• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

For Pete's Sake: Buttigieg rises in Iowa. Are we going to see a Buttigieg surge?

Buttigieg isn’t my first choice, but he’s always in my top three. If he won the Primary I’d be a happy panda.

If you think the Rights hatred of the first black President was intense, the very thought of a gay man in the WH will have there heads exploding.
 
He's got two big demographic challenges blacks and older voters, which coincidently were two difficult nuts to crack for Sanders. Biden is very familiar, just as the Clintons were, he's been around awhile and fighting the good liberal battles for decades. Blacks still are not very engaged, and won't be until after Iowa because urban issues are not really discussed with focus until later and South Carolina is the first southern contest with a high black population. older voters tend to be a bit more cautious about radical social or political movements and that generation is more suspect of socialism and less comfortable with gay marriage, neither of which got a lot of good press in their younger days. Sanders grabbed the party's anti-Clinton vote ( there was no where else to go) and had the far left of the party and the nation to meld together with young and independent voters who were naturally suspicious of party loyalty and two party myopathy.

Buttigieg sells himself rather differently as representing a new generation both in vision and talent with a techno-savy and innovation centered approach to problem solving, rather than a European social democrat centered approach. But I agree he is unseasoned, and inexperienced on the big stage and we really don't know nearly enough yet beyond his clichés.

The point is that Iowa is a caucus, and passion and commitment is everything in a caucus state. Sanders was a fresh bowl of granola with nuts and berries four years ago, and well - the cereal is a bit soggy now and the oats have molded a bit. Its very difficult for an older flame to re-ignite twice on the same kindling. I don't know how Sanders does that and I think that is going to impede him especially among a younger college crowd. Sanders has literally plateaued in Iowa among likely caucus attendees. He was a 9% last survey in June. He still is. He's not making any headway there while Buttigieg has usurped him to 13%.

Speaking of those college kids that Sanders owned to himself in 2016. Well one thing about South Bend Indiana ,I ts most famous as the stomping ground of a few college kids University of Notre Dame - Wikipedia I think Pete's pretty comfortable on a campus after graduating from Harvard University and then from Pembroke College, Oxford, on a Rhodes Scholarship. He is particularly adept at reflecting that vision.

Good analysis. I think Buttigieg would do very well with certain groups, but would sink like a stone due to his very legit controversies in South Bend. He hasn't received scrutiny for this because he hasn't been a frontrunner.

The Critical Moment of Pete Buttigieg’s Political Career
 
Good analysis. I think Buttigieg would do very well with certain groups, but would sink like a stone due to his very legit controversies in South Bend. He hasn't received scrutiny for this because he hasn't been a frontrunner.

The Critical Moment of Pete Buttigieg’s Political Career
Its definitely a problem but I don't think its insurmountable. Nobody asserts that Pete fired him due to his race, because he reappointed him as soon as he became mayor and there was cause to believe that these lines were illegal ( there was an exception for police) and he did feel that the chief should have informed him about the FBI probe.

Now he admits his error in handling it. But it gets more complicated by that police involved shooting where race was an issue.

Again another parallel with Sanders. Clinton won the black vote in 2016 by 70 percent and Biden is currently the choice of 47% black women to 18% for Sanders. Sanders faces big problem with Biden and black voters | TheHill

Now its harder to pin down the why here because there really isn't much concrete to blame this on. Evidently is more about how Sanders communicates and how he spins their issues into his economic injustice talking points and a rather grouchy approach to being taken off message by BLM in 2016. Here is another article that tries to explain this prior disconnect between people of color and the Sanders campaign of 2016. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/04/why-exactly-does-bernie-sanders-struggle-with-black-and-hispanic-voters-heres-why/
 
Last edited:
Its definitely a problem but I don't think its insurmountable. Nobody asserts that Pete fired him due to his race, because he reappointed him as soon as he became mayor and there was cause to believe that these lines were illegal ( there was an exception for police) and he did feel that the chief should have informed him about the FBI probe.

Now he admits his error in handling it. But it gets more complicated by that police involved shooting where race was an issue.

