From the Guardian - "The surprising factors driving murder rates"

[Lafayette]

From here: The surprising factors driving murder rates: income inequality and respect

Excerpt:

A 17-year-old boy shoots a 15-year-old stranger to death, apparently believing that the victim had given him a dirty look. A Chicago man stabs his stepfather in a fight over whether his entry into his parents’ house without knocking was disrespectful. A San Francisco UPS employee guns down three of his co-workers, then turns his weapon on himself, seemingly as a response to minor slights.

These killings may seem unrelated – but they are only a few recent examples of the kind of crime that demonstrates a surprising link between homicide and inequality.

While on the surface, the disputes that triggered these deaths seem trivial – each involved apparently small disagreements and a sense of being seen as inferior and unworthy of respect – research suggests that inequality raises the stakes of fights for status among men.

The connection is so strong that, according to the World Bank, a simple measure of inequality predicts about half of the variance in murder rates between American states and between countries around the world. When inequality is high and strips large numbers of men of the usual markers of status – like a good job and the ability to support a family – matters of respect and disrespect loom disproportionately.

America will remain one of the most unsafest places on earth to live for as long as there is no effective control on guns. Can't be done?

Then we live and die as a result of the consequences. As a nation, we should know better ...

 

[Rucker61]

Then we live and die as a result of the consequences. As a nation, we should know better ...

Define "effective control on guns".

 

[Bum]

So......fragile ego and thin skin.

 

[TurtleDude]

From here: The surprising factors driving murder rates: income inequality and respect

Excerpt:


America will remain one of the most unsafest places on earth to live for as long as there is no effective control on guns. Can't be done?

Then we live and die as a result of the consequences. As a nation, we should know better ...

that's inaccurate. the vast majority of the USA is very safe and most of the really dangerous places are in areas where there is lots of anti gun laws. If you aren't a drug dealer and you don't shack up with or deal with drug dealers, your chances of being murdered are rather low. 80% or MORE of the murders in the USA involve FELONS killing other felons. and we had less gun laws and plenty of inequality in the past and less gun violence though since 1994, that rate is decreasing even as we have added 40 million more firearms (mainly SEMI AUTOMATIC MAGAZINE FED firearms) and given millions of lawful Americans the ability to legally carry firearms on our streets

 

[Ahlevah]

Inequality? What the **** is he talking about? What is the "simple measure of inequality"?

 

[NonoBadDog]

From here: The surprising factors driving murder rates: income inequality and respect

Excerpt:


America will remain one of the most unsafest places on earth to live for as long as there is no effective control on guns. Can't be done?

Then we live and die as a result of the consequences. As a nation, we should know better ...

Say out of Chicago then. It is a Democrat run city with some of the strictest gun control laws with the highest murder rate in the country. Who wudda thunk it? Kinda like Baltimore on steroids.

Almost every person in the area where I live has multiple guns, even liberals. We have a very low crime rate per capita because we all have guns.

 

[Lafayette]

THERE IS NO FINALITY MORE AWFUL THAN GUN DEATHS

Say out of Chicago then. It is a Democrat run city with some of the strictest gun control laws with the highest murder rate in the country. Who wudda thunk it? Kinda like Baltimore on steroids.

Almost every person in the area where I live has multiple guns, even liberals. We have a very low crime rate per capita because we all have guns.

Oh, come off it. This is just the sort of mental blindness that is causing the high firearms death-rate in the US.

Myopia becomes you so well. Tantamount to "for as long as it aint happenin in MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I don't give a damn!"

Some people really 'n truly have to be in the middle of crossfire before they will understand the real danger of firearm death. Which is due to ignorance of the statistical facts. So, here's the bad news (from here):

Gun Violence is a Leading Cause of Death in America

Many people in America think "there's nothing we can do about it". And yet, a simple law stating that you can own a gun but you cannot carry it with you in public without a permit could do wonders. And all non automatic firearm carried by unauthorized individuals (allowing police) either publicly or within the home and without a permit will be confiscated. Then, make sure permits are not given to any automatic-arms whatsoever.

Allow them to be "rented" at a gun-range purely for amusement but never held personally nor in public nor in any residence.Nobody needs a machine-gun to protect themselves in their own homes!)

Look at the probability chart above. How many of the incidences are "public-related" up to and including that of "assault by gun"? Only five or six out of a total of 15. All the rest (9) are death-causes of a personal nature. Suicide is one cause-of-death by firearm is higher than any public-related means of death, but there is nothing legal a nation can do about suicide.

YES-WE-CAN keep machine-guns off the streets (by confiscating them on-sight or if found out-of-sight). There are three Federal Gun Laws including one signed by Clinton, but none have been able to stop the widespread use of automatic assault weapons to kill innocent people.

LOOKING FOR A LOWER RATE OF GUN-DEATHS?

Well you wont find it in Mexico - see here: List of countries by firearm-related death rate

On an international scale the US has a higher rate of homicidal death than the most comparable other states (those of the European Union. The US homicidal death-rate is at 3.60 per 100K (of population) and then the rates drop suddenly below 1.05 for all other European countries.

