For the UFO/aliens visiting earth skeptics

[calamity]

Depends, show me yours and I'll show you mine and then we'll find out.

The “Bob” I’m talking about is Roswell Bob.

 

[Thoreau72]

Faith as supreme confidence needs no analysis or evidence

Of course not. Faith will solve all problems, just as it has since the beginning. It certainly did solve the issue of molestation of innocents by clergy.

 

[Manc Skipper]

Like I said, and you just proved it, you won't even look, and you never will, if you are not curious.


The story is a lot more than grainy photographs, which seems to me you've written it all off without even looking.


You have to look and be driven by curiosity to get a perspective. YOu want an alien to go on Jimmy Kimmel, or land on the white house lawn? Its never going to happen like that.

First you have to suspend disbelief, and then you can be a believer!

 

[calamity]

Again, millions of cameras all over the world for the last 20 years, and nothing but the same old crappy blobs.

Occam's razor

The craziest fact about this whole UFO craze is that the guy making the original sighting said nothing about seeing flying saucers, only that what he saw flew like a saucer skipped off a pond. But, the media, as they are wont to do, completely misinterpreted his words and wrote "flying saucers." So, next thing ya know...everyone is seeing flying saucers. :lol: True story.

The Man Who Introduced the World to Flying Saucers - The Atlantic

 

[beefheart]

You attitude tells me that you don't want there to be UFOs. You are the kind of person who looks out of the corner of your eye, and shrugs your shoulders, and you won't give the subject more than a cursory glance at which point you will go 'harumph! "

Let's get something straight, which PROVES you know crap about the subject.

The 'millions of cameras' are camera phones, are not designed for the kind of photography required to capture a UFO. This is why there are tons of photos of UFOs, but they are grainy.
Like this one:
View attachment 67283710

If someone were trying to fake such a shot, why grainy and at night? Why not hang a nice hubcap from a wire and take a clear shot?

For camera phones, that's as good as it gets for night time photography in the sky.


I worked as a professional photographer for a good 13 years.

The kind of camera and lens required to take a really good close up of distant UFO would require a $13k 600 or 800mm or a $12k 200-400mm telephoto lens, rig on a tripod, and be lucky enough to be at the right place and the right time to capture one. To be able to capture anything that might come up, you'll need two cameras on the ready, one where the sensor's filter was removed so that it's converted to infrared, and the other not modified. Now were talking two $16k rigs on tripods ( add $500 for each for a decent Manfrotto maybe a used one cheaper) Moreover, since most sightings are at night, the camera body would have to be able to shoot in the super high ISO range, and now we're adding the price of a flagship camera body, another $3.6k each to the the price tag.

one more detail, most sightings are in rural areas.

How many people in rural areas have a rig like that and are willing to sit around for 40 years to be lucky enough to find one in the sky? I've been looking my entire life and have never seen one, they are rare and I have a nice rig, but I don't have that lens.

There are tons of abduction stories, and they tell us that UFOs, when moving in close, disable all electronics ( they don't want to be photographed, otherwise recorded, and are operating clandestinely.) That would be the reason for no close ups photos, and most UFOs, can 'disappear' they have been so observed, apparently they have cloaking technology, and who woulda thunk, they, advanced beings one million years ahead of us, are not going to let us capture them like your limited imagination imagines we should.

Yeah, Occam is laughing in your face.

I want there to be UFOs, but there is still nothing out there to prove it. Same old blobs.

As for night photography, I am an amateur astronomer, I know how to do astrophotography, so do millions more.

Fact: Tens of millions of cameras Fact: Tens of millions of security cams Fact: No photos of UFOs that are of any quality.

I've heard the same claptrap for years. You are simply trying to explain this backwards, fitting the answer that you want to answer the question.

Sorry...but whenever there is a bright fireball, we get hundreds of videos from security cameras of good quality....but no UFO's?

You got bupkis, just bad blobby smears and con artists trying to sell the same old "there will be something big...really soon" baloney.