Again another parallel with Sanders. Clinton won the black vote in 2016 by 70 percent and Biden is currently the choice of 47% black women to 18% for Sanders. Sanders faces big problem with Biden and black voters | TheHill

Now its harder to pin down the why here because there really isn't much concrete to blame this on. Evidently is more about how Sanders communicates and how he spins their issues into his economic injustice talking points and a rather grouchy approach to being taken off message by BLM in 2016. Here is another article that tries to explain this prior disconnect between people of color and the Sanders campaign of 2016. https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/02/04/why-exactly-does-bernie-sanders-struggle-with-black-and-hispanic-voters-heres-why/

Whatever problem Sanders has with minorities has about evaporated, given his strongest demographics are pretty much anything but white males: Myth of the Bernie Bro: Bernie Sanders base is actually pretty diverse - Business Insider

Sanders may be weak on black voters compared to Biden specifically, but that's more Biden being strong with this demographic (which I suspect has much to do with Obama's association/halo effect) than Sanders being weak.

Buttigieg's problems with gathering the black vote are far more serious and egregious, especially in light of the South Bend controversies which he has handled poorly; both he and Warren will face a dauntingly challenging task in getting it onside, and Buttigieg probably most of all.
 
Whatever problem Sanders has with minorities has about evaporated, given his strongest demographics are pretty much anything but white males: Myth of the Bernie Bro: Bernie Sanders base is actually pretty diverse - Business Insider

Sanders may be weak on black voters compared to Biden specifically, but that's more Biden being strong with this demographic (which I suspect has much to do with Obama's association/halo effect) than Sanders being weak.

Buttigieg's problems with gathering the black vote are far more serious and egregious, especially in light of the South Bend controversies which he has handled poorly; both he and Warren will face a dauntingly challenging task in getting it onside, and Buttigieg probably most of all.
Look Sanders has had a several years to work on this issue. He had the same problem with Clinton who was an overwhelming favorite with black voters as well. Matter of fact he is 70 years old and has been in politics for decades and he must still has trouble communicating effectively if he keeps running into candidates who do it better than he does. Maybe you run out of excuses after while .
 
the only country where gun rights are recognized and respected (outside of a few leftist states).

You do realize that amongst the developed nations, gun “rights” are mostly not considered desirable, right?
 
I could see him as Warren's VP. Regardless, he's earned his spot on the national stage of the Dem Party. I think we're going to be hearing from him for a long time.

Would love to see him in a debate with Pence.
 
You do realize that amongst the developed nations, gun “rights” are mostly not considered desirable, right?

They are definitely not desired by governments, but they are certainly desirable by the people, which is why all governments need criminal laws to keep the people from arming themselves.
 
you miss the point.
i don't think i've missed anything. let's all review EXACTLY what you posted:
Lots of straight Democrats are racist. Why would being a gay prevent one from being a racist?

someone claimed he could not or is most likely not a racist because he is a gay Democrat.
and you would be wrong. the forum member said he would not be surprised to learn mayor pete is racist. if you dispute that, just say so, and i with copy/paste the exact quote proving that is what was posted

I noted that being a gay democrat has little, if anything to do, with whether one is a racist or not.
here is your exact quote, one more time:
Lots of straight Democrats are racist. Why would being a gay prevent one from being a racist?
you took the position that mayor pete could be a racist - that his being gay does not prevent him from being a racist

and then i repeatedly challenged you and the other forum member to post anything which would prove mayor pete was racist. neither of you have met that challenge. but that will not prevent you from posting comments which malign his character
 
Good Lord, read much? Again, I said he's probably a racist based on what I've read about him. I did not say that I believe he has racist baggage based on what I have read about him. Yet you keep asking me "what have you read about him which causes you to believe he has racist baggage?"

I don't know how I could make it any clearer.

emphasis added by bubba to document the above forum member's repeated error

you dispute what you said and then immediately again state what you insist you did not
 
I like Mayor Pete. I think he is measured, and well spoken and can get his message across with relative ease.
But he is far too green. I expect to see him do greater things, in the future, but not 2020.
 
I could see him as Warren's VP. Regardless, he's earned his spot on the national stage of the Dem Party. I think we're going to be hearing from him for a long time.

Maybe. If he does it will be to be her moderate foil, to push her agenda in a more measured way. But honestly, I just don't see him on the ticket in 2020. In the future, sure.
 