Those odds - 3.6 to 1 - are impressive. Which is just yet another reason that this American is living in Europe ...

 

[Lafayette]

that's inaccurate. the vast majority of the USA is very safe and most of the really dangerous places are in areas where there is lots of anti gun laws.

The stats show otherwise, which is why I have posted them here in this forum.

Your chances of dieing a gun-death in the US is (at least, if not more) 3.6 times that of mine anywhere in Europe ...

 

[Port & Starboard]

THERE IS NO FINALITY MORE AWFUL THAN GUN DEATHS



Oh, come off it. This is just the sort of mental blindness that is causing the high firearms death-rate in the US.

Myopia becomes you so well. Tantamount to "for as long as it aint happenin in MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I don't give a damn!"

Some people really 'n truly have to be in the middle of crossfire before they will understand the real danger of firearm death. Which is due to ignorance of the statistical facts. So, here's the bad news (from here):

Gun Violence is a Leading Cause of Death in America

Many people in America think "there's nothing we can do about it". And yet, a simple law stating that you can own a gun but you cannot carry it with you in public without a permit could do wonders. And all non automatic firearm carried by unauthorized individuals (allowing police) either publicly or within the home and without a permit will be confiscated. Then, make sure permits are not given to any automatic-arms whatsoever.

Allow them to be "rented" at a gun-range purely for amusement but never held personally nor in public nor in any residence.Nobody needs a machine-gun to protect themselves in their own homes!)

Look at the probability chart above. How many of the incidences are "public-related" up to and including that of "assault by gun"? Only five or six out of a total of 15. All the rest (9) are death-causes of a personal nature. Suicide is one cause-of-death by firearm is higher than any public-related means of death, but there is nothing legal a nation can do about suicide.

YES-WE-CAN keep machine-guns off the streets (by confiscating them on-sight or if found out-of-sight). There are three Federal Gun Laws including one signed by Clinton, but none have been able to stop the widespread use of automatic assault weapons to kill innocent people.

LOOKING FOR A LOWER RATE OF GUN-DEATHS?

Well you wont find it in Mexico - see here: List of countries by firearm-related death rate

On an international scale the US has a higher rate of homicidal death than the most comparable other states (those of the European Union. The US homicidal death-rate is at 3.60 per 100K (of population) and then the rates drop suddenly below 1.05 for all other European countries.

Those odds - 3.6 to 1 - are impressive. Which is just yet another reason that this American is living in Europe ...

So sorry to see that you lived in so much fear in the US.

So, exactly how many automatic weapons have been used in mass murders lately in the USA?

 

[Lafayette]

Define "effective control on guns".

I have in another post on this forum with a detailed list of gun-death probabilities.

But, lets compare apples-to-apples. For me, a US rate-of-gun-deaths (per 100K of population) that is 3.6 times mine here in Europe demonstrates how Europe has an "effective control of guns".

And farmers in the region where I live here in France are always (during hunting season) in the fields just below my window. Never ever one gun-firing casualty in either the town or the state in which I live. And nobody shows their machine-guns because they would be confiscated by the police.

(Which does not mean there aren't any AK-47s around employed to rob banks, because there are. Only the police are authorized to carry armed-and-loaded machine guns.

 

[Bum]

YES-WE-CAN keep machine-guns off the streets (by confiscating them on-sight or if found out-of-sight). There are three Federal Gun Laws including one signed by Clinton, but none have been able to stop the widespread use of automatic assault weapons to kill innocent people.

Oh, this I have to hear.

Please do support this statement with something other than your personal belief......do you have any notion as to how many fully automatic weapons are actually used in crimes?

And please don't bother to conflate the scary "assault weapon" label with a semi automatic firearm....there is a distinction between automatic and semi automatic.

 

[Port & Starboard]

Oh, this I have to hear.

Please do support this statement with something other than your personal belief......do you have any notion as to how many fully automatic weapons are actually used in crimes?

And please don't bother to conflate the scary "assault weapon" label with a semi automatic firearm....there is a distinction between automatic and semi automatic.

He sailed right on by the "distinction" buoy.

 

[Bum]

He sailed right on by the "distinction" buoy.

*sigh*

And Goshin really did a nice job on this sticky.....

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gun-...guns-full-auto-semi-auto-assault-weapons.html

 

[TurtleDude]

The stats show otherwise, which is why I have posted them here in this forum.

Your chances of dieing a gun-death in the US is (at least, if not more) 3.6 times that of mine anywhere in Europe ...

and my chance of being able to defend myself from people who are still armed and violent no matter what laws are passed are far far higher than 3.6 times than yours.

you do understand that trying to compare countries that have never had widespread gun ownership due to feudal, fascist or collectivist histories with the USA is futile?

 

[joG]

Inequality? What the **** is he talking about? What is the "simple measure of inequality"?

It's not a "simple" measure. It is simplistic. But it projects the feel of authentic science liberals need for their populisms.

 

[NonoBadDog]

THERE IS NO FINALITY MORE AWFUL THAN GUN DEATHS



Oh, come off it. This is just the sort of mental blindness that is causing the high firearms death-rate in the US.