 

[beefheart]

wait, didn't you say something about this kind of thing in your OP?

just so we're clear, it's bad when "doubters" use assumptions to second guess, but it's fine for you to just proclaim any fanciful thing you want? And you think this is logically consistent?


It would be the coolest thing ever if aliens were visiting us, there just isn't any good evidence that it's happened no matter how much we might want it to be true.

That is it exactly! He can make up all kinds of fanciful answers about why there aren't good pictures (with zero proof), yet we can't ask the rational questions.

 

[zyzygy]

Abductions and Aliens: What's Really Going On - Chris A. Rutkowski - Google Boeken


"In the days of ships of sail, galleons were
seen in the skies. In the days of hot air balloons, "airships"
were described. In the days of sleek aircraft, sleek spacecraft
were described. and in the days of radar defying stealth
fighters, logic-defying starships are hypothesised.
This is "cultural tracking". "

 

[calamity]

This Former NASA Engineer Has Debunked Pretty Much Every Online UFO Sighting

 

[beefheart]

This Former NASA Engineer Has Debunked Pretty Much Every Online UFO Sighting

Oberg is great, I've been reading his stuff for a long time. I read one he wrote in the 80's, Red Star in Orbit, lots of then-new stuff about the Soviet space program. He is fantastic.

 

[OscarLevant]

The “Bob” I’m talking about is Roswell Bob.

Got a picture? There are pictures, so I need to see it to assess if we are talking about the same creature. "Skinny Bob" is not Roswell, it's from an smuggled video shot circa the 40s in Russia, it has the 40s style KGB emblem on the film, and the sound of 16 mm film camera in the background.
That is the original Skinny Bob, now some people claim 'Roswell' but they do it mistakenly, because this kind of talk gets pretty loose on the internet, and other 'puppets' which have been proven false, get this moniker.

This why, Calamity, I need to know what,exactly, you are talking about. I'm very familiar with the gamut of pictures out there, and I need to know if you and I are on the same page.

 

[OscarLevant]

I want there to be UFOs, but there is still nothing out there to prove it. Same old blobs.

As for night photography, I am an amateur astronomer, I know how to do astrophotography, so do millions more.

Fact: Tens of millions of cameras Fact: Tens of millions of security cams Fact: No photos of UFOs that are of any quality.

I've heard the same claptrap for years. You are simply trying to explain this backwards, fitting the answer that you want to answer the question.

Sorry...but whenever there is a bright fireball, we get hundreds of videos from security cameras of good quality....but no UFO's?

You got bupkis, just bad blobby smears and con artists trying to sell the same old "there will be something big...really soon" baloney.

You're just repeating yourself


Camera phones are not going to take quality pictures I showed you one.

A blob of a real UFO is still a real UFO.

Also, security cams aren't really pointed in the sky looking for UFOs, which is why I didn't mention them. Security cams aren't about this type of photography, either.

You're just confirming my point.

No, you really do not want their to be UFOs, your attitude betrays you, that you have zero curiosity, have a 'bah humbug' mentality, and have not spent any serious time researching the subject. We have military people in the highest echelons acknowledge the existence UFOs, including some well known astronauts.


No one is saying 'there will be something big soon', you're generalizations are meaningless, which only confirm my point on your attitude.

There's a whole cadre of evidence here by one can conclude at the presumptive level.

For example, if you wake up in the morning, look out the window and there is snow covering everything, one can presume with 100% certainty that it snowed the night before.



The wealth of evidence that we do have, we can achieve the same caliber of presumption, but, looking at one thing, a guy like you is going to say 'bah humbug', which is why you have to be curious, and make a journey of this, to take a look at the vast kinds of evidence we do have, and look at it by stepping back, yet you won't even consider the possibility of it, you are waiting for ET to land on the WH lawn and introduce himself.

It just isn't going to happen that way.

 

[beefheart]

You're just repeating yourself


Camera phones are not going to take quality pictures I showed you one.

