to the administration. Just stand with them if they gave things like this. Educators are at the mercy of the admin and admin is at the mercy of the school district. Most of the time you don't need to do anything. You may never have to do anything. And that's great.

All I meant to say was that the educator is really powerless in this situation. The power... Huge power comes from parents.

They went to fire a teacher because some kook cried about something so innocuous.

I would be very interested to learn the differences between Canadian public schools and those in Texas and the United States.

I remember being a boy and having teachers that took personal interest in me. I think that is the only reason I passed.

My spouse has students he likes and interestingly they aren't always the best pupils. I admire him for that.

 

[Court Jester]

They went to fire a teacher because some kook cried about something so innocuous.

I don't for one minute believe that the teacher wasn't aware that bringing photos to share of the same sex lover wasn't to make a statement to the students. Not that I think that should have meant the teacher should be fired, but why not leave their private life private---- or allow that the fact it is same sex relationship to be revealed more organically.

 

[vegas giants]

I don't for one minute believe that the teacher wasn't aware that bringing photos to share of the same sex lover wasn't to make a statement to the students. Not that I think that should have meant the teacher should be fired, but why not leave their private life private---- or allow that the fact it is same sex relationship to be revealed more organically.

That was organically

 

[dairyair]

None of my teachers in any of my schools showed us pictures of their fiancees, husbands, or wives.

They weren't supposed to bring their personal lives into the classroom. It would have been deeply unprofessional.

In point of fact, I knew very few of my teachers' first names and nothing about their marital status. Students had no business knowing, and teachers had no business discussing it.

While I can't say whether Ms. Bailey was trying to indoctrinate children into acceptance of homosexuality, I can say that any teacher engaging in this kind of unprofessional conduct--homosexual or not--should be censured or fired.

If this kind of thing is now tolerated in schools, that's one more reason to choose private schools with higher standards, or--better still--tutors for homeschooling.

Were you home schooled?

 

[dairyair]

I'm not sure how old you are and so when you went to school but the educational system has developed from the faceless masters beating facts in to children. I was at school in the UK a good 30+ years ago and though there were plenty of teachers who chose to keep their private lives private, there were inevitably some we got to know better (especially form tutors we spend 5 years with and teachers who also ran after-school activities). Even if it wasn’t intentional, they’d mention things in passing that reveal facts just like any other social environment. I’ve known teachers who we’d see picked-up or dropped-off by partners, teachers who were Miss Smith one year and Mrs Jones the next and, in one case, two teachers at a school who were married to each other.

I’d argue that small private schools or home tutors would actually have more scope for the students to learn more about the teachers lives, intentionally or not.

i can't believe that fact was missing from the posters thoughts.

 

[dairyair]

^^^ Irony

...and yet if someone else wants to live their lives and worship and believe how they choose, the gay agenda will attack them and call them bigots and fascists just for them living and believing how their conscience tells them. Example: forcing a Christian baker to participate in a homosexual wedding ceremony against that individuals personal choice not to be involved on the basis of their religious rights.

The real tyranny in this country is on the left.

Religious belief does not allow one to break laws. Simple fact.

 

[CLAX1911]

I don't for one minute believe that the teacher wasn't aware that bringing photos to share of the same sex lover wasn't to make a statement to the students.

That may very well be the case.

However based on the information provided, it doesn't seem to be.

It seems you want to compare this to other incidents that have nothing to do with it based on the involvement of gay or lesbian people. Just because an incident in Oregon involving a lesbian couple and a bakery turned out the way it did doesn't mean that all complaints made by LGBT people are equally ridiculous.

I'm reminded of when people associate bombing of with Christians. just because someone in a certain demographic does something wrong doesn't mean that everyone else who belongs in that demographic are in agreement.

Quit with this gay agenda conspiracy theory. Focus on what's right and wrong, versus what somebody is.

Not that I think that should have meant the teacher should be fired, but why not leave their private life private---- or allow that the fact it is same sex relationship to be revealed more organically.

Marriage, or engagement to become married is not private, it's public, it's done in public, and it is placed on official records. It's done before the justice of the peace or someone who has power vested in them by the Justice of the Peace.

many times people change their names when they get married, I remember as a child teachers getting married and their name changed. That is 100% public.

Abbreviations like Mrs. Miss. Signify whether or not a woman is married. This is a very public statement and it always has been.

 

[calamity]

None of my teachers in any of my schools showed us pictures of their fiancees, husbands, or wives.

They weren't supposed to bring their personal lives into the classroom. It would have been deeply unprofessional.

In point of fact, I knew very few of my teachers' first names and nothing about their marital status. Students had no business knowing, and teachers had no business discussing it.

While I can't say whether Ms. Bailey was trying to indoctrinate children into acceptance of homosexuality, I can say that any teacher engaging in this kind of unprofessional conduct--homosexual or not--should be censured or fired.

If this kind of thing is now tolerated in schools, that's one more reason to choose private schools with higher standards, or--better still--tutors for homeschooling.

