For teen girls, abortion linked to better outcomes vs. giving birth

[WCH]

Zefs don't have any desires. They are incapable of it.

Ah, further convenient excuse and removal of guilt.

 

[WCH]

No blame on the unborn, you just made that up. (Just like the unborn having any desire. Wut?)

It's just using words properly, like "responsible" and "irresponsible," and recognizing the realities of life and where the responsibilities end up falling if you have a kid you are not prepared for. If a woman can make a responsible choice, such as abortion if that is what is right for her, then she is acting in a mature manner, with a view to a better future for herself and her family, current and future. Making tough decisions is also a mark of maturity and responsibility.

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Personally, the uncaring, selfish, sadistic and blasphemous views toward the unborn you and others have here are what nightmares are made of.

 

[SirGareth]

Girls that are in the birthcanal are not born yet, The cannot be pregnant let alone hllave an abortion.

Weird.

Then exactly what is is the procedure called as performed on a living girl in the birth canal when it dismembers her?

 

[TheGoverness]

Then exactly what is is the produce called when performed on a living girl in the birth canal that succeeds when it dismembers her?

....What in the **** are you going on about?

 

[year2late]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Personally, the uncaring, selfish, sadistic and blasphemous views toward the unborn you and others have here are what nightmares are made of.

How do you humiliate and inflict pain on a fetus? Most abortions are performed are performed at less than 8 weeks! How the hell can a fetus even feel humiliated?

 

[Scrabaholic]

Ah, further convenient excuse and removal of guilt.

Your post has nothing to do with the post you quoted.

 

[Lursa]

Whatever helps you sleep at night.

Personally, the uncaring, selfish, sadistic and blasphemous views toward the unborn you and others have here are what nightmares are made of.

So you have no more arguments to refute the truth and resort to this?

No surprise.

 

[Lursa]

Then exactly what is is the procedure called as performed on a living girl in the birth canal when it dismembers her?

Gee you seem so much smarter than us, you have us stumped.

Can you just tell us? So then we'll know too?

 

[Lursa]

How do you humiliate and inflict pain on a fetus? Most abortions are performed are performed at less than 8 weeks! How the hell can a fetus even feel humiliated?

It's this delusional personification of the unborn that really seems to infect some people.

It enables them to really really get themselves all worked up in self-righteous outrage. No facts required.

I find it disturbing that some people invest so much time and imagine such detail in the unborn of strangers. There's alot more good they could be doing in the world...like even spending time with their own families.

 

[joG]

So you have no more arguments to refute the truth and resort to this?

No surprise.

There are plenty of arguments. But y'all ignore them as robustly aus Mao and his ilk ignored critisism of their behavior.

 

[Lursa]

There are plenty of arguments. But y'all ignore them as robustly aus Mao and his ilk ignored critisism of their behavior.

Oh no, please do not post lies.

We do not ignore your posts at all. We continually ask you to provide direct responses to support your pseudo-intellectual posts that you leave hanging in the air.

 

[TheGoverness]

There are plenty of arguments. But y'all ignore them as robustly aus Mao and his ilk ignored critisism of their behavior.

Nah. Nobody here has shied away from pro-life arguments.

 

[FutureIncoming]

There are plenty of arguments.

NONE OF WHICH ARE WORTH ANYTHING. I made a list of them, remember?

But y'all ignore them

A STUPID LIE. I tackled every single one of them head-on, explaining exactly why they weren't worth anything.

SO: you might have plenty of arguments, but you-all have not got even one single **valid** argument against abortion, in this day-and-age.

 

[FutureIncoming]

Personally, the uncaring,

BRAGGING ABOUT ABORTION OPPONENTS AND BORN PERSONS AGAIN, I SEE. Tsk, tsk! We have lots of evidence you care nothing about the born. Yet you blather CLAIMS about the unborn, without presenting even the slightest bit of evidence why mindless animals deserve caring when the species is overpopulated.

selfish,

STILL BRAGGING ABOUT ABORTION OPPONENTS AND BORN PERSONS. You folks do everything you can to restrict the availability of resources, arbitrarily increasing the cost of goods, just so you can selfishly profit from it. AND you folks oppose abortion explicitly so that there is an increase in the demand of those more-expensive goods, also just so you can selfishly profit from it. If you actually exhibited any of the caring you insist others should exhibit, then you would ensure resource-availability increases faster than the population, rather than the exact opposite.

sadistic

MORE BRAGGING ABOUT ABORTION OPPONENTS AND THE BORN. Because sadism involves getting pleasure from harming others, like when you-all work to profit from ruining the economic well-being of others, driving them into debt-slavery, per the tactics mentioned above.

and blasphemous

A STUPID LIE. You cannot offer the slightest bit of evidence that God is against abortion. While pro-choicers can offer evidence to the contrary, like Exodus 21:22, in which causing the deaths of the unborn can be associated with an arbitrary penalty, including ZERO penalty.