A blob of a real UFO is still a real UFO.

Also, security cams aren't really pointed in the sky looking for UFOs, which is why I didn't mention them. Security cams aren't about this type of photography, either.

You're just confirming my point.

No, you really do not want their to be UFOs, your attitude betrays you, that you have zero curiosity, have a 'bah humbug' mentality, and have not spent any serious time researching the subject. We have military people in the highest echelons acknowledge the existence UFOs, including some well known astronauts.


No one is saying 'there will be something big soon', you're generalizations are meaningless, which only confirm my point on your attitude.

There's a whole cadre of evidence here by one can conclude at the presumptive level.

For example, if you wake up in the morning, look out the window and there is snow covering everything, one can presume with 100% certainty that it snowed the night before.



The wealth of evidence that we do have, we can achieve the same caliber of presumption, but, looking at one thing, a guy like you is going to say 'bah humbug', which is why you have to be curious, and make a journey of this, to take a look at the vast kinds of evidence we do have, and look at it by stepping back, yet you won't even consider the possibility of it, you are waiting for ET to land on the WH lawn and introduce himself.

It just isn't going to happen that way.

You are making fanciful excuses for lack of data, and trying to blame the lack of data on others.

You have nothing, but conspiracy wank.

 

[OscarLevant]

You are making fanciful excuses for lack of data, and trying to blame the lack of data on others.

You have nothing, but conspiracy wank.

You have a lot of ignorance, that's what you've got.

Nothing conspiratorial at all about the words of Gordon Cooper and Buzz Aldrin.

 

[beefheart]

You have a lot of ignorance, that's what you've got.

Nothing conspiratorial at all about the words of Gordon Cooper and Buzz Aldrin.

I don't have ignorance, I have experience. I read every UFO thing out there. Your Gordon Cooper and Buzz Aldrin stuff means nothing....why are they not out there pushing the UFO stuff today?

UFO grifters, trying to keep stuff up.

 

[OscarLevant]

\

UFO grifters, trying to keep stuff up.

everyone's a grifter


Science doesn't have direct evidence that the big bang occurred, so they 'presume' that fact based on INDIRECT evidence. It's just a theory, but they are not calling other scientists grifters.

I can PRESUME you are IGNORANT because of your ATTITUDE.

Dr Josef Hynek,

Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is.

About twenty or so years ago, about 20 men of credibility, gathered together at a National Press Club Event to tell their stories, this article wrote about it

But today's historic event, which will be broadcast live on the Internet, will reveal perhaps the most compelling evidence yet that UFOs do exist.

More than 20 military, intelligence, government, corporate and scientific witnesses will tell the world's media - and millions of online viewers - that life does exist beyond this planet ... and that it has already made contact with Earth.

There will be skeptics, but there can be no doubting the caliber of the witnesses.

They include Master Sergeant Dan Morris, former US Air Force and National Reconnaissance Office operative with cosmic top secret clearance, Dr Carol Rosin, space missile defence consultant and former spokesperson for Wernher Von Braun, and Major George A Filer III, formerly of Air Force Intelligence.

BUT perhaps the most amazing witness will be John Callahan, former Division Chief of the Accidents and Investigations Branch of the US Federal Aviations Authority, who says he has first- hand experience of extra-terrestrial activity.

Callahan says he watched in disbelief as a flying saucer chased a Japanese Airlines 747 across the Alaskan skies for 31 incredible minutes.

Air and ground-based radars confirmed that the former aviation chief wasn't seeing things and half-an-hour of radar data was collected.

Yet 24 hours later, Callahan's report of a UFO sighting had mysteriously vanished.

There's plenty of evidence of cover up. So, why would the government cover it up, if it were 'nothing'?

Are all of these people grifters, as well?


Ronald Reagan saw a UFO, came to believe in them, was he a grifter, as well?


"grifters' you call them.

You call all the witnesses, millions of witnesses of a large humanoid ape-like creature, sightings all over the world, for centuries, all of them, are 'grifters' too?


