Fox's Napolitano says after Sondland testimony that Democrats have a case for impeachment

[Moot]

Obama sent the Ukrainians MREs and blanks to fight the Russians and Trump sold them Javelin anti tank missiles. Which administration do you think had the Ukraine’s back more

In lieu of the fact that Trump hates Ukraine....I'd have to say Obama had Ukraine's back more because he sent over military aid they could actually use at the front lines.....as opposed to Trump's putting conditions on the Javelin anti-tank missiles that they must be located in western Ukraine far from eastern Ukraine's front lines.

The javelin anti tank missiles appear to be more for show than defense....

Javelin Missiles at the Heart of Impeachment Scandal Hold More Political Than Military Significance for Ukraine, Experts Say

 

[SLC]

After the 2014 Maiden Revolution the Obama administration was very interested in helping Ukraine fight corruption and become a democracy. He sent over non-lethal military to help fight the Russian aggression at Ukraines borders and the reason for this is because he didn't want to escalate the war. But by 2016 he agreed to send lethal military aide.

Btw...the javelin anti tank missiles that Trump sent over have strings attached....they are not to be used at the front line but only as a defense should the Russians mover further into Ukraine. So they are sitting idle miles away from the front line.

Javelin Missiles at the Heart of Impeachment Scandal Hold More Political Than Military Significance for Ukraine, Experts Say

BTW if you lived in Ukraine which would you rather have Javelins missiles in your armory in the Ukraine or in some armory in the US? Russia now knows using their tanks to try to take more land in Ukraine would be a very bad idea. I think Trump has the Ukraine’s back much more than Obama did.


So I guess they could throw blankets and MREs at the Russians. You crack me up. :lol:

 

[Moot]

Hmm... in other words, the for show weapons delay had no impact on security for our nation or Ukraine.

It's all about showing Russia that the US has Ukraine's back..so by snubbing a WH meeting with Zelensky and putting a hold on military aid unless they investigate the US election and Biden, Trump has shown that his loyalties are with Russia.

 

[Napoleon]

BTW if you lived in Ukraine which would you rather have Javelins missiles in your armory in the Ukraine or in some armory in the US? Russia now knows using their tanks to try to take more land in Ukraine would be a very bad idea. I think Trump has the Ukraine’s back much more than Obama did.


So I guess they could throw blankets and MREs at the Russians. You crack me up. :lol:

That might have been true in 2017. It might have been true in 2018. Trump created a dependency and then Trump stopped that aid in 2019 in the middle of a hot war and now the Donbas region is lost because of his shenanigans. Throwing blankets and MREs is at least putting up a fight. Or you can effectively just give Russia another huge swath of Ukraine like Donald Trump.

 

[SLC]

It's all about showing Russia that the US has Ukraine's back..so by snubbing a WH meeting with Zelensky and putting a hold on military aid unless they investigate the US election and Biden, Trump has shown that his loyalties are with Russia.

That’s nuts :lol: Russia knows now they cannot use their tanks to further encroach into the Ukraine without incurring huge loses of tanks and personnel.

 

[SLC]

That might have been true in 2017. It might have been true in 2018. Trump created a dependency and then Trump stopped that aid in 2019 in the middle of a hot war and now the Donbas region is lost because of his shenanigans. Throwing blankets and MREs is at least putting up a fight. Or you can effectively just give Russia another huge swath of Ukraine like Donald Trump.

He delayed it 55 days to get assurance that the money would not fall into corrupt hands. That is his responsibility under signed treaty with the Ukraine. And why do you excuse Obama for doing nothing for the Ukraine?

 

[ttwtt78640]

It's all about showing Russia that the US has Ukraine's back..so by snubbing a WH meeting with Zelensky and putting a hold on military aid unless they investigate the US election and Biden, Trump has shown that his loyalties are with Russia.

Thank you for some more partisan nonsense. When you speak of Obama it is all about not escalating the conflict with Russia, yet when you speak about Trump it is all about pandering to Russia. Wake up and see that our policy concerning Ukraine has not changed - we hand them cash and they corruptly accept it.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Didn't happen, try again. And don't pretend that suddenly you're a Napolitino fan........he's libertarian and no where near your politics. Wanting unspecified things from Ukraine isn't grounds for impeachment at all. Sondland presumed a lot, and that's why he got bent over and reamed by the Republicans yesterday.

Doesn't have to happen. And the only reason it didn't happen is because they got caught. The criminality starts with the solicitation. Sondland made pretty clear that corruption permeates this administration in his declaration that this was no secret among those in Trump's inner circle and everyone was in on it.

 

[Moot]

Thank you for some more partisan nonsense. When you speak of Obama it is all about not escalating the conflict with Russia, yet when you speak about Trump it is all about pandering to Russia. Wake up and see that our policy concerning Ukraine has not changed - we hand them cash and they corruptly accept it.

Trump has been pandering to Russia since he first announced his candidacy. So I don't know why this is suddenly new news to you.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Trump has been pandering to Russia since he first announced his candidacy. So I don't know why this is suddenly new news to you.

Unlike Obama, who was merely not getting in Russia's way to escalate their aggression.

 

[Jake]

It's all about showing Russia that the US has Ukraine's back..so by snubbing a WH meeting with Zelensky and putting a hold on military aid unless they investigate the US election and Biden, Trump has shown that his loyalties are with Russia.

Has that ever been in doubt?

