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Former Nazi guard (93) found guilty

Not really... they were all about racism and oppression.



When you show the slightest bit of historical understanding I will read your post without laughing...



It is not a protest by we the people... it is a protest against capitalism and democracy.

This shows you know nothing about krystallnacht or distinctions historians make. Distinctions made about the functions of the camps is not making distinctions about the over all plan of extermination. Same plan, different functions. Obvious trolling is obvious.

We notice American capitalism is about to fail massively though.
 
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This shows you know nothing about krystallnacht or distinctions historians make. Distinctions made about the functions of the camps is not making distinctions about the over all plan of extermination. Same plan, different functions. Obvious trolling is obvious.

We notice American capitalism is about to fail massively though.

This shows that you know nothing about analogies... obvious lack of understanding is obvious.
 
I disagree.

Now, were Treblinka, Sobibor and Belzec worse than, say, Dachau, Mauthausen and Buchenwald? Sure. Of course. However....wtf? I doubt any of us would want to spend a ****ing day in any one of those goddamned camps.

It is funny seeing people freak out about a possible distinction between the two camps... :lol:
 
This shows that you know nothing about analogies... obvious lack of understanding is obvious.

Except there is no analogy. Please fail more as you go godwin’s law in a discussion about actual nazis.
 
Trolling a thread about actual nazis to own the libs ey?
 
If I did not wish to debate you I would not be on this forum JS.

There was NO evidence to led to prove Dey was forced into the SS. There was no evidence led nor was it argued he could not join the army because of medical reasons.
Sorry; it is your habit of writing about me in the third person which led me to believe you were not addressing me even when replying to one of my posts. You are doing it in this post also but I misunderstood that this is a matter of your style, maybe to speak to other readers and not me about certain points. I will overlook it.

As to no evidence that young Bruno Dey being forced into the SS or that he was found to be medically unfit for active duty due to a heart condition, I can assure you this was part of his testimony and it has been reported in many of the reports I read. Bruno Dey was already conscripted into the Wehrmacht as a soldat (private) but he was sent to be a tower guard at Stutthof camp. "Dey told the court that as a trained baker’s apprentice, he attempted to get sent to an army kitchen or bakery when he learned he’d been assigned to Stutthof."
Nazi concentration camp guard convicted at age 93 in Germany - National | Globalnews.ca
Consider what this means. A 17-year-old boy is told that he is being sent to an SS-run concentration camp as a guard and he did not want to go there. This can have only one meaning. The boy did not want to be with the SS and was trying to get out of it by asking to be considered for work in a Wehrmacht field kitchen. This establishes two things, that he did not want to be in the SS and that he requested a transfer to a Wehrmacht unit. In the trial, the prosecution never questioned Bruno Dey's account and admitted that he was not a Nazi but they falsely accused Bruno Dey of never requesting a transfer.

Here is the full context of the scenario JS will not discuss and deliberately ignores.


... Ths entire network required 105 sub camps.
I have never refused to discuss anything you have written here. I do not contest anything you wrote. You did not write it before and I did not ignore any of it.

It is in the memory of these dead I call JS out as a holocaust denier and someone who intellectually engages in a dishonest, misrepresentation of what the camp was and what it did.
This is a serious and insulting thing to write even if it is not directed at me. Find one sentence in any paragraph that I have written where I denied the Final Solution. You will not be able to do that because I believe the Nazis wanted to destroy the Jews in Europe and tried to do so with a system of mass extermination. What you wrote about me is shameful. Anyone reading this thread will see this for himself.

Make no mistake Dey was part of it. Each and every SS guard was a war criminal and the full context and suffering they caused is public domain .


The arrest and conviction of this man was done for symbolic reasons. No one put him in jail. No one tortured him. No one beat him with a club, gassed him or starved him.
Bruno Dey never denied he was a guard at Stutthof but I do not believe he was guilty of any crime because he could not help any of the prisoners and he could not help himself to escape. He tried before he even got there and short of throwing down his weapon and walking away none of his detractors would be satisfied. They never knew what it was like to be 17 and put into a uniform with no say in the matter against a state that had gone mad at a time when the world was a hell.
 
