Florida man could avoid charges in fatal shooting because of 'stand your ground' law

[Atheist 2020]

The stand your ground law is really a get out of jail law. I support the Castle Law, and that law, you have the right to use a firearm on someone within your home.

 

[iliveonramen]

Thanks. IMHO Confronting people illegally using handicap spaces is a good thing, I worked with a wheelchair user and he would park his chair behind illegal users and call the cops.

Parking in a handicap spot is a douchebag move. Im not suprised this happened in Clearwater, place is a ****hole.

People emboldened to escalate things by having a gun and feeling like they have a right to use it is a problem. This 47 year old man wouldnt act in this manner without the gun.

 

[calamity]

Well, yeah, I understand it was a handicap parking spot and he had a HC pass. The guy strutting out of the convenience store and pushing the guy down was definitely not the right move. However, in the clip I don't see him making any further threatening gestures and there's no sound. IMHO this is probably not a good example of stand your ground, pending any addition facts.

Agreed. It's a bad example for SYG, but in a way that makes it really worth exploring.

Disclaimer. I think the guy playing handicap parking cop with a CCW was being an asshole. But, I also think the woman who refused to move her car was being a bitch.

That being said, just being an asshole is not grounds for being shoved to the ground. So, we have a clear case of assault from the dead guy. He really should not have shoved the guy to the ground...even if the guy was being an asshole. And, I wonder. Would he have shoved a bigger younger guy to the ground, or did he only shove the weak older man because he thought he could get away with it?

The grey is. At what point can the guy shoot? And, like I said in one of the other threads. If the dead guy had his back turned and was facing his girlfriend (who he supposedly was protecting), then the old guy would have to shoot him in the back. And, that would be clear cut murder.

The dead guy did not turn his back. Instead he was facing the old man who is lying on the ground. And, that is problematic, because it can be assumed that the guy on the ground was in a vulnerable position. He shot in self-defense. And, maybe he did. :shrug:

 

[iliveonramen]

Just a note. Florida law was changed recently that the burden of proof isnt that someone feared for his life but that it can be proven he didn’t.

 

[chuckiechan]

Agreed. It's a bad example for SYG, but in a way that makes it really worth exploring.

Disclaimer. I think the guy playing handicap parking cop with a CCW was being an asshole. But, I also think the woman who refused to move her car was being a bitch.

That being said, just being an asshole is not grounds for being shoved to the ground. So, we have a clear case of assault from the dead guy. He really should not have shoved the guy to the ground...even if the guy was being an asshole. And, I wonder. Would he have shoved a bigger younger guy to the ground, or did he only shove the weak older man because he thought he could get away with it?

The grey is. At what point can the guy shoot? And, like I said in one of the other threads. If the dead guy had his back turned and was facing his girlfriend (who he supposedly was protecting), then the old guy would have to shoot him in the back. And, that would be clear cut murder.

The dead guy did not turn his back. Instead he was facing the old man who is lying on the ground. And, that is problematic, because it can be assumed that the guy on the ground was in a vulnerable position. He shot in self-defense. And, maybe he did. :shrug:

JESUS ****ING CHRIST. You and I actually agree on something! LOL!

 

[Bullseye]

Parking in a handicap spot is a douchebag move. Im not suprised this happened in Clearwater, place is a ****hole.

People emboldened to escalate things by having a gun and feeling like they have a right to use it is a problem. This 47 year old man wouldnt act in this manner without the gun.

Well, yeah, the victim was huge compared to the shooter and almost twenty years younger.

 

[calamity]

Just a note. Florida law was changed recently that the burden of proof isnt that someone feared for his life but that it can be proven he didn’t.

That's important information. Thanks.

 

[Bullseye]

Agreed. It's a bad example for SYG, but in a way that makes it really worth exploring.

Disclaimer. I think the guy playing handicap parking cop with a CCW was being an asshole. But, I also think the woman who refused to move her car was being a bitch.

That being said, just being an asshole is not grounds for being shoved to the ground. So, we have a clear case of assault from the dead guy. He really should not have shoved the guy to the ground...even if the guy was being an asshole. And, I wonder. Would he have shoved a bigger younger guy to the ground, or did he only shove the weak older man because he thought he could get away with it?

The grey is. At what point can the guy shoot? And, like I said in one of the other threads. If the dead guy had his back turned and was facing his girlfriend (who he supposedly was protecting), then the old guy would have to shoot him in the back. And, that would be clear cut murder.