MEANWHILE, the way you-all treat the born, as described above, could possibly be called "blasphemous", thanks to the Legal Fact that born humans qualify as persons, and per Jesus, persons are supposed to be treated this way.

 

[year2late]

There are plenty of arguments. But y'all ignore them as robustly aus Mao and his ilk ignored critisism of their behavior.

I get that you perceive an embryo or fetus to be equal to a born child. I respect that. You do not have biological "truth" but I accept and respect that you have your own philosophical point of view. Do you respect that others have a different philosophical point of view on this subject?

But frankly from the pro-life side (not pointing fingers at you!!!)there are lies that get spewed. Some examples.

-most Planned Parenthood's only do abortions and pregnancy tests
-abortion is murder
-Planned Parenthood pushes women to get abortions
-Planned Parenthood makes big profits for "killing babies"
-most women who get abortions end up with psychiatric issues due to abortion
-the federal government pays for abortions (in general -not the rape, life of mother exception)
-women usually get abortions for trivial reasons
-the whole pain issue - that the fetus has capacity to feel pain much earlier than physiologically possible
-most procedures done by Planned Parenthood are abortion

My point is that the lies presented do nothing by water down the validity of more honest arguments. Keep in mind that while the force of the Pro-Life movement goes to the fetus...why are they not protecting the born individuals? The politicians are pushed to push for anti-abortion issues....but CHIP is being put out there as not essential? Hypocritical to me.

I am personally anti abortion - but emphatically will not push my philosophical POV on another woman to interfere with her choice.

I have never understood the lack of pragmatism on this. While campaigns like 40 Days may dissuade handfuls of women.....the "gold" is in prevention of unwanted pregnancy. That is where real accomplishment can occur.

 

[Lursa]

I get that you perceive an embryo or fetus to be equal to a born child. I respect that. You do not have biological "truth" but I accept and respect that you have your own philosophical point of view. Do you respect that others have a different philosophical point of view on this subject?

But frankly from the pro-life side (not pointing fingers at you!!!)there are lies that get spewed. Some examples.

-most Planned Parenthood's only do abortions and pregnancy tests
-abortion is murder
-Planned Parenthood pushes women to get abortions
-Planned Parenthood makes big profits for "killing babies"
-most women who get abortions end up with psychiatric issues due to abortion
-the federal government pays for abortions (in general -not the rape, life of mother exception)
-women usually get abortions for trivial reasons
-the whole pain issue - that the fetus has capacity to feel pain much earlier than physiologically possible
-most procedures done by Planned Parenthood are abortion

My point is that the lies presented do nothing by water down the validity of more honest arguments. Keep in mind that while the force of the Pro-Life movement goes to the fetus...why are they not protecting the born individuals? The politicians are pushed to push for anti-abortion issues....but CHIP is being put out there as not essential? Hypocritical to me.

I am personally anti abortion - but emphatically will not push my philosophical POV on another woman to interfere with her choice.

I have never understood the lack of pragmatism on this. While campaigns like 40 Days may dissuade handfuls of women.....the "gold" is in prevention of unwanted pregnancy. That is where real accomplishment can occur.

Excellent post.

 

[Removable Mind]

I get that you perceive an embryo or fetus to be equal to a born child. I respect that. You do not have biological "truth" but I accept and respect that you have your own philosophical point of view. Do you respect that others have a different philosophical point of view on this subject?

But frankly from the pro-life side (not pointing fingers at you!!!)there are lies that get spewed. Some examples.

-most Planned Parenthood's only do abortions and pregnancy tests
-abortion is murder
-Planned Parenthood pushes women to get abortions
-Planned Parenthood makes big profits for "killing babies"
-most women who get abortions end up with psychiatric issues due to abortion
-the federal government pays for abortions (in general -not the rape, life of mother exception)
-women usually get abortions for trivial reasons
-the whole pain issue - that the fetus has capacity to feel pain much earlier than physiologically possible
-most procedures done by Planned Parenthood are abortion

My point is that the lies presented do nothing by water down the validity of more honest arguments. Keep in mind that while the force of the Pro-Life movement goes to the fetus...why are they not protecting the born individuals? The politicians are pushed to push for anti-abortion issues....but CHIP is being put out there as not essential? Hypocritical to me.

I am personally anti abortion - but emphatically will not push my philosophical POV on another woman to interfere with her choice.

I have never understood the lack of pragmatism on this. While campaigns like 40 Days may dissuade handfuls of women.....the "gold" is in prevention of unwanted pregnancy. That is where real accomplishment can occur.

:applaud

 

[Exactice]

I get that you perceive an embryo or fetus to be equal to a born child. I respect that. You do not have biological "truth" but I accept and respect that you have your own philosophical point of view. Do you respect that others have a different philosophical point of view on this subject?