Here is yet another misrepresentation from JS. He tried in his last response to me to claim Dey was only wearing a Waffen SS uniform as opposed to another kind of SS uniform as if this suggested it proved he was innocent. It is yer another classic example of how he throws out absolutely false references hoping you do not know the difference and most do not.

In fact by the outbreak of World War II, the SS had consolidated into its final form, which comprised three main organizations: the Allgemeine SS, SS-Totenkopfverbände, and the Waffen-SS.

The Waffen-SS wa a second German army alongside the Wehrmacht and operated in tandem with them, especially with the Heer (German Army).[SUP][10

[/SUP]
The Waffen SS uniform was not some uniform of innocence. As JS is well aware, many embers of the Waffen-SS were involved in numerous atrocities and convicted at the Nuremberg Trials and the Waffen-SS was judged to be a criminal organisation due to its connection to the Nazi Party and direct involvement in numerous war crimes and crimes against humanity.
I knew the concentration camps were operated by the SS-Totenkopfverbände but when I dug up a photograph of Bruno Dey I noticed he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform. I had earlier written that it was necessary to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände to be working at a camp and when I remarked that Bruno had a different uniform, I was challenged to make up my mind, either he had to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände or not. I cannot explain why he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform and I can only guess it was because that was available when, after one month at Stutthof, he was told he was now in the SS and his Wehrmacht uniform had to be removed.
 
I knew the concentration camps were operated by the SS-Totenkopfverbände but when I dug up a photograph of Bruno Dey I noticed he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform. I had earlier written that it was necessary to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände to be working at a camp and when I remarked that Bruno had a different uniform, I was challenged to make up my mind, either he had to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände or not. I cannot explain why he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform and I can only guess it was because that was available when, after one month at Stutthof, he was told he was now in the SS and his Wehrmacht uniform had to be removed.

You were challenged because your description just didnt make sense. Then there was the off the wall evil modern day German government “persecuting” this man.
 
Except there is no analogy. Please fail more as you go godwin’s law in a discussion about actual nazis.

Trolling a thread about actual nazis to own the libs ey?

That is not what I did...
 
I knew the concentration camps were operated by the SS-Totenkopfverbände but when I dug up a photograph of Bruno Dey I noticed he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform. I had earlier written that it was necessary to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände to be working at a camp and when I remarked that Bruno had a different uniform, I was challenged to make up my mind, either he had to be in the SS-Totenkopfverbände or not. I cannot explain why he was wearing a Waffen-SS uniform and I can only guess it was because that was available when, after one month at Stutthof, he was told he was now in the SS and his Wehrmacht uniform had to be removed.


Bull crap. All SS were merged into one. You now simply spew crap.
 
he was found to be medically unfit for active duty due to a heart condition, I can assure you this was part of his testimony and it has been reported in many of the reports I read.]

A 17-year-old boy is told that he is being sent to an SS-run concentration camp as a guard and he did not want to go there.


Find one sentence in any paragraph that I have written where I denied the Final Solution. You will not be able to do that because I believe the Nazis wanted to destroy the Jews in Europe and tried to do so with a system of mass extermination. What you wrote about me is shameful. Anyone reading this thread will see this for himself.


...but I do not believe he was guilty of any crime because he could not help any of the prisoners and he could not help himself to escape.

1. Provide the medical report he had an unfit heart that prevented him from joining the German army and so he was forced into the SS-you keep making claims you provide no proof of and this is why I call you out-either put up or shut up. Go on provide the evidence you claim exists but you won't produce.

2. Everyone of your responses denies the holocaust-everyone particularily when you tried to pass off the camp in question as not being a death camp or when you trivialize the role of an SS camp guard.

3. What you believe is meaningless. Only the people who died or survived in that camp and their relatives have the right to an opinion about how it impacted on them.

4. You do not know what Mr. Dey's options were, you assume you do from your preconceived assumptions and biases which started with you trivializing a death camp, the role its SS plaued and making up some bull**** issue about what type of SS uniform he wore.

5. Finally take the 17 year old reference and listen to what I have to say-how many children younger than 16 died in those and other camps? How many children were forced to die and how many were forced to fight to live because of the Nazis and in particular SS manning these camps. While you are at it, you know how old I was the first time I put body parts in bags after a terrorist attack? You know how old I was the first time I saw a dead body? Do you know any young people who survived war crimes or for that matter violent crimes? How do you put them on a lesser level than Dey?