 

[Napoleon]

He delayed it 55 days to get assurance that the money would not fall into corrupt hands. That is his responsibility under signed treaty with the Ukraine. And why do you excuse Obama for doing nothing for the Ukraine?

He delayed it much longer than that. Congress was asking the Trump Administration why it hadn’t released the funding it authorized as early as February and again in May. As for “assurance that the money would not fall into corrupt hands” - you made that up. He didn’t spontaneously develop concerns about “corrupt hands” after 2 years of providing that aid and we have copious testimony detailing why it was put on hold and that the conditions Trump put on it were to announce investigations into the Bidens and a debunked conspiracy theory.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Thank you for some more partisan nonsense. When you speak of Obama it is all about not escalating the conflict with Russia, yet when you speak about Trump it is all about pandering to Russia. Wake up and see that our policy concerning Ukraine has not changed - we hand them cash and they corruptly accept it.

It's not nonsense. It's true. The Russians are the clear benefactors here. In more ways than one. Trump has damaged not only Ukraine's national security and negotiating position. He has damaged our own national security in raising the likelihood that the US will at some point have to engage any future Russian aggression head on with all the risks and dangers that would entail.

 

[TomFitz]

Obama sent the Ukrainians MREs and blanks to fight the Russians and Trump sold them Javelin anti tank missiles. Which administration do you think had the Ukraine’s back more

Which Administration used a couple of Russian bag men in the pay of an oligarch with ties to Putin (and who made an illegal $300K contribution to Trump’s campaign), as sidekicks to Trump’s “personal attorney” to shake the Ukranians down for an announcement to start a in investigation into a Trump political rival.

Which Administration has consistently hewed to Moscow’s agenda?

And the level of military aid that the Obama Administration gave to Ukraine was on a similar level, even if it was “non lethal”.

Finally, when the Ukranians hear one of the “three amigos” say that Trump doesn’t give a “s$%t” about Ukraine, and they know that Trump has hinted that Russia has a claim on Ukraine, do you really think that Kiev believes they can trust Trump (a preposterous notion on its face), or believe they can count on the US.

Trump’s behavior has consistently favored Russia over Ukraine, in public and, now obviously, behind the scenes.

 

[Jake]

Thank you for some more partisan nonsense. When you speak of Obama it is all about not escalating the conflict with Russia, yet when you speak about Trump it is all about pandering to Russia. Wake up and see that our policy concerning Ukraine has not changed - we hand them cash and they corruptly accept it.

It has changed. Now we tell them they have to to interfere in our election before they can receive their cash. That is a huge change in policy.

 

[Atomic Kid]

He delayed it 55 days to get assurance that the money would not fall into corrupt hands. That is his responsibility under signed treaty with the Ukraine. And why do you excuse Obama for doing nothing for the Ukraine?

Weak! Trump never mentioned corruption at all in his conversations Zelensky. Despite Col. Vindman including it as a talking point to be covered in preparation for the calls. They were hoping to run out the clock on the funds in OMB if they didn't get what they wanted. But it didn't work because somebody called the cops. And Obama did far more than nothing and made our support for Ukraine overtly self-evident to the Russians.

 

[ttwtt78640]

It has changed. Now we tell them they have to to interfere in our election before they can receive their cash. That is a huge change in policy.

That worked out well - or didn't it?

 

[Acadia]

Didn't happen, try again. And don't pretend that suddenly you're a Napolitino fan........he's libertarian and no where near your politics. Wanting unspecified things from Ukraine isn't grounds for impeachment at all. Sondland presumed a lot, and that's why he got bent over and reamed by the Republicans yesterday.

Oh, the Trump haters lurv Napolitano now. They'll sidle up to anyone who shares their narrative.
A bit of history for Napolitano's fair-weather friends; he got the Hillary email case 100%...

 

[Atomic Kid]

That’s nuts :lol: Russia knows now they cannot use their tanks to further encroach into the Ukraine without incurring huge loses of tanks and personnel.

By the Ukrainians are able to get those anti-tank rockets stationed hundreds a miles away they are likely suffer huge losses of their own before they arrive and so it may well prove to be too little too late by that point.

 

[Moot]

Oh, the Trump haters lurv Napolitano now. They'll sidle up to anyone who shares their narrative.
A bit of history for Napolitano's fair-weather friends; he got the Hillary email case 100%...

View attachment 67268571

 

[ChezC3]

Napolitano is a butt hurt dumb ****.

 

[Acadia]

Like Trump humpers don't do the same...get real. :roll:

We really don't.

 

[Jake]

That worked out well - or didn't it?

I am sure Trump will streamline the process next time. Drop the middlemen and let Rudy do all the negotiating, that should prevent any treasonous WBs.

 

[Jake]

We really don't.

Why are you ignoring your new best friend? Donald knows what to do, you do too.

 

[ttwtt78640]

I am sure Trump will streamline the process next time. Drop the middlemen and let Rudy do all the negotiating, that should prevent any treasonous WBs.

It appears that the problem, in this case, was that the Ukrainian president was not going to yield to Trump's (or anyone else's) demands. If the Ukrainian president caved to Trump's demands then he would piss off the congressional demorats such that he would be unlikely to get any future US aid. It was a choice of suffer some US aid delay now or pay a much higher price in the future. It is not unreasonable to expect that the Ukrainian president was advised (perhaps even by the WB or those working with him/her) of the fact that Trump was going to get spanked for his US foreign aid delay tactic and that he should just sit tight and remain silent on the matter.