I always knew if hot teacher was married or single...clear back to at least 4th grade.

 

[ecofarm]

I always knew if hot teacher was married or single...clear back to at least 4th grade.

As a kid, I didn't care. I was down with OPP.

 

[Nickyjo]

Religious belief does not allow one to break laws. Simple fact.

True. You open a business that is licensed by the state, you put up a sign saying come in, local police (even gay cops) protect you, therefore you serve all the public that pay taxes. You dont have to change your sexual orientation; they’re not even asking you to watch. Trust me, the pain of doing the right thing won’t last long.

And what if it had been a white-black straight couple?

 

[Court Jester]

That may very well be the case.

However based on the information provided, it doesn't seem to be.

It seems you want to compare this to other incidents that have nothing to do with it based on the involvement of gay or lesbian people. Just because an incident in Oregon involving a lesbian couple and a bakery turned out the way it did doesn't mean that all complaints made by LGBT people are equally ridiculous.

I'm reminded of when people associate bombing of with Christians. just because someone in a certain demographic does something wrong doesn't mean that everyone else who belongs in that demographic are in agreement.

Quit with this gay agenda conspiracy theory. Focus on what's right and wrong, versus what somebody is.

My opinion of what the teacher did is not if it was right or wrong--- just that it seems curious. If anyone would be conscious of possible ramifications of disclosing personal information about oneself and their same sex partnership, you would think it would be a school teacher in a Texas public school.

When I worked at a very liberal company, with lots of liberal co-workers, I was very careful not to reveal any personal information about myself, my beliefs, or my politics. Not that I don't think I didn't have the right to do so; but because to what end? To make a point and be a martyr?

Work is supposed to be about WORK, not pushing your beliefs or agendas on other people.... and especially not students.

Marriage, or engagement to become married is not private, it's public, it's done in public, and it is placed on official records. It's done before the justice of the peace or someone who has power vested in them by the Justice of the Peace.

many times people change their names when they get married, I remember as a child teachers getting married and their name changed. That is 100% public

And if it happened that way then who could be second guessed for it? I don't believe what the teacher did here.

Abbreviations like Mrs. Miss. Signify whether or not a woman is married. This is a very public statement and it always has been.

And what if the teacher is male, how would a student know he was married to another man unless the teacher told the students, or they learned about the relationship aside from him telling them? I believe some parents are naturally on guard and suspicious of the gay agenda due to so much being FORCED upon their children in many public schools. School should be about the three Rs not about pushing social agendas. You called the parent a "kook". Could be it is just a parent fed up with what they may feel is a barrage of new cultural agendas being forced on their child and their family?

 

[CLAX1911]

My opinion of what the teacher did is not if it was right or wrong--- just that it seems curious.

Is it only curious because she showed a picture of her fiance that was the same sex as her? I'm thinking so because I'm the first post I responded to you you mentioned a gay agenda.

If anyone would be conscious of possible ramifications of disclosing personal information about oneself and their same sex partnership, you would think it would be a school teacher in a Texas public school.

Once again if you are engaged that means you will soon be married. Marriage is public information not private

When I worked at a very liberal company, with lots of liberal co-workers, I was very careful not to reveal any personal information about myself, my beliefs, or my politics. Not that I don't think I didn't have the right to do so; but because to what end? To make a point and be a martyr?

Good, your politics is personal information and not public record. Who you are married to is public information.

Work is supposed to be about WORK, not pushing your beliefs or agendas on other people.... and especially not students.

Again, you have nothing to support your belief that this was about any agendas. You seem to be jumping to that conclusion.

And if it happened that way then who could be second guessed for it? I don't believe what the teacher did here.

Your complaint seems to be based entirely on her partner's sex. You assume some form of activism that I hold back judgement on. You are free to make that assumption.

And what if the teacher is male, how would a student know he was married to another man unless the teacher told the students, or they learned about the relationship aside from him telling them?

public record. Marriages are public.

I believe some parents are naturally on guard and suspicious of the gay agenda due to so much being FORCED upon their children in many public schools.

I'm sorry if the existence of a gay person in your proximity equates to the gay agenda you are probably overly paranoid.

School should be about the three Rs not about pushing social agendas. You called the parent a "kook". Could be it is just a parent fed up with what they may feel is a barrage of new cultural agendas being forced on their child and their family?

I call the parent of kook because it was one. There were no parents fed up with whatever blah blah blah. There was one person with a bone to pick. If this person can't let their kid exist in the world as it is that is heart problem, open society shouldn't be forced to acquiesce. I'm frankly getting really tired of social justice warriors.

it's more likely this parent is a social justice warrior. Doesn't want any homos around their kids. if that's the case public school is probably a bad option for them.

 

[CLAX1911]

True. You open a business that is licensed by the state, you put up a sign saying come in, local police (even gay cops) protect you, therefore you serve all the public that pay taxes. You dont have to change your sexual orientation; they’re not even asking you to watch. Trust me, the pain of doing the right thing won’t last long.