But frankly from the pro-life side (not pointing fingers at you!!!)there are lies that get spewed. Some examples.

-most Planned Parenthood's only do abortions and pregnancy tests
-abortion is murder
-Planned Parenthood pushes women to get abortions
-Planned Parenthood makes big profits for "killing babies"
-most women who get abortions end up with psychiatric issues due to abortion
-the federal government pays for abortions (in general -not the rape, life of mother exception)
-women usually get abortions for trivial reasons
-the whole pain issue - that the fetus has capacity to feel pain much earlier than physiologically possible
-most procedures done by Planned Parenthood are abortion

My point is that the lies presented do nothing by water down the validity of more honest arguments. Keep in mind that while the force of the Pro-Life movement goes to the fetus...why are they not protecting the born individuals? The politicians are pushed to push for anti-abortion issues....but CHIP is being put out there as not essential? Hypocritical to me.

I am personally anti abortion - but emphatically will not push my philosophical POV on another woman to interfere with her choice.

I have never understood the lack of pragmatism on this. While campaigns like 40 Days may dissuade handfuls of women.....the "gold" is in prevention of unwanted pregnancy. That is where real accomplishment can occur.

right there with you, have been trying to explain that in my previous post....of course it gets buried in the mumbo jumbo, of opinions of what is and what isnt....

truth of the matter again.... Is while planned parenthood is NOT always the answer, The hope and pray is that they are providing PROPER education to its customers and not aiding them/or enabling them to keep repeating their mistakes.... which it seems..... some people ARE NOT.......learning from their mistakes...... so the education is NOT being properly understood...

 

[Removable Mind]

right there with you, have been trying to explain that in my previous post....of course it gets buried in the mumbo jumbo, of opinions of what is and what isnt....

truth of the matter again.... Is while planned parenthood is NOT always the answer, The hope and pray is that they are providing PROPER education to its customers and not aiding them/or enabling them to keep repeating their mistakes.... which it seems..... some people ARE NOT.......learning from their mistakes...... so the education is NOT being properly understood...

You're placing false expectations on Planned Parenthood. Ever hear, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."

What methods do you expect PP to employ to pound into women every possible thing that they need to know about sex, birth control, abstinence, various abortions methods? WHAT DO YOU PRAY Planned parenthood needs to do PRECISELY, which you believe is ethically necessity to do - that they already don't? Learning failures happen for a several of reasons. Some women are seriously ignorant because they have little to no prior education from any source. Some may have learning various disabilities. Some may have mental disorders (ADD - ADHD) that makes it difficult to learn. On the other hand there are a lot of very intelligent women who go to PP. So where exactly do you see the shortcoming on PP's part?

But perhaps learning failures about sex, birth control, and consequences (including abortion) start with PARENTS. Parents MUST TALK with their kids about sex - ALL OF IT. Then it's a NECESSITY for schools to teach REAL sex education - tell it like it is educations - no candy coated bull****. And abstinence alone education, such institutions and teachers who provide this type of information need to be put in jail for possibly damaging the future of children.

Planned Parenthood should explain to women the various options regarding birth control, when women go for exams. They can discuss consequences of NOT taking birth control. But once a woman comes in pregnant and SHE wants it terminated. <------ Too late to talk about the birds and the bees. It's time to talk about the methods used based on individual types of pregnancies. PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS NOT GOING TO BEG WOMEN TO GO TO THEIR PRIEST OR PASTOR about what they should do before they make their final decision about terminating a pregnancy. Women do have the responsibility to seek out all possible information and various sources prior to terminating IF THEY BELIEVE it's necessary for themselves.

 

[Scrabaholic]

But perhaps learning failures about sex, birth control, and consequences (including abortion) start with PARENTS. Parents MUST TALK with their kids about sex - ALL OF IT.

I totally agree. We lucked out - our (step)mom was a nurse and had no problem talking about *anything*. She taught us to protect ourselves should we choose to have sex. This was when most of our peers' parents were saying "thou shalt not do it". Consequently, neither of us got pregnant/caused a pregnancy as a teen.

 

[Exactice]

You're placing false expectations on Planned Parenthood. Ever hear, "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink."

What methods do you expect PP to employ to pound into women every possible thing that they need to know about sex, birth control, abstinence, various abortions methods? WHAT DO YOU PRAY Planned parenthood needs to do PRECISELY, which you believe is ethically necessity to do - that they already don't? Learning failures happen for a several of reasons. Some women are seriously ignorant because they have little to no prior education from any source. Some may have learning various disabilities. Some may have mental disorders (ADD - ADHD) that makes it difficult to learn. On the other hand there are a lot of very intelligent women who go to PP. So where exactly do you see the shortcoming on PP's part?

