Fox News Poll: Trump approval down, voters support special counsel on Russial

[Perotista]

I think this is pretty accurate.

Also the turnout last year was moderate over-all in general, whereas the subsegment of Trump's supporters were highly motivated. This essentially means the Trump segment were over-represented at the voting booth - this time. As you said, next time if the Dems happen to run a popular candidate the Trump supporters will have a tougher hoe to row.

Right on. One has to wonder how many Sanders supporters stayed home still peeved at the DNC and Democratic state Party leaders rigging the Democratic primaries in Clinton's favor? I have a grand daughter going to college who was a Sanders supporter. She stayed home stating that she could never vote for Wall Street Hillary or the racist Trump. I tried to talk her into voting third party like I did, but she wouldn't.

I think two set of numbers show how peeved some Sanders supporters were. The first is the Democratic base vote, it went to Clinton 89-8 over Trump with 3% voting third party. The second set is Sanders supporters, they also went to Clinton. But by a 65-22 margin over Trump with 13% voting third party. This is one of the top two reasons I think Clinton lost.

 

[Conservative]

But not the 4.7% unemployment rate and rebounded economy (even at a lower GDP % growth than standard) he handed over to your lord and savior donald trump... Ok, so no to the reasonable discussion, I guess, as apparently you aren't interested in hearing anything but the echo of your own voice, and lack basic understanding of manners or how to have a conversation without hurling insults. From what I can see, the only legacy Trump has created so far is embarrassing himself and America, and working on his golf swing. Any economic wins would be on the shoulders of Obama. I know that's difficult to accept, but while there's been plenty of huffing and puffing, Trump hasn't manage to come anywhere close to blowing Obama's house down.

Keep hoping, though...I'm sure he'll have plenty of time to "make America great again", while fighting off scandal, the general and growing voter disgust, impeachment efforts, ally distrust and....well, ya, keep hoping.

I suggest you change your lean-to liberal because your standards are very low.

You also have no understanding who makes the legislation or controls the purse strings which is Congress and Congress was under Democratic control before the recession hit and prolonged the recession two years after Obama took office.

That is reality. Obviously results don't matter and you prefer your perception to actual data in facts

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[Mycroft]

Sure. But you respond very quickly to one who you say you won't respond to.

Only because I have time on my hands this morning and I'm checking DP often. Believe me, it has nothing to do with you.

The point is this: uncommon outliers do give Trump, at rare times, 45 to 48%. In fact, almost all of the time, he rests at 37 to 40%. The American people, at this point, are waiting to see if the bottom falls out for Trump. He is doing well on the foreign policy tour, although he bowed his head to the Pope, but the investigations here hungrily await his return.

As I said, you are free to make what you will of those...or any...numbers.

Me? I haven't seen a single poll since the election that does NOT screw with the sampling to get their desired outcome...and very FEW polls during the campaign that did not screw with the numbers. That's why I rejected this poll. As a result, I'm not interested in your analysis of bogus numbers.

In any case, I'm done with you. Have a good day.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

If anything like Trump's budget proposal gets through he will see his numbers with the white working class drop off a cliff. They are going to get hammered. I think the safe play is to not make a huge healthcare decision or dramatically cut funding to programs that affect most Americans. Those two things are absolute minefields.

There's often a lag between the policy going through and the people that the policy hurts feeling anything. It seems that when the pain sets in the hurt parties have frequently been convinced that the pain isn't the fault of the policy but of <insert blame target>. Propaganda works. And I will not be surprised if the Republican party blames Trump for policies they wrote. After all, his isn't one of them and they don't seem to like him.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Once folks understand the consequences of Trumps proposed deep budget cuts and Trumpcare, his approval numbers will drop faster than a thermometer in Siberia.

Trump/GOP are about to massively screw-over the middle class and the poor. There will be a huge voter backlash in 2018 and 2020

 

[OlNate]

I suggest you change your lean-to liberal because your standards are very low.

You also have no understanding who makes the legislation or controls the purse strings which is Congress and Congress was under Democratic control before the recession hit and prolonged the recession two years after Obama took office.

That is reality. Obviously results don't matter and you prefer your perception to actual data in facts

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How does it feel to be wrong about every single thing? I've been wrong about one or two things at a time in the past, but never about every single thing. In fact, I very rarely run into people who are wrong about every single thing they are saying, so it's kind of cool to meet you. And on top of that, as the bonus kicker, you are wrong about every single thing while at the same time arrogantly telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. That's style *and* class!