And what if it had been a white-black straight couple?

No I'm sorry you don't go into business like a bakery to serve the public. If you serve the public your teacher or a police officer or a social worker. You going to business like baking to make money, and you do that by serving your clientele. Just like the consumer should have the right to decide who they are the clientele of the owner of the business should be allowed to decide who their clientele is. That's not public service.

Being open to the public does not mean you serve the public.

 

[Integrityrespec]

None of my teachers in any of my schools showed us pictures of their fiancees, husbands, or wives.

They weren't supposed to bring their personal lives into the classroom. It would have been deeply unprofessional.

In point of fact, I knew very few of my teachers' first names and nothing about their marital status. Students had no business knowing, and teachers had no business discussing it.

While I can't say whether Ms. Bailey was trying to indoctrinate children into acceptance of homosexuality, I can say that any teacher engaging in this kind of unprofessional conduct--homosexual or not--should be censured or fired.

If this kind of thing is now tolerated in schools, that's one more reason to choose private schools with higher standards, or--better still--tutors for homeschooling.

First let me say I am not a supporter of any gay lifestyle. That said, the question here is civil rights and professional conduct. Times have changed since teachers/students had no real personal interaction. In fact it is pretty much encouraged these days. "Get to know your students, their interest, etc" I have seen plenty of "family" pictures on teachers desks and bookshelves. So schools cannot encourage interaction on the one hand and them condemn it on the other. I would hope that in cases of controversial issues that teachers would choose their words cautiously and try to avoid issues that parents may be very opinionated over. Religion, abortion, politics, gay marriage, these things bring strong reactions and how to approach them in a classroom is very difficult. The answer is to avoid as much controversy as possible. School districts are in a touchy position because parents often don't want teachers breaching some of these issues.

 

[joko104]

What class does the teacher teach where the lesson plan is teaching about her personal romantic life?

 

[CLAX1911]

What class does the teacher teach where the lesson plan is teaching about her personal romantic life?

She said nothing about her personal romantic life. She mentioned a fiance. I remember having teachers that mention to their husbands and wives and fiance's. There's nothing sordid about it.

 

[joko104]

She said nothing about her personal romantic life. She mentioned a fiance. I remember having teachers that mention to their husbands and wives and fiance's. There's nothing sordid about it.

Did I say there was anything sordid about it?

This is what the article says:

"The two-time teacher of the year was giving a welcome back to school presentation in August 2017 to her class when she showed a photo of her and her then-fiancee dressed as characters from the movie "Finding Nemo," according to court documents obtained by CNN."

So where's the picture?

 

[CLAX1911]

First let me say I am not a supporter of any gay lifestyle. That said, the question here is civil rights and professional conduct. Times have changed since teachers/students had no real personal interaction. In fact it is pretty much encouraged these days. "Get to know your students, their interest, etc" I have seen plenty of "family" pictures on teachers desks and bookshelves. So schools cannot encourage interaction on the one hand and them condemn it on the other. I would hope that in cases of controversial issues that teachers would choose their words cautiously and try to avoid issues that parents may be very opinionated over. Religion, abortion, politics, gay marriage, these things bring strong reactions and how to approach them in a classroom is very difficult. The answer is to avoid as much controversy as possible. School districts are in a touchy position because parents often don't want teachers breaching some of these issues.

avoiding controversy is what leads to their being safe spaces in college. We've tried it that way long enough and we've got a group of adults coming into the world that are utter wimps. This is where our military or police draw their personnel from.

I'm not a fan of social justice warriors I don't care if they fall more on the left or right side of things. If you can't tolerate the fact that other people exist and you are the problem and you should be treated that way.

And in this case it seems like one person complained.

 

[CLAX1911]

Did I say there was anything sordid about it?

you asked about her teaching about her personal romantic life. Mentioning that you have a fiance is not teaching about your personal romantic life.

Many of my teachers mentioned to their husbands or wives. Or that they got married over the summer. That isn't teaching about your personal or romantic life.

 

[joko104]

avoiding controversy is what leads to their being safe spaces in college. We've tried it that way long enough and we've got a group of adults coming into the world that are utter wimps. This is where our military or police draw their personnel from.

I'm not a fan of social justice warriors I don't care if they fall more on the left or right side of things. If you can't tolerate the fact that other people exist and you are the problem and you should be treated that way.

And in this case it seems like one person complained.

Because the picture the teacher showed the class of her and her fiance dressed in costumes, we don't know exactly why she was laid off, do we? No, certainly do not think a teacher should be fired for being gay.

 

[CLAX1911]

Because the picture the teacher showed the class of her and her fiance dressed in costumes, we don't know exactly why she was laid off, do we? No, certainly do not think a teacher should be fired for being gay.

Showing a class a picture of you and your fiance is not teaching about your personal romantic life.

It is likely that why. There was a $100,000 settlement with the teacher.