The dead guy did not turn his back. Instead he was facing the old man who is lying on the ground. And, that is problematic, because it can be assumed that the guy on the ground was in a vulnerable position. He shot in self-defense. And, maybe he did. :shrug:

I could see using the gun to deter further assault from the victim; sometimes the mere presence of a weapon deters assaulters. From what I saw on the vid, actual shooting wasn't necessary. I don't see any aggressive movement from victim. Be interesting to hear what was said.

 

[AGENT J]

Just a note. Florida law was changed recently that the burden of proof isnt that someone feared for his life but that it can be proven he didn’t.

Correct the law was changed to make it even easier to shoot somebody unjustified IMO and makes it even more grey. its the worse SYG law that i know of and I dont support it, while i do support others.

I guess(hope) what eventually will happen though is a national standard will be created, and it certainly wont be based on Florida.

 

[Nap]

I like stand your ground law as I don't think you should have a duty to retreat from a violent attacker, however I don't believe it should be applied in this case as once he pushed the man over the original attacker took a step back and thus no reasonable threat to his life. If the man was moving towards the person on the ground with the intention to continue the assault I feel it would have been justified, but that is not what I saw in the video. This was a bad shoot and he should face the consequences of his actions imo.

 

[Taylor]

He ceased being a threat as soon as the gun was drawn. There was never any need to pull the trigger.

Both of those men let their emotions get the best of them. One has some scrapes and bruises. The other is dead. Neither action was justified.

 

[Nap]

He ceased being a threat as soon as the gun was drawn. There was never any need to pull the trigger.

Both of those men let their emotions get the best of them. One has some scrapes and bruises. The other is dead. Neither action was justified.

I would take it even further, it appeared immediately after the push the man took a step back (before the guy was able to even draw the gun) and was no longer a threat. The other guy should have pulled the gun, walk away, and then call the police on the man that attacked him and be done with it.

 

[Beaudreaux]

https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/23/us/florida-stand-your-ground-fatal-shooting/index.html

"Sheriff Gualtieri said the only relevant issue is whether Drejka was in fear of further bodily harm from McGlockton." Of which there was no indication that it would occur

This is insane. An argument over a parking space costs a man his life. The guy who shot him started a confrontation (and when he was thrown to the ground (and no more) he shot the guy who stopped him from harassing his girlfriend

Do this simple thing - go to Google and do a search for “dies when thrown to ground” and see how many different stories pop up.

I could post some LiveLeak videos showing people getting killed by being thrown to the ground, but I prefer not do so, and it would probably be a rule violation, and in bad taste. You can go there and look them up though. One was posted there just a couple days ago.

 

[Nap]

I don't know all the particulars of the case but from looking at the video McGlockton came up to Drejka & very forcefully shoved Drejka to the ground.
McGlockton committed a physical assault via that action.

Drejka had no idea if the man was going to do anything further so, he shot the man.

Lesson? If you don't want to be shot, possibly killed, then don't be an asshole and physically assault others.

I pretty much agree in principle, however given the distance between the 2 and the fact the original attacker took a step back, once he had his gun drawn I don't believe there is a reasonable threat to the man's life to justify the shooting.

 

[chuckiechan]

I could see using the gun to deter further assault from the victim; sometimes the mere presence of a weapon deters assaulters. From what I saw on the vid, actual shooting wasn't necessary. I don't see any aggressive movement from victim. Be interesting to hear what was said.

That is called “brandishing a weapon”, and in California is a crime in and of itself. Warning shot? “Illegal discharge of a firearm”. “Double tap”. Say be the difference between self defense and manslaughter.

BTW, why so sexist? No “womanslaughter”.

 

[Crosscheck]

I like stand your ground law as I don't think you should have a duty to retreat from a violent attacker, however I don't believe it should be applied in this case as once he pushed the man over the original attacker took a step back and thus no reasonable threat to his life. If the man was moving towards the person on the ground with the intention to continue the assault I feel it would have been justified, but that is not what I saw in the video. This was a bad shoot and he should face the consequences of his actions imo.

A lot will depend on the demeanor of the shooter before the boyfriend came out of the store. According to the news story a witness came into the store and told the clerk a man was harassing a woman in a car. That doesn't sound like a simple questioning one's right to park in parking spot. It sounds more like a hot head screaming at someone.

The shooter should have waited for the driver to come out to the car to unload on him. Harassing someone's girlfriend or wife is asking for it. You yell at my wife and you are going to get to know me personally.

 

[Nap]

A lot will depend on the demeanor of the shooter before the boyfriend came out of the store. According to the news story a witness came into the store and told the clerk a man was harassing a woman in a car. That doesn't sound like a simple questioning one's right to park in parking spot. It sounds more like a hot head screaming at someone.