They are definitely not desired by governments, but they are certainly desirable by the people, which is why all governments need criminal laws to keep the people from arming themselves.

There really isn’t a desire amongst people in Europe for gun ownership. Guns are banned or heavily regulated by the will of the people. Gun ownership in America is seen as a historic anomaly not an issue of freedom at all.
 
Buttigieg is the only candidate who won't grab a woman by the...
 
i'm fine with Buttigieg if he's the nominee. i'm significantly to the left of him, but he is light years better than Mango.

I am to the left on him on a few things, but honestly that isn't my gripe with him for 2020. I think that Trump could really bring out the hate for Pete. That worries me.
 
At present I see him as a potential VP but I think he would do better seeking something else in a new administration, but I must say this guy would give Trump absolute fits as an opponent. He is unconventional in so many ways with no hint of scandal, he appears to very comfortable discussing his Christian faith, and he actually walked the walk of a soldier. He's like a mix of a young Bill Clinton and John Kerry.

There has to be more vetting, especially his husband who will get scrutiny like you and he have never seen before. This is going to be one of the nastiest campaigns in American history. Chasten's a teacher in a middle school. I know how desperate some people with a lot of power and money, will be to smear these two. The Buttigiegs will have to stay very calm, very deliberate and incredibly patient and Pete will have to stay on message and on offense and not allow for distractions based on his orientation or marriage.

If they can accomplish those goals throughout a long campaign, they can certainly be effective in taking this man down. Its just hard for me to imagine my party taking this big a risk with so much at state. I was cynical we'd pick this young black senator over the Clinton team and McCain.

In retrospect I might have been wrong about Obama's chances...

This is where I think he would be best utilized for a Dem Admin. Get himself in the fray on the national level and bide his time. He could really put his stamp on things.
 
Mayor Pete is the exact opposite of Trump in so many ways.

intelligent.

Well spoken.

Young.

Faithful to one person.

Patriotic (without faking it).

I think he has a great future in politics. But he will not get the nomination.

He also fought for his country.
 
It will make things more interesting if Buttigieg wins Iowa, but it ultimately won't matter.

After all, does anyone remember who won the Republican Iowa primary in 2012? It was Rick Santorum. I couldn't remember his name, I had to look it up.

And did you find a link to what Santorum means?
Ah Dan Savage, you bastard!
 
Guns are banned or heavily regulated by the will of the people.

They are banned and heavily regulated by the state, not by "the will of the people" (whatever that means).

Again, you don't need laws forcing you to do something you want to do anyway.
 
I am to the left on him on a few things, but honestly that isn't my gripe with him for 2020. I think that Trump could really bring out the hate for Pete. That worries me.

tRump will bring out the hate from his 38% base no matter which democrat gets the nomination

Barack, Michelle, and Oprah will get out the black vote for the democratic nominee - provided they are in sync with him. there is nothing to indicate mayor pete is out of sync
 
Easy to explain... Buttigieg seems like the only remaining sane somewhat center left hopeful for the Democratic nod left standing... all the others wanting the chance have all gone full tilt on one upping each other in appealing to the furthest left leaving everyone else wondering if they will stay home in 2020.

Buttigieg has a chance... not a great chance, but a chance.

He's getting a lot of help from the MSM, thats for sure- seems their agenda is to get Booty-judge as the front runner, even though his numbers are dead with black voters.
 
See, that is the problem.....YOU don't see it.

But you are terribly behind the times.

But to AOCW's point, there are a lot of folk out there that may not actively announce their bigotry toward gays, but would still never vote for one.
Now, that said, with the size of the youth voting block ready to vote in 2020, if they actually showed up to vote their ideals, it might counter the numbers of people who simply "would never".
 
emphasis added by bubba to document the above forum member's repeated error

you dispute what you said and then immediately again state what you insist you did not

Because "him being a racist" and "him having racist baggage" are two very different things. You can be a racist without having any discernible racist baggage.

I think he's probably a racist based on how poorly he has dealt with the black people in South Bend, and how he has handled the nearly all white police department.

I suspect that somewhere in his past he has done or said something which will be construed as racist, because that seems to be a common pattern. I don't claim to have any evidence, it's just a hunch.
 
Back
Top Bottom