But perhaps learning failures about sex, birth control, and consequences (including abortion) start with PARENTS. Parents MUST TALK with their kids about sex - ALL OF IT. Then it's a NECESSITY for schools to teach REAL sex education - tell it like it is educations - no candy coated bull****. And abstinence alone education, such institutions and teachers who provide this type of information need to be put in jail for possibly damaging the future of children.

Planned Parenthood should explain to women the various options regarding birth control, when women go for exams. They can discuss consequences of NOT taking birth control. But once a woman comes in pregnant and SHE wants it terminated. <------ Too late to talk about the birds and the bees. It's time to talk about the methods used based on individual types of pregnancies. PLANNED PARENTHOOD IS NOT GOING TO BEG WOMEN TO GO TO THEIR PRIEST OR PASTOR about what they should do before they make their final decision about terminating a pregnancy. Women do have the responsibility to seek out all possible information and various sources prior to terminating IF THEY BELIEVE it's necessary for themselves.

I 100% agree!!!! I am sure my previous post got buried about 15 pages ago LOL, education and parents responsibility is INITIAL and paramount. I am a new parent and am fearful of this, But I am educating myself and trying to learn what I can so I may relay this to my children.


My point about PP is "after" the fact as likely the people there are 2 choices,

1) Bad choice to begin with
2) Uneducated

So again PP in my mind after it is "TOO" late is to help the one that made a bad choice, to remind them and educate them that it was a bad choice. or 2 the second that is completely uneducated to become educated. As you stated you can bring a horse to water...... and I agree... ultimately its up to them, and that is why I am still pro choice...... The thing is I have been to a PP service (as a support friend for a female) My experiences was surprised. They are VERY VERY nice..... but the thing is..... its like enabling them..... "oh we are always here for your... we will always take care of you blah blah blah...." I dont recall, a sit down with a case worker that ran them through the gauntlet (not literally, but at least a good sit down). IT was come in for your service, here are some condoms for future use, if you need us we are always here.....


Talk about enabling......


Anyways again, 100% the Parents are paramount, and I hate to say it, but a good percentage of those that use the service.... the parents well.... were lackluster.....

 

[Lursa]

I 100% agree!!!! I am sure my previous post got buried about 15 pages ago LOL, education and parents responsibility is INITIAL and paramount. I am a new parent and am fearful of this, But I am educating myself and trying to learn what I can so I may relay this to my children.


My point about PP is "after" the fact as likely the people there are 2 choices,

1) Bad choice to begin with
2) Uneducated

So again PP in my mind after it is "TOO" late is to help the one that made a bad choice, to remind them and educate them that it was a bad choice. or 2 the second that is completely uneducated to become educated. As you stated you can bring a horse to water...... and I agree... ultimately its up to them, and that is why I am still pro choice...... The thing is I have been to a PP service (as a support friend for a female) My experiences was surprised. They are VERY VERY nice..... but the thing is..... its like enabling them..... "oh we are always here for your... we will always take care of you blah blah blah...." I dont recall, a sit down with a case worker that ran them through the gauntlet (not literally, but at least a good sit down). IT was come in for your service, here are some condoms for future use, if you need us we are always here.....


Talk about enabling......


Anyways again, 100% the Parents are paramount, and I hate to say it, but a good percentage of those that use the service.... the parents well.... were lackluster.....

PP provides lots of important services "after the fact" including wellness exams (or referrals) for pregnant women, counseling for proper health care during a pregnancy, counseling for financial and other support resources during & after pregnancy, pre-natal vitamins, etc.

 

[Exactice]

PP provides lots of important services "after the fact" including wellness exams (or referrals) for pregnant women, counseling for proper health care during a pregnancy, counseling for financial and other support resources during & after pregnancy, pre-natal vitamins, etc.

YES YES! YES!! sorry.. please dont take my post as a KNOCK against it.... It has its other purpose, My apologies, I was specific to the thread and my experience about abortions.

PP is exactly that, when you go in for the OTHER services as well its there! They are GREAT again I was there in support of some female friends, but again specific to the one service in question it was not educated upon like I thought it would be. It was "We are here, if you need us we are always here" like saying if you get pregnant again, we can always does this for you.

 

[TheGoverness]

I totally agree. We lucked out - our (step)mom was a nurse and had no problem talking about *anything*. She taught us to protect ourselves should we choose to have sex. This was when most of our peers' parents were saying "thou shalt not do it". Consequently, neither of us got pregnant/caused a pregnancy as a teen.

You got proper sex education and didn't get pregnant? Sounds like sorcery to me. :2razz:

 

[Waddy]

This is actually a bad thing for conservatives. For them, girls doing well is a disaster. Girls are supposed to marry old men and give birth to a half-dozen children.

You do know what "calamity" means, right? As in "Calamity Jane"?