 

[JamesBY]

Only because I have time on my hands this morning and I'm checking DP often. Believe me, it has nothing to do with you.



As I said, you are free to make what you will of those...or any...numbers. Me? I haven't seen a single poll since the election that does NOT screw with the sampling to get their desired outcome...and very FEW polls during the campaign that did not screw with the numbers. That's why I rejected this poll. As a result, I'm not interested in your analysis of bogus numbers. In any case, I'm done with you. Have a good day.

If you say so, Mycroft. The numbers are what they are, and you can't change them by hoping.

 

[Conservative]

How does it feel to be wrong about every single thing? I've been wrong about one or two things at a time in the past, but never about every single thing. In fact, I very rarely run into people who are wrong about every single thing they are saying, so it's kind of cool to meet you. And on top of that, as the bonus kicker, you are wrong about every single thing while at the same time arrogantly telling me I don't know what I'm talking about. That's style *and* class!

Lol yep facts have no place in your world as you believe your opinions are right. The sites I gave you prove you wrong as context matters. Prove me wrong with data

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[OlNate]

Lol yep facts have no place in your world as you believe your opinions are right.

Nah, I think this sums up your position well enough to know it's a waste of time. Another attempt at civil discussion with the right ending in accusations and insults in the books. If nothing else, you did a great job of perpetuating the stereotype. Cheers!

 

[Conservative]

Nah, I think this sums up your position well enough to know it's a waste of time. Another attempt at civil discussion with the right ending in accusations and insults in the books. If nothing else, you did a great job of perpetuating the stereotype. Cheers!

Got it, BLS, BEA, and Treasury are rightwing sources making accusations? The election results for Congress really didn't happen and the Democrats control the Congress and the WH thanks to Obama's great record? Like most liberals you don't like being challenged and certainly have a hard time admitting you are wrong. The American people proved you wrong as per Obama "My legacy and results are on the ballot" How did that turn out for you in the Congressional election along with state and local elections?

You see, the American people will always vote their pocketbooks and your support for Obama says a lot about you and you are someone who lives in Canada with no understanding of the American electorate or even how to do research

 

[haymarket]

Yes, but we have some here like Vesper rightly pointing-out that Rasmussen was the most accurate major polling organization in the 2016 cycle. I think that's a counter argument worth exploring.

But after examining that argument, it becomes clear Trump has fallen by 12 points in Rasmussen's own polling. So Rasmussen is seeing the same trends as the rest of the polls, but they assign Trump a better absolute quantitative value. That ameliorates some of the other polls' doom and gloom, but does not change the basic premise of Trump's decaying situation.

But I do think we have to accept the possibility of Rasmussen's validity, due to their successful track record concerning Trump.

Rasumssen has the flaw of measuring the Presidents popularity by using LIKELY VOTERS samples. As far as I am aware, none of the other major polling companies use that because it is NOT an election and they simply measure public support for the President - likely voters or not.

 

[Fearandloathing]

If anything like Trump's budget proposal gets through he will see his numbers with the white working class drop off a cliff. They are going to get hammered. I think the safe play is to not make a huge healthcare decision or dramatically cut funding to programs that affect most Americans. Those two things are absolute minefields.

I think Trump is counting on a split congress that will leave the issue in limbo. I think it's been his strategy all along. It has been the strategy since Nixon blew his lid on the issue

 

[MrPeanut]

I think Trump is counting on a split congress that will leave the issue in limbo. I think it's been his strategy all along. It has been the strategy since Nixon blew his lid on the issue

I'm not sure he's that smart, but I bet he wouldn't mind if it happened that way.

 

[OlNate]

Got it, BLS, BEA, and Treasury are rightwing sources making accusations? The election results for Congress really didn't happen and the Democrats control the Congress and the WH thanks to Obama's great record? Like most liberals you don't like being challenged and certainly have a hard time admitting you are wrong. The American people proved you wrong as per Obama "My legacy and results are on the ballot" How did that turn out for you in the Congressional election along with state and local elections?