Do you know how old many of the victims of the holocaust were who suffered? Well?

Save it. I out children in body bags JS. You have the wrong person to play this with. Dead wrong person. Save your agenda. Wrong person. I represent the dead. I represent the dead of any one who has suffered from a war crime in responding to you. I do not defend war criminals posing them as innocent bakers and children. Wrong person. I have put people in jail far younger than 17 for violent crimes. You save that lame attempt to twist age and manipulate it to try make me feel guilty. Wrong person.

Your agenda is transparent and I have called you out. You are no victim nor was Dey nor is anyone assuming to tell anyone the holocaust and the SS whi perpetuated it were innocent.

Now I have made myself clear I am done with responding to you on this topic. I only did because I believe you went too far in mocking the dead in your misrepresentations and denials.

Now I am done. Anyone who wants to read about the holocaust can. Anyone can read for themselves what the SS did. You want to play SS guards as victims? This person Dey compared his being initiated into the camp like a Jew forced there. That is why he was chastized by the Judge. His actual statement was he was given his uniform no one asked him if he wanted it. He never stated he was threatened with death. He made a self serving statement...a subjective self serving statement he could not prove.

You don't stand in a tower next to a gas chamber and here people walk in and scream and say you never knew it was gas. There were crematoriums and they were not baking bread. The smell of burning flesh is damn obvious. This man lived in a barracks with guards of all kinds. Please do not insult anyone's intelligence claiming as he did he never spoke to any of them or never figured out who he was guarding and why. Save it for someone who wants to deny and trivialize.

Save your crap for someone else.
 
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It is funny seeing people freak out about a possible distinction between the two camps... :lol:

Not as sad as it is seeing people try to make one.

“OK, sure, 65,000 people died there, but...It wasn’t a death camp!”
 
The Waffen SS was an elite fighting force, IIRC. However, after Salingrad, there really no longer was such thing left as "elite" in German fighting forces.

There was ass-kicked Germans who prayed for an end to the war, and a bunch of Jew killers who tried to exterminate an entire ethnic gene pool before Russians and Allies overran the Reich. That's about it. However, many in group one found themselves stuck in group two. This is where I believe the young Mr Dey found himself to be.

I am going to rewrite this and apologize to you. I believe your comments are naive and potentially insulting BUT NOT intentional. I apologize. I am reading back all your memos. You are probaly a very nice and decent person and I am reading you too literally. I apologize in public. I mean to challenge you but in a strong but constructive way not to hurt your feelings or insult you. You did not come on this thread to deny or trivialize but I do think you are mistaken about the SS and who it recruited and why. You may be mixing up SS prison guards with a final home guard that was used to defend the country in the final days and not used in camps.

Please understand, guards chose their positions so they would not have to fight. It was seen as a way to avoid being sent to the Russian front or other fronts. At the time Dey joined as a guard, reports were coming in left right and centre about heavy German war losses. Getting guard jobs was a way to avoid fighting. There was no such thing as someone having a heart condition. I know for a fact. I know people who fought in the German army during WW2. They took anyone that moved. That is the reality of war. True reluctant soldiers went into the regular army and had nothing to do with the SS or Nazi government officials. They kept their distance from them and for that matter Hitler, the Gestapo, and other Nazi security services. The kind of people who joined the SS were at first German Nazis who were violent and used to defat the SA. It then morphed into a second army loyal to Hitler not the state. It then recruited non Germans who only needed on criteria-a hatred of Jews.

This camp we talk of also was used to kill Polish political opponents at first. It turned into a death camp to exterminate Jews by the time Dey was there. It was identical in operation to Dachau.
 
I am going to rewrite this and apologize to you. I believe your comments are naive and potentially insulting BUT NOT intentional. I apologize. I am reading back all your memos. You are probaly a very nice and decent person and I am reading you too literally. I apologize in public. I mean to challenge you but in a strong but constructive way not to hurt your feelings or insult you. You did not come on this thread to deny or trivialize but I do think you are mistaken about the SS and who it recruited and why. You may be mixing up SS prison guards with a final home guard that was used to defend the country in the final days and not used in camps.

