Fry tells it like it is.

[Declan]

I don't believe it, where did you get that idea from?

You. You said the others had a point.

 

[polgara]

You are learning to play the clarinet. I know musicians that play well, and those that play rather poorly - but they all play. That's not the same thing as the either/or proposition you offer in the OP. Either God eliminates all disease and affliction, or He's not a loving God, but a vengeful and capricious one in your estimation. That conveniently eliminates man from any responsibility or effort to use the tools at his disposal, and the use of reason is chief among those tools.

:agree: By adhering to his teachings, such as those in the Ten Commandments as an example, we are being obedient. There is nothing harmful to us in those rules. We have the choice, much as a child does when he is told something by his parents or other authority figure. You don't have to obey, but there is punishment for not doing so. That is not being vengeful or capricious on the part of authority. . .it's a teaching tool, IMO. We were also given a brain to find cures for disease and other afflictions, and it's left for us to do so, since we do have free will. If we learn some day that there is life on other planets in the galaxy, it will be interesting to learn if the rules, and punishment for not obeying those rules, were universally applied to all creation in the universe.

 

[humbolt]

:agree: By adhering to his teachings, such as those in the Ten Commandments as an example, we are being obedient. There is nothing harmful to us in those rules. We have the choice, much as a child does when he is told something by his parents or other authority figure. You don't have to obey, but there is punishment for not doing so. That is not being vengeful or capricious on the part of authority. . .it's a teaching tool, IMO. We were also given a brain to find cures for disease and other afflictions, and it's left for us to do so, since we do have free will. If we learn some day that there is life on other planets in the galaxy, it will be interesting to learn if the rules, and punishment for not obeying those rules, were universally applied to all creation in the universe.

Yep. Humans require challenges in order to advance and flourish. Learning and the application of reason are a major part of the effort.

 

[the_recruit]

Anybody can criticize. What are your comments concerning his main points, like bone cancer in children?

God works in mysterious ways, brah. :roll:

 

[the_recruit]

Yep. Humans require challenges in order to advance and flourish. Learning and the application of reason are a major part of the effort.

Here, give me your face. I'm going to bash it with a sledge hammer. Y'know, to give you a "challenge" so you can "advance and flourish". :roll:


What a steaming pile of horse****.

 

[polgara]

Yep. Humans require challenges in order to advance and flourish. Learning and the application of reason are a major part of the effort.

I believe that early humans had it much, much tougher than we do today, in that they had to learn everything from scratch, even to finding what foods were even edible! Since they migrated from time to time, that could not have been easy to do in a new locale! The discovery that fire was a useful tool had to be one of the most important lessons they ever learned, IMO, since that gave them the ability not only to cook foods, but also a means of keeping warm. Not being flip about a serious subject, but we really do like BBQ, and we thank whoever found that it tasted mighty good! And we also thank the first person who accidently left a basket of grains out in the rain - we now have beer and other alcoholic drinks to go with that BBQ! :lol: If humans are still on a learning curve, imagine what life might be like thousands of years from now . . .assuming we aren't stupid enough to destroy our planet and ourselves first! :shock:

 

[humbolt]

Here, give me your face. I'm going to bash it with a sledge hammer. Y'know, to give you a "challenge" so you can "advance and flourish". :roll:


What a steaming pile of horse****.

History says otherwise. And you look about in the same in horse**** as you would otherwise, I'm sure.

 

[lizzie]

Here, give me your face. I'm going to bash it with a sledge hammer. Y'know, to give you a "challenge" so you can "advance and flourish". :roll:


What a steaming pile of horse****.

Surely you are kidding. A steaming pile of horse****? Humans DO need challenges. It's what makes us evolve. This is pretty elementary stuff here.

 

[the_recruit]

History says otherwise. And you look about in the same in horse**** as you would otherwise, I'm sure.

Come here, then. Let's make you flourish.

 

[the_recruit]

Surely you are kidding. A steaming pile of horse****? Humans DO need challenges. It's what makes us evolve. This is pretty elementary stuff here.

Children born with horrible genetic diseases who know nothing but suffering before they die is not a challenge.

It's sadism.

 

[humbolt]

Come here, then. Let's make you flourish.

Oh. Now you require others. History has it's exceptions. You would be one of them.

 

[lizzie]

Christians tell us that god loves us all, I can only go by what they say.

When did you start believing Christians?

 

[lizzie]

Children born with horrible genetic diseases who know nothing but suffering before they die is not a challenge.

It's sadism.

Why would you believe there is any reason for "God" to have a preference regarding human suffering, or that God cares either way? Or is it just your aim to ridicule and shame Christians?
If there is a God, it is my belief that it doesn't work with purpose, but rather just exists as a motivating and creative energy. What we do with that energy is what matters. The individual, with whatever problems he or she may have, is insignificant. I am insignificant, as are you. No God owes me anything whatsoever.

 

[the_recruit]

Why would you believe there is any reason for "God" to have a preference regarding human suffering, or that God cares either way?