You see, the American people will always vote their pocketbooks and your support for Obama says a lot about you and you are someone who lives in Canada with no understanding of the American electorate or even how to do research

Still hurling insults after I opt out, huh? What bothers you more...that you're not getting attention, or that I'm not bothered by all the nonsensical accusations / disses you are sending my way? You're starting to look a little desperate...maybe take the night off, we'll try it again on some other thread another day...sound good? I'm pretty sure I'm saying no thanks today.

And one last thought...I'm ok with what my appreciation for what Obama was for America and the world says about me. I just wonder, years down the road in retrospect, how you will feel about what your supporting Trump says about you.

And to be fair, since I gave one more thought, you may have the last word - go on, have at it, use it to say something profound, or you can just burn it on blasting me, up to you, it's all yours.

 

[Fearandloathing]

I'm not sure he's that smart, but I bet he wouldn't mind if it happened that way.

There is a difference between smart and cunning. He's over the top in the later

 

[Conservative]

Still hurling insults after I opt out, huh? What bothers you more...that you're not getting attention, or that I'm not bothered by all the nonsensical accusations / disses you are sending my way? You're starting to look a little desperate...maybe take the night off, we'll try it again on some other thread another day...sound good? I'm pretty sure I'm saying no thanks today.

And one last thought...I'm ok with what my appreciation for what Obama was for America and the world says about me. I just wonder, years down the road in retrospect, how you will feel about what your supporting Trump says about you.

And to be fair, since I gave one more thought, you may have the last word - go on, have at it, use it to say something profound, or you can just burn it on blasting me, up to you, it's all yours.

I spent 35 years in the private sector, spent time in the military, raised two incredible kids and was taught personal responsibility by my parents. I turned 70 last November and throughout my entire life I understand that actual results matter. I based my entire career on that principle and was very successful with it. I personally liked Obama, very likeable guy but no experience, no resume, and certainly no leadership skills and the results show it.

yes, he took over an economy that the left called the worst recession since the Great Depression. The GDP growth was negative when he took office which gave him an incredible base to start with. His results show no year over 3% GDP growth, now does that make any sense to you and is that an indication of a successful economic policy? If you have one year at negative, shouldn't a recover take that negative to a 5-7% range? It didn't as BEA.gov shows and led to his loss of the House in 2010.

Now Obama came out of the Congress and had a Democratic Congress for his entire first two years. His 842 billion stimulus was signed in February 2009 and was for shovel ready jobs. He took office with 142 million Americans working and shouldn't shovel ready jobs create new taxpayers? In two years employment went to 139 million or down 3 million. Is that your definition of a stimulus and getting shovel ready jobs?

it has been argued that Bush created the 2009 deficit of over a trillion dollars but Bush's budget was rejected by Congress and that budget had a 500 billion dollar projection. Bush spending authority ran out on March 31, 2009 and the debt then was 11 trillion dollars. Included in that 11 trillion dollars was 450 billion in TARP spending, 350 billion for Bush and 100 billion for Obama. Later in 2009 that TARP expense was repaid by most of the banks and never went to reduce the deficit because Obama knew that Bush would get blamed for it and you are proving that point. Obama actually signed the 2009 budget in March 2009. Bush spending from October 1 to March 31 did not create the trillion dollar deficits for the year and in fact left Obama with a 10.6 trillion dollar debt

Debt to the Penny (Daily History Search Application)

You will note this is a Treasury link and that is the bank account of the United States therefore no other source truly matters. when Obama left office the debt was 19.9 and you can use that link to verify that, today that debt is 19.8 trillion or a reduction.

Obama submitted a budget for fiscal year 2017 that we are operating under right now until September 30 and that budget was for 4.3 TRILLION dollars. The Trump budget for 2018 is 4.1 trillion so can you tell me any other President that cut the budget proposal from the previous year?

Now for unemployment, BLS will give you the raw numbers and the detail. Did you know that Obama set a record for the number of part time employees for economic reasons and discouraged workers? Part time for economic reasons are people who want full time jobs but can't find them in the economy but they are counted as employed. Obama had 1.3 million discouraged workers in 2009 AFTER his stimulus and those people aren't counted as unemployed making the unemployment rate look better than it was. Trump has reduced both significantly in April which is why the official rate and the U-6 rate are so much better and back to 2007 levels before the recession

Now I could go on but until you acknowledge that actual results matter it is a waste of time. Obama's debt was 9.4 trillion, he left us with a 19.9 trillion dollar debt and 9.4% U-6 which is the meaningful unemployment measure and those people didn't vote for Obama

Want me to go on?

