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Gay conversion brainwashing

CLAX1911 said:
I agree with you I don't have a problem with people seeking out the sort of therapy I don't think it should be made illegal for adults but until it's proven to be effective at least in a percent I don't think it should be performed on children. Further I do reserve the right to ridicule it as nonsense and try and convince people then it's bologna regardless of whether or not someone has the right to seek it out. Just like hypnotism or other various forms of quackery that seem to be all the rage these days.
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There's a lot of trendy stuff I am not at all convinced that it will work. At least until it does. I just believe in giving something a chance and not presuming to always know what is best for somebody else. Or sometimes even ourselves.

For instance a friend of ours had a terrible large spreading cancer on his ear and the only hope the doctors offered him was to amputate the ear. He rejected that option and instead, strongly against medical advice, opted to heal it holistically with the Budwig protocol which is generally identified as an 'unproven theory.' Unproven or not, within six months those same onocologists pronounced him cancer free and whatever he was doing, keep it up. That was five years ago and he is still cancer free. I witnessed that with my own eyes.

So my philosophy is that if it isn't obviously harmful and somebody wants to try it, let them.
 
Superfly said:
Yeah, true. There's also no reliable evidence that lawnmower man's neighbor's son is not still gay. He's just back in the closet now, to make his family happy.

It's sad, really.
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It is sad because it illustrates that there are so many conservatives who, despite their pretense of being open and honest would still be celebrating more discrimination against LGBT.

I believe deeply in conversion therapy. Let's free all those locked up by their religious chains. They could have girl friends and boy friends or even one of both and, dare I say it, shhhhhhhhhhhh - go to parties.
 
AlbqOwl said:
There's a lot of trendy stuff I am not at all convinced that it will work. At least until it does. I just believe in giving something a chance and not presuming to always know what is best for somebody else. Or sometimes even ourselves.
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yeah I get that.

With conversion therapy the list of people who it didn't help it seems to be much much much longer then the list of people that did. I think my criticisms of it are fair and based on facts.

For instance a friend of ours had a terrible large spreading cancer on his ear and the only hope the doctors offered him was to amputate the ear. He rejected that option and instead, strongly against medical advice, opted to heal it holistically with the Budwig protocol which is generally identified as an 'unproven theory.' Unproven or not, within six months those same onocologists pronounced him cancer free and whatever he was doing, keep it up. That was five years ago and he is still cancer free. I witnessed that with my own eyes.

So my philosophy is that if it isn't obviously harmful and somebody wants to try it, let them.
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It's one thing if something is unproven it's another when there's evidence stacked up against it. Conversion therapy seems to be more harmful than helpful.

That being said I classify it into the realm of Faith healing and we really shouldn't interfere with that unless it becomes abusive
 
CLAX1911 said:
sex is anatomy, gender is ones expression of their sex. They are deeply biologically and culturally tied to one another, but we have defined gender to mean something different than sex.
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I'm not part of that "we".
Sex is male or female,this can be established by a wide spreading of the legs,and examination of the groin.
Gender is after establishing the sex parts of the groin,you will find if it is male or female gender.
Now there are masculine females and feminine men.
But that doesn't change gender,it just means the masculine women still has that vagina.
And the feminine man still has that penis,testicles,and prostate gland.
 
CLAX1911 said:
yeah I get that.

With conversion therapy the list of people who it didn't help it seems to be much much much longer then the list of people that did. I think my criticisms of it are fair and based on facts.



It's one thing if something is unproven it's another when there's evidence stacked up against it. Conversion therapy seems to be more harmful than helpful.

That being said I classify it into the realm of Faith healing and we really shouldn't interfere with that unless it becomes abusive
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Conversion therapy has nothing to do with faith healing.
Conversion therapy is more in line with homophobia and smoke and mirrors.
 
Mizzy22 said:
I'm not part of that "we".
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I know this is getting a little persnickety but what I meant when I said we is people that speak English and accept the terms of English and common parlance. So you reject the common parlance of the word gender?


Sex is male or female,this can be established by a wide spreading of the legs,and examination of the groin.
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but I would say sex can be determined particularly in adults without even removing clothing in most cases.
Gender is after establishing the sex parts of the groin,you will find if it is male or female gender.
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so now I'm confused you said male and female is sex and it is determined by Anatomy. If you're making the claim that gender and sex are synonyms I agree with you that can be used that way but they can be used in a way other than synonyms.
Now there are masculine females and feminine men.
But that doesn't change gender,it just means the masculine women still has that vagina.
And the feminine man still has that penis,testicles,and prostate gland.
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Okay again I'm still confused are you suggesting that gender and sex are synonyms and they can't be used any other way?

Because that I disagree with gender describes how we express what sex we are and yes this is done through Anatomy it is done through other biological cues. There is a cultural component that is important we call them gender roles certainly believe gender roles for the most part are connected to sex but to say that that is strictly sex and it's completely unconnected from gender I find to be ridiculous that being said the concept that things like gender roles are based entirely on sex I find the equally ridiculous
 
CLAX1911 said:
I know this is getting a little persnickety but what I meant when I said we is people that speak English and accept the terms of English and common parlance. So you reject the common parlance of the word gender?


but I would say sex can be determined particularly in adults without even removing clothing in most cases.
so now I'm confused you said male and female is sex and it is determined by Anatomy. If you're making the claim that gender and sex are synonyms I agree with you that can be used that way but they can be used in a way other than synonyms.