Myopia becomes you so well. Tantamount to "for as long as it aint happenin in MY NEIGHBORHOOD, I don't give a damn!"

Some people really 'n truly have to be in the middle of crossfire before they will understand the real danger of firearm death. Which is due to ignorance of the statistical facts. So, here's the bad news (from here):

Gun Violence is a Leading Cause of Death in America

Many people in America think "there's nothing we can do about it". And yet, a simple law stating that you can own a gun but you cannot carry it with you in public without a permit could do wonders. And all non automatic firearm carried by unauthorized individuals (allowing police) either publicly or within the home and without a permit will be confiscated. Then, make sure permits are not given to any automatic-arms whatsoever.

Allow them to be "rented" at a gun-range purely for amusement but never held personally nor in public nor in any residence.Nobody needs a machine-gun to protect themselves in their own homes!)

Look at the probability chart above. How many of the incidences are "public-related" up to and including that of "assault by gun"? Only five or six out of a total of 15. All the rest (9) are death-causes of a personal nature. Suicide is one cause-of-death by firearm is higher than any public-related means of death, but there is nothing legal a nation can do about suicide.

YES-WE-CAN keep machine-guns off the streets (by confiscating them on-sight or if found out-of-sight). There are three Federal Gun Laws including one signed by Clinton, but none have been able to stop the widespread use of automatic assault weapons to kill innocent people.

LOOKING FOR A LOWER RATE OF GUN-DEATHS?

Well you wont find it in Mexico - see here: List of countries by firearm-related death rate

On an international scale the US has a higher rate of homicidal death than the most comparable other states (those of the European Union. The US homicidal death-rate is at 3.60 per 100K (of population) and then the rates drop suddenly below 1.05 for all other European countries.

Those odds - 3.6 to 1 - are impressive. Which is just yet another reason that this American is living in Europe ...

I didn't see anything in there about Chicago or Baltimore.

 

[Absentglare]

Say out of Chicago then. It is a Democrat run city with some of the strictest gun control laws with the highest murder rate in the country. Who wudda thunk it? Kinda like Baltimore on steroids.

Almost every person in the area where I live has multiple guns, even liberals. We have a very low crime rate per capita because we all have guns.

... Chicago has far from the highest murder rate in the country, they just have a really large population.

 

[Absentglare]

that's inaccurate. the vast majority of the USA is very safe and most of the really dangerous places are in areas where there is lots of anti gun laws. If you aren't a drug dealer and you don't shack up with or deal with drug dealers, your chances of being murdered are rather low. 80% or MORE of the murders in the USA involve FELONS killing other felons. and we had less gun laws and plenty of inequality in the past and less gun violence though since 1994, that rate is decreasing even as we have added 40 million more firearms (mainly SEMI AUTOMATIC MAGAZINE FED firearms) and given millions of lawful Americans the ability to legally carry firearms on our streets

That really doesn't address the OP in any meaningful way.

Things like this tax bill where the rich steal from the poor through government will exacerbate the socioeconomic conditions that fuel crime.

 

[Fenton Lum]

From here: The surprising factors driving murder rates: income inequality and respect

Excerpt:


America will remain one of the most unsafest places on earth to live for as long as there is no effective control on guns. Can't be done?

Then we live and die as a result of the consequences. As a nation, we should know better ...

The issue is not the gun which is merely a tool, this issue is the society, and that issue rests upon how this society was founded, coupled with how the power structure set itself up to be out of the reach of all but the aristocracy despite all the lofty rhetoric.

 

[Absentglare]

Oh, this I have to hear.

Please do support this statement with something other than your personal belief......do you have any notion as to how many fully automatic weapons are actually used in crimes?

And please don't bother to conflate the scary "assault weapon" label with a semi automatic firearm....there is a distinction between automatic and semi automatic.

I don't see how squabbling over that detail is relevant, aside from a failed attempt at being condescending.

 

[Absentglare]

and my chance of being able to defend myself from people who are still armed and violent no matter what laws are passed are far far higher than 3.6 times than yours.

you do understand that trying to compare countries that have never had widespread gun ownership due to feudal, fascist or collectivist histories with the USA is futile?

So you are admitting that guns are correlated with gun related crimes? Fascinating.

 

[TurtleDude]

That really doesn't address the OP in any meaningful way.

Things like this tax bill where the rich steal from the poor through government will exacerbate the socioeconomic conditions that fuel crime.

how do the rich steal from the poor when the poor have more government services than they make in total income?

 

[TurtleDude]

So you are admitting that guns are correlated with gun related crimes? Fascinating.

why don't you stop the contrarian nonsense and tell us what laws you think would have prevented this killing?

 

[Absentglare]

I didn't see anything in there about Chicago or Baltimore.

You obviously missed the point of this thread, which is that the homicide rate is related to income inequality. Now you either don't care about the homicide rate because you only care about your own little town, or you're not understanding what you're responding to.

 

[Absentglare]

how do the rich steal from the poor when the poor have more government services than they make in total income?

What are you talking about? This bill literally takes resources from the poor and hands them to the rich.