What equals indirect evidence?


Under hypnosis, during the 80s, long before the book, 'communion' came out, long before we had descriptions of aliens, under hypnosis, a few thousand have testified being abducted.


Does that prove aliens are real? Not in the sense you are looking for, but what explains the fact that almost all of their stories, people from all walks of life, bankers, lawyers, plumbers, scientists, housewives, tell pretty much the SAME story, and their DESCRIPTIONS of the aliens match, and that ALL of them communicated with the subjects telepathically. How is it possible that their stories match, when nobodies knows the other, and there is no, at this juncture, public declaration of what aliens look like?

For you to understand this, you'll have to read the works of Dr. David Jacobs, and Dr. John Mack ( from Harvard ).
But, according to you, they are grifters.

You know who Dr. Josef Hynek is, as an astronomer, you must. Did you know he said this:

Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is.

And there you sit, in your smug chair at your computer, calling millions of people from all walks of life who have seen UFOs, they are all grifters. Well, according to Dr. Hynek, you're not much on proper scientific attitude.

Your attitude is wholly unbecoming of what science it all about.

AFTER YEARS OF RESEARCH he finally came this conclusion

He once said, "As a scientist I must be mindful of the lessons of the past; all too often it has happened that matters of great value to science were overlooked because the new phenomenon did not fit the accepted scientific outlook of the time."[6]

In a 1985 interview, when asked what caused his change of opinion, Hynek responded, "Two things, really. One was the completely negative and unyielding attitude of the Air Force. Secondly, the caliber of the witnesses began to trouble me. Quite a few instances were reported by military pilots, for example, and I knew them to be fairly well-trained, so this is when I first began to think that, well, maybe there was something to all this."

And you won't even take a step in a direction called research.

Your attitude tells the tale.

 

[beefheart]

everyone's a grifter


Science doesn't have direct evidence that the big bang occurred, so they 'presume' that fact based on INDIRECT evidence. It's just a theory, but they are not calling other scientists grifters.

I can PRESUME you are IGNORANT because of your ATTITUDE.

Dr Josef Hynek,

Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is.

About twenty or so years ago, about 20 men of credibility, gathered together at a National Press Club Event to tell their stories, this article wrote about it


There's plenty of evidence of cover up. So, why would the government cover it up, if it were 'nothing'?

Are all of these people grifters, as well?


Ronald Reagan saw a UFO, came to believe in them, was he a grifter, as well?


"grifters' you call them.

You call all the witnesses, millions of witnesses of a large humanoid ape-like creature, sightings all over the world, for centuries, all of them, are 'grifters' too?


What equals indirect evidence?


Under hypnosis, during the 80s, long before the book, 'communion' came out, long before we had descriptions of aliens, under hypnosis, a few thousand have testified being abducted.


Does that prove aliens are real? Not in the sense you are looking for, but what explains the fact that almost all of their stories, people from all walks of life, bankers, lawyers, plumbers, scientists, housewives, tell pretty much the SAME story, and their DESCRIPTIONS of the aliens match, and that ALL of them communicated with the subjects telepathically. How is it possible that their stories match, when nobodies knows the other, and there is no, at this juncture, public declaration of what aliens look like?

For you to understand this, you'll have to read the works of Dr. David Jacobs, and Dr. John Mack ( from Harvard ).
But, according to you, they are grifters.

You know who Dr. Josef Hynek is, as an astronomer, you must. Did you know he said this:

Ridicule is not part of the scientific method, and people should not be taught that it is.

And there you sit, in your smug chair at your computer, calling millions of people from all walks of life who have seen UFOs, they are all grifters. Well, according to Dr. Hynek, you're not much on proper scientific attitude.

Your attitude is wholly unbecoming of what science it all about.

AFTER YEARS OF RESEARCH he finally came this conclusion



And you won't even take a step in a direction called research.

Your attitude tells the tale.

All that writing.

You still have nothing.