 

[OlNate]

Want me to go on?

It's your last word, you can take as long or as short with it as you like.

 

[Conservative]

It's your last word, you can take as long or as short with it as you like.

And yours is that you are going to believe what you want to believe and no amount of factual data is going to change your mind. good luck with that attitude and belief system

 

[OlNate]

And yours is that you are going to believe what you want to believe and no amount of factual data is going to change your mind. good luck with that attitude and belief system

So, I'm going to do something I don't normally do and renege on my last word promise.

If you had started out with that analysis, instead of all the usual "clearly you don't know how, apparently you are too stupid to, try doing some actual bla bla bla" BS the right has come to be known for in their debating, and what I've seen you hand out generously all over this forum, we would have had a very different, much more enjoyable conversation. While I don't agree with everything you say, and definitely see debatable points, I respect the hell out of the brain power behind your analysis. I'm an analyst by profession, and would have loved to have gone through the numbers with you...

Unfortunately we're a little late in the day for me to be committing to a day long debate, which you've finally given me the proposition of. Next time we chat, maybe lead out with that, instead of all that off putting other nonsense that you maybe think is your A game. Your last word was your best.

Ok, you can call me some mean names again, I'm really done this time.

 

[Conservative]

So, I'm going to do something I don't normally do and renege on my last word promise.

If you had started out with that analysis, instead of all the usual "clearly you don't know how, apparently you are too stupid to, try doing some actual bla bla bla" BS the right has come to be known for in their debating, and what I've seen you hand out generously all over this forum, we would have had a very different, much more enjoyable conversation. While I don't agree with everything you say, and definitely see debatable points, I respect the hell out of the brain power behind your analysis. I'm an analyst by profession, and would have loved to have gone through the numbers with you...

Unfortunately we're a little late in the day for me to be committing to a day long debate, which you've finally given me the proposition of. Next time we chat, maybe lead out with that, instead of all that off putting other nonsense that you maybe think is your A game. Your last word was your best.

Ok, you can call me some mean names again, I'm really done this time.

I gave you the location of the data so you can verify what I posted. Those are the official numbers, have at it and prove me wrong. As for name calling please post the part of my post that called you a name?

 

[poweRob]

Fox is fake now too? :lamo

Rasmussen is widely known as a GOP shill poll.

 

[OlNate]

I gave you the location of the data so you can verify what I posted. Those are the official numbers, have at it and prove me wrong. As for name calling please post the part of my post that called you a name?

I was kidding about the mean names, using it to summarize the general lack of respect and weirdly over the top conservative confrontational approach you take to anyone with differing opinions. You'd have a lot better quality conversations if you just approached the topic allowing for different opinions, and just let your opinions stand on their own merit. Ya, I know, it's both sides, but at least determine if the lefty you're about to take a chunk out of is one of the nice ones or not.

As for going through all your data sets tonight, probably not, but should I see you around again for more debatin' fun, maybe let's go at it from a different angle. Not everything has to come to blows... Have a good one.

 

[Chomsky]

Rasumssen has the flaw of measuring the Presidents popularity by using LIKELY VOTERS samples. As far as I am aware, none of the other major polling companies use that because it is NOT an election and they simply measure public support for the President - likely voters or not.

If true, then that explains quite a bit.

Thanks for this.

 

[SheWolf]

I'm not surprised. :shrug:

As I stated in another thread (per propaganda expert J. Goebbels), repeat something over and over enough times and most people will eventually come to believe there is something to it.

I have no problem with an investigation, nor even with a Special Prosecutor...when the issue was clearly criminal as with the Nixon Watergate scandal.

However, I distrust the use when it is seems a politically motivated witch-hunt like the Republican's pursued with Bill Clinton. I honestly think this current Trump investigation activity is similar to that farce.

Still, while I believe it is a waste of time and meant only as a distraction to prevent Trump from focusing on his goals, I accept it as a method of showing what we all already suspect, that there was no collusion with Russia.

I also recognize that Trump's childish reactionary behavior is also becoming annoying.

Still again, I voted for him with my eyes open and got what I expected for the most part. So I will continue to support him on the things I agree with, and not on those I disagree with. :coffeepap:

If this was all about Trump getting a bj in the oval office, I would agree that it looks like a politically motivated roast, but the issue being investigated is actually a lot more serious than that.