Please understand, guards chose their positions so they would not have to fight. It was seen as a way to avoid being sent to the Russian front or other fronts. At the time Dey joined as a guard, reports were coming in left right and centre about heavy German war losses. Getting guard jobs was a way to avoid fighting. There was no such thing as someone having a heart condition. I know for a fact. I know people who fought in the German army during WW2. They took anyone that moved. That is the reality of war. True reluctant soldiers went into the regular army and had nothing to do with the SS or Nazi government officials. They kept their distance from them and for that matter Hitler, the Gestapo, and other Nazi security services. The kind of people who joined the SS were at first German Nazis who were violent and used to defat the SA. It then morphed into a second army loyal to Hitler not the state. It then recruited non Germans who only needed on criteria-a hatred of Jews.

This camp we talk of also was used to kill Polish political opponents at first. It turned into a death camp to exterminate Jews by the time Dey was there. It was identical in operation to Dachau.

I'm good with that explanation. Thanks.
 
The most galling parts of this thread was the trivializing of the involvement of the SS and the joke about how supposedly easy it was to get into the SS. On top of this was to act like this was a case of the “evil” modern day German government raining hell upon this guy floods hyperbole into this case.
 
The most galling parts of this thread was the trivializing of the involvement of the SS and the joke about how supposedly easy it was to get into the SS. On top of this was to act like this was a case of the “evil” modern day German government raining hell upon this guy floods hyperbole into this case.

Considering the suspended sentence, the bold does indeed appear to be beyond ridiculous.
 
They are at it again
This time the teenager the Germans want to prosecute was set to work in Stutthof as an assistant stenographer secretary. She is now living in an old folks care home near Hamburg aged 95. The prosecutors claim that she should be found guilty with complicity in the murders of more than 10,000 people. Because she was a child at the time she was at the concentration camp, her name was not revealed by the state although it was leaked to the regional broadcaster NDR who identified her as Irmgard F. A court for juveniles in Schleswig-Holstein now has to decide whether the ex-secretary's case should go to trial.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-ra...-charges-nazi-camp-aide-with-role-in-murders/

Give it over! All these prosecutions of very elderly people who had no say in where they were sent by the Third Reich and had no personal responsibility for crimes serve no purpose but to show the present German government as spiteful idiots.
 
They are at it again
This time the teenager the Germans want to prosecute was set to work in Stutthof as an assistant stenographer secretary. She is now living in an old folks care home near Hamburg aged 95. The prosecutors claim that she should be found guilty with complicity in the murders of more than 10,000 people. Because she was a child at the time she was at the concentration camp, her name was not revealed by the state although it was leaked to the regional broadcaster NDR who identified her as Irmgard F. A court for juveniles in Schleswig-Holstein now has to decide whether the ex-secretary's case should go to trial.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-ra...-charges-nazi-camp-aide-with-role-in-murders/

Give it over! All these prosecutions of very elderly people who had no say in where they were sent by the Third Reich and had no personal responsibility for crimes serve no purpose but to show the present German government as spiteful idiots.

Tears for Nazis....

So sick and sad.
 
They are at it again
This time the teenager the Germans want to prosecute was set to work in Stutthof as an assistant stenographer secretary. She is now living in an old folks care home near Hamburg aged 95. The prosecutors claim that she should be found guilty with complicity in the murders of more than 10,000 people. Because she was a child at the time she was at the concentration camp, her name was not revealed by the state although it was leaked to the regional broadcaster NDR who identified her as Irmgard F. A court for juveniles in Schleswig-Holstein now has to decide whether the ex-secretary's case should go to trial.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/in-ra...-charges-nazi-camp-aide-with-role-in-murders/

Give it over! All these prosecutions of very elderly people who had no say in where they were sent by the Third Reich and had no personal responsibility for crimes serve no purpose but to show the present German government as spiteful idiots.

Hmm......


That‘s you complaining about a Spanish court ruling that the regime didn’t commit crimes against humanity, is it not?

Given that stance, your wailing about people being prosecuted for their role in Nazi war crimes seems just slightly hypocritical :rolleyes:
 
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