Any being that doesn't give two ****s about causing terrible suffering can go **** himself as far as I'm concerned. Such a being will get no worship from me.

Or is it just your aim to ridicule and shame Christians?

Not at all. I don't have a problem at all with people who find meaning in religion, tbh. I certainly don't go out of my way to make such people feel bad. But in a discussion of the matter, such as thread, I won't hesitate to speak my mind. If Christians are offended by the kind of criticisms leveled here, I'd suggest they don't bother reading these kinds of threads at all.

If there is a God, it is my belief that it doesn't work with purpose, but rather just exists as a motivating and creative energy. What we do with that energy is what matters. The individual, with whatever problems he or she may have, is insignificant. I am insignificant, as are you. No God owes me anything whatsoever.

Sure, believe what you want. I would disagree. I don't think people's suffering is insignificant. I believe it is significant. And that it ought not happen. And that a God capable of intervening who sits idly by while it happens is a sadistic asshole not worthy of being called "God".

 

[lizzie]

Any being that doesn't give two ****s about causing terrible suffering can go **** himself as far as I'm concerned. Such a being will get no worship from me.

Guess it's a good thing that your religious practices make no difference to me. Why would you think that God causes suffering?

 

[zyzygy]

Children born with horrible genetic diseases who know nothing but suffering before they die is not a challenge.

It's sadism.

Children could do without challenges like that. I wonder why god does it?

 

[zyzygy]

You'd think a dude who could construct a star with his bear hands wouldn't be so offended by butt sex.

He's a touchy bugger.

 

[zyzygy]

When did you start believing Christians?

My point was that they believe it, despite all evidence to the contrary.

 

[zyzygy]

Guess it's a good thing that your religious practices make no difference to me. Why would you think that God causes suffering?

You are not familiar with the various christian doctrines? Or the bible? God causes quite a bit of suffereing in the OT.

 

[the_recruit]

Why would you think that God causes suffering?

I don't think God causes anything. God doesn't exist.

I'm talking about a concept of God that causes the world to be as it is. A being that has, y'know, God-like powers. Has the ability to intervene. Is making the world unfold as part of some master plan. Etc etc.

If you're talking about a being that doesn't have such an ability, I wouldn't call it "God". Then it's just another being. An alien. You can call it whatever you like. But it's not the type of being that I've been talking about.

 

[Paxaeon]

`
I would say to Stephen Fry that his synopsis of a god holds true ONLY if one believes in the Abrahamic version of God is the only accepted version. Now I'm a deist insofar that I believe some sort of supreme divinity exists but not in the temporal sense. What it is, I don't know.

 

[beefheart]

Re: Fry is a fool.

Psalms 53:1: “The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.”

 

[Bob Blaylock]

The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

So if we get rid of God then we get rid of everything that hurts us?

The man is a moron.

You are learning to play the clarinet. I know musicians that play well, and those that play rather poorly - but they all play. That's not the same thing as the either/or proposition you offer in the OP. Either God eliminates all disease and affliction, or He's not a loving God, but a vengeful and capricious one in your estimation. That conveniently eliminates man from any responsibility or effort to use the tools at his disposal, and the use of reason is chief among those tools.

:agree: By adhering to his teachings, such as those in the Ten Commandments as an example, we are being obedient. There is nothing harmful to us in those rules. We have the choice, much as a child does when he is told something by his parents or other authority figure. You don't have to obey, but there is punishment for not doing so. That is not being vengeful or capricious on the part of authority. . .it's a teaching tool, IMO. We were also given a brain to find cures for disease and other afflictions, and it's left for us to do so, since we do have free will. If we learn some day that there is life on other planets in the galaxy, it will be interesting to learn if the rules, and punishment for not obeying those rules, were universally applied to all creation in the universe.

It's almost certainly not fair to paint all atheists with this brush, but it is quite noticeable that the atheists who have most loudly spoken up in this thread, and Mr. Fry himself, are individuals who willfully and knowingly defend—or even engage in—immoral conduct, and seek to deny the wickedness of their conduct by trying to deny the authority that is most recognized as condemning this evil behavior. They hate any authority that will not condone their wickedness.

 

[zyzygy]

Re: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.

It's almost certainly not fair to paint all atheists with this brush, but it is quite noticeable that the atheists who have most loudly spoken up in this thread, and Mr. Fry himself, are individuals who willfully and knowingly defend—or even engage in—immoral conduct, and seek to deny the wickedness of their conduct by trying to deny the authority that is most recognized as condemning this evil behavior. They hate any authority that will not condone their wickedness.

So you're a gay basher. Pathetic.Hetero couples engage in anal sex too, and not all gays indulge themselves in anal sex. Mr. Fry's sexual orientation has no bearing on the matter. I am hetero and I agree with every word he said. Stop revealing your predjudices and address the question. Why does god inflict such suffering on children?

 

[humbolt]

Re: The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.


One one hand you reject God's existence, and on the other you attribute Him with powers you claim He uses to our detriment. If God doesn't exist, then there must be another cause for suffering. Which is it?