But wait..buy this guy's book, because soon, something will be revealed.

Till then, get more blobby unfocused pictures...

 

[OscarLevant]

All that writing.

You still have nothing.

But wait..buy this guy's book, because soon, something will be revealed.

Till then, get more blobby unfocused pictures...

Thank you for confirming my point

Try reading it, next time.

 

[Northern Light]

This is a fun topic to discuss!

I do believe aliens have visited Earth, but I think it's so rare as to be negligible. There are many anomalies in history and ancient history which depict alien visitations, but they can't fully defy Occam's Razor, so we can't conclude anything.

It's frustrating that all of the "footage" available is crappy.

However, there is declassified military footage that's pretty incredible.

So yes... intelligent alien life is out there, I believe. Their involvement with this planet however remains dubious.

 

[beefheart]

Thank you for confirming my point

Try reading it, next time.

Thanks for confirming that you have zero proof of anything that can withstand scrutiny.

Just blobs. Millions of cameras, and no proof....

 

[OscarLevant]

i do that quite well, thanks. however, little grey men aren't folding space time like a post it note and diving on through it in disco lighted saucers to take anal samples from cattle.

How do you know they aren't?

 

[zyzygy]

This is a fun topic to discuss!

I do believe aliens have visited Earth, but I think it's so rare as to be negligible. There are many anomalies in history and ancient history which depict alien visitations, but they can't fully defy Occam's Razor, so we can't conclude anything.

It's frustrating that all of the "footage" available is crappy.

However, there is declassified military footage that's pretty incredible.

So yes... intelligent alien life is out there, I believe. Their involvement with this planet however remains dubious.

My problem is how did they find out about us in this tiny corner of an immense galaxy.

 

[zyzygy]

How do you know they aren't?

How do you know that they are? Do you know how much energy it would take to make a wormhole big enough for a spaceship?

 

[Helix]

How do you know they aren't?

the distances are basically impossible. also, the vast majority of the population carries around video cameras at all times, and i have yet to see a convincing video of space aliens landing, saying howdy, and then grabbing a cow. i suppose that if enthusiasts want to believe that we are being peppered with space alien visits, it doesn't really hurt anything, but it's almost certainly not true.

 

[WCH]

Of course not. Faith will solve all problems, just as it has since the beginning. It certainly did solve the issue of molestation of innocents by clergy.

That's like saying all cops are bad. Evil exist in every group. Even in space aliens.

 

[OscarLevant]

the distances are basically impossible. also, the vast majority of the population carries around video cameras at all times, and i have yet to see a convincing video of space aliens landing, saying howdy, and then grabbing a cow. i suppose that if enthusiasts want to believe that we are being peppered with space alien visits, it doesn't really hurt anything, but it's almost certainly not true.

What if:

1. Aliens have an agenda, and they are doing it clandestinely deliberately, they have the ability to cloak their machines and themselves.

2. Aliens have the ability to switch off at a close range:
a ) People
b ) all electronics within the field of their tractor beams.

3. All points in space are connected, all one has to do is find the key to the connection.

4. Are a million or millions of years more technologically advanced , and achieved all of the above and below?

5. Most of the testimonies of abductees under hypnosis describe the same or verisimilar events and descriptions of aliens are identical, that hundreds were done before the book "communion" was published, and the abductees were from all walks of life, from all over the world?

6. There are thousands of landing physical trace cases.

7. Many abductees have tiny implants under the skin, in the ear, deep in the nose ( a few deep in the brain), which a lab analysis reveals 'nanotubes' and micron thin lawyers of exotic woven metal?

8. Large groups of people witnessing the same UFOs in the sky at the same location and the descriptions were of a UFO that was as big as a football field.

9. There are witnesses of UFO by high level military personell.

10. Those who tried to blow the whistle were threatened by NSA personel.


If all of the above were true ( and they are true ) then all of your objections are moot.


There are tons of photos of UFOs, and videos, at about the quality one can expect of a camera phone.

Just google it.