The shooter should have waited for the driver to come out to the car to unload on him. Harassing someone's girlfriend or wife is asking for it. You yell at my wife and you are going to get to know me personally.

I think you may have quoted the wrong person, I don't believe SYG should apply to this as he was not a reasonable threat at the time he shot.

 

[justabubba]

A lot will depend on the demeanor of the shooter before the boyfriend came out of the store.

i don't know why you find that essential or important information. we know that there was no physical conflict between the driver and the subsequent shooter

According to the news story a witness came into the store and told the clerk a man was harassing a woman in a car. That doesn't sound like a simple questioning one's right to park in parking spot. It sounds more like a hot head screaming at someone.

that screaming hothead may have been the driver; the person who chose NOT to park her car legally. but again, it does not matter whether their conversation was whispered or shouted, it was a verbal discussion - unlike what was about to happen: a physical assault

The shooter should have waited for the driver to come out to the car to unload on him.

why? as i read the article, it was the baby mama who was the driver. and that is who the subsequent shooter was speaking with regarding her failure to refrain from parking in a space which is dedicated to those who are documented as handicapped

not sure whether the subsequent shooter even knew that the driver's significant other was then in the store. but it appears he was addressing the illegal parking issue with the driver of the illegally parked vehicle. nothing about that strikes me as "odd"

Harassing someone's girlfriend or wife is asking for it.

oh no. just because she is female does not mean she is incapable of objectionable behavior. a sane person would find out what was going on between the two instead of escalating things by attacking the party who is unknown to him

You yell at my wife and you are going to get to know me personally.

if your wife does or says something which results in our having an animated conversation, i would welcome your eventual presence

 

[Napoleon]

As I see it, when you initiate physical violence against anybody, you instantly forfeit any expectation of your own personal safety or security.

Perhaps, but this isn’t the first time that someone instigated a violent confrontation and used stand your ground as an excuse to end it with homicide. The law should not shield such people from criminal liability. People should not be free to run around starting fights and legally shoot someone dead because they’re losing.

 

[apdst]

The shooter has a history of picking fights.

The shooter was actually yelling at a woman in the car. Someone came and told the cashier some guy was harassing a woman im a car. It was the girlfriend of the man killed. He was in the store buying candy for his kid. He went outside, pushed the guy yelling at his girl, gets shot.

He shouldn't have assaulted Drejka.

 

[justabubba]

Perhaps, but this isn’t the first time that someone instigated a violent confrontation and used stand your ground as an excuse to end it with homicide. The law should not shield such people from criminal liability. People should not be free to run around starting fights and legally shoot someone dead because they’re losing.

i look at it from a different perspective
be responsible for your own behavior
know that if you choose to physically attack someone, you have just given that person license to kill you in self defense

 

[Napoleon]

i look at it from a different perspective
be responsible for your own behavior
know that if you choose to physically attack someone, you have just given that person license to kill you in self defense

That’s not something I accept. There need to be reasonable limitations on what that means. Commiting homicide shouldn’t be a legal option just because you started a fight and got your ass handed to you. There is no interpretation of this video that leads to a reasonable conclusion that his life was at imminent risk. He started a confrontation, he was pushed to he ground, the other man appears to have advanced towards him, he pulled out his piece, and the man backed off. It could have ended there, but he chose to sit there and watch the man back away before shooting him in the chest. Pushing is bad manners, but it shouldn’t be a capital offense.

 

[Oborosen]

Unfortunately, when the confrontation escalates to physical action, such as that push. The possibilities of the outcome are shot into a whole new level, especially in the eyes of the law. It is a high possibility that he will get of with such a verdict, because having an argument isn't considered a violent act, nor promoting a violent act.

It really does suck to be honest. No one should have to get shot for just pushing someone down, but he did come at the guy out of the blue like that and I have seen more than a few cases that flew the same way as this one. Especially when the knockout game was in full swing and people got either shot or stabbed for attempting to do it sucker punch someone.

 

[apdst]

That’s not something I accept. There need to be reasonable limitations on what that means. Commiting homicide shouldn’t be a legal option just because you started a fight and got your ass handed to you. There is no interpretation of this video that leads to a reasonable conclusion that his life was at imminent risk. He started a confrontation, he was pushed to he ground, the other man appears to have advanced towards him, he pulled out his piece, and the man backed off. It could have ended there, but he chose to sit there and watch the man back away before shooting him in the chest. Pushing is bad manners, but it shouldn’t be a capital offense.

And that's when Drejka had grounds to defend himself.

 

[Napoleon]

And that's when Drejka had grounds to defend himself.

Except that is not when Drejka fired the gun. Drejka drew the gun and waited for him to back off before shooting him.