Okay again I'm still confused are you suggesting that gender and sex are synonyms and they can't be used any other way?

Because that I disagree with gender describes how we express what sex we are and yes this is done through Anatomy it is done through other biological cues. There is a cultural component that is important we call them gender roles certainly believe gender roles for the most part are connected to sex but to say that that is strictly sex and it's completely unconnected from gender I find to be ridiculous that being said the concept that things like gender roles are based entirely on sex I find the equally ridiculous
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Sex and gender are one and the same you can't change that!
Sure you can mutilate your body take hormones,but that just means you're a mutilate form of what you started as.
Bruce Jenner is still Bruce Jenner,Caitlin Jenner is a illusion!And a good example of what a Kardashian woman can do to a man.
 
CLAX1911 said:
I know this is getting a little persnickety but what I meant when I said we is people that speak English and accept the terms of English and common parlance. So you reject the common parlance of the word gender?


but I would say sex can be determined particularly in adults without even removing clothing in most cases.
so now I'm confused you said male and female is sex and it is determined by Anatomy. If you're making the claim that gender and sex are synonyms I agree with you that can be used that way but they can be used in a way other than synonyms.

Okay again I'm still confused are you suggesting that gender and sex are synonyms and they can't be used any other way?

Because that I disagree with gender describes how we express what sex we are and yes this is done through Anatomy it is done through other biological cues. There is a cultural component that is important we call them gender roles certainly believe gender roles for the most part are connected to sex but to say that that is strictly sex and it's completely unconnected from gender I find to be ridiculous that being said the concept that things like gender roles are based entirely on sex I find the equally ridiculous
Click to expand...

Sex and gender are one and the same you can't change that!
Sure you can mutilate your body take hormones,but that just means you're a mutilate form of what you started as.
Bruce Jenner is still Bruce Jenner,Caitlin Jenner is a illusion!And a good example of what a Kardashian woman can do to a man.
 
TheGoverness said:
Conversion therapy for minors should be outlawed. For adults, if someone wants to go through that kind of process, let them.
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I attempted the conversion process by marrying a woman, it did not work out so well. In the end I hurt those closest to me. If one wants to be something they are not genetically programmed to be, its there choice, as it was mine. It took me 30 years to figure it out, and lots of money spent in analysis.
 
camlok said:
It is sad because it illustrates that there are so many conservatives who, despite their pretense of being open and honest would still be celebrating more discrimination against LGBT.

I believe deeply in conversion therapy. Let's free all those locked up by their religious chains. They could have girl friends and boy friends or even one of both and, dare I say it, shhhhhhhhhhhh - go to parties.
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You can't escape what you are,if you're gay your gay,you can take conversion therapy,pretend for awhile you're straight,but in the dark of night,when you're by yourself,those suppressed feelings will creep back,sooner or later.
 
Mizzy22 said:
Sex and gender are one and the same you can't change that!
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I am going to argue that because they're not always synonyms.
Sure you can mutilate your body take hormones,but that just means you're a mutilate form of what you started as.
Bruce Jenner is still Bruce Jenner,Caitlin Jenner is a illusion!And a good example of what a Kardashian woman can do to a man.
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Transgenderism is really irrelevant to what I'm trying to say.
 
Mizzy22 said:
I'm not part of that "we".
Sex is male or female,this can be established by a wide spreading of the legs,and examination of the groin.
Gender is after establishing the sex parts of the groin,you will find if it is male or female gender.
Now there are masculine females and feminine men.
But that doesn't change gender,it just means the masculine women still has that vagina.
And the feminine man still has that penis,testicles,and prostate gland.
Click to expand...

no matter how many times you repeat that it will not be accurate. Facts and definitions disagree with you. :shrug:
 
jmotivator said:
And who are you to tell someone else what therapy they can get for their child? It's really none of your business.
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So parents should be allowed to have trepanning done on their child?

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late said:
He's still gay.

And now he has a new set of problems to deal with.

The premise is absurd.
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Not necessarily. There are actual cases where kids would think they are gay or trans, due to other conflicts within them. Now for this, basic therapy and proper diagnosis will show that they are not, but some will view it as "conversation therapy".

I want to think it is Clax who is the one that works with a lot of trans. Whoever it is had once posted where he went to diagnose a teen for transgenderism, and the kid ended up.not really being trans.

While most who figure out they are gay or trans are usually right, it is possible to error on the self diagnosis.

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late said:
Thanks, that was the first smile of my day.

He's gay.

It's not something we know how to change. This is biology, not Psych.

He's faking it, or he's bi. Although if he was bi, he should have been able to avoid this mess.
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We all have that first love and can get pretty fixated as young teens. Assuming bi, the first person to grab his attention in that manner may have been male and he just assumed he was only gay at first. And now that he's been turned on to females, he fixating in the opposite direction.

Sent from my Z982 using Tapatalk
 
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