First muslim mayor of londonistan

[German guy]

You see, this is the problem I have with discussions like this: here we have a practicing Muslim, integrated and behaving in a way that all those anti-Muslim posters insist modern, westernised Muslims should behave, and what happens? A slip of the tongue, or a poor choice of words and apparently we're seeing behind the curtain at something dark and sinister. Is he really a crypto-fundy? Forget a career of service, a track record of fighting extremism or a history of working with colleagues across every social grouping. "He said 'Uncle Tom'! What a deplorable individual!" And apparently the PC language police is a phenomenon of the Left. Not round here it isn't.

Yeah, there isn't just left-wing "PC". There is a different kind of "PC" on the right-wing, too.

 

[Red_Dave]

I just always thought of religious people as kind of conservative. I wouldn't expect a self-proclaimed Christian to belong to a socialist organisation, either.
Apparently I've been making a wrong assumption.

Actually its assumption that would only be made in your part of the world within the last 20 years or so, Look at MLK for example. The Christian right is actually a huge historical abberation.

 

[Higgins86]

I remember when I joined DP, I'd often see comments referring to President Obama as a Muslim. He's not, but I asked numerous times if there would be something wrong with him being a Muslim in their eyes if he was. I never got an answer to that. Now the bigotry and hatred of all Muslims is very much evident in certain posts on DP, as displayed here, some don't even try to hide it anymore.

So I'll ask again to those participating in the thread who have a problem with this. What exactly is wrong with being appointed Mayor of London when you are a Muslim?

We live in a country that has moved away from religion and a majority of the population would call themselves either agnostic or atheist. For me in an ideal world the major of London would be a progressive who is not restricted by his beliefs.

 

[Serenity]

We live in a country that has moved away from religion and a majority of the population would call themselves either agnostic or atheist. For me in an ideal world the major of London would be a progressive who is not restricted by his beliefs.

Considering your Monarch holds the title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England and your Prime Minister is a Christian who referred to Britain as a Christian Country only recently, it appears that they have not got the memo yet :lol:

 

[Higgins86]

Considering your Monarch holds the title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England and your Prime Minister is a Christian who referred to Britain as a Christian Country only recently, it appears that they have not got the memo yet :lol:

As you know though she is purely ceremonial and as for Cameron he uses the words Christian pretty loosely, I don't think he even goes to church.
I believe only 30 percent of the U.K consider themselves religious

 

[yankintx]

No, I am ready, prepared.. And I know which side I'm on..

If Trump wins, do we all get white robes and caps, or are those just for the true believers like yourself?

 

[sanman]

What do you base your assumption on? Do you have any *facts* that support your speculation?

What makes you think Khan is really more Muslim than many Christians in Britain are Christians -- which means hardly, except formally?

Sure - FACT: Khan has gone out of his way to provide legal defense to Islamist extremists, including one imprisoned in Guantanamo. If someone was running for mayor who'd given defense to various British skinheads guilty of beating up Pakistanis, then you'd be hollering from the rooftops that this person was unfit to run as mayor. Note that Khan has not defended any skinheads, either - he defends his own.

I don't know Khan well enough to really know what kind of person he is. But when it's about Westernized Muslims like Özdemir in Germany, it's so friggin obvious that he's just a normal Westernized guy who just formally happens to be Muslim, but not pious in any way, who will *always* choose loyalty to his party platform over loyalty to other Muslims he politically disagrees with, any time of the day.

Khan has referred to moderate Muslims as "Uncle Toms" - how is that a good thing?

These "Muslims stick together" talk just becomes a conspiracy theory in cases like this. Some Muslims don't define their identity primarily by their religious affiliation; they're not any more "Muslim" than most secular Christians in Europe are "Christian" -- and many other defining factors have priority for them, religion being just one among many, as it should be.

I'm Indian, so I have a lot more interaction with Pakistanis than you do. My mother was born in Lahore, Pakistan's oldest city. I have a pretty good knowledge of Pakistani culture and political behavior.

 

[yankintx]

Sure - FACT: Khan has gone out of his way to provide legal defense to Islamist extremists, including one imprisoned in Guantanamo. If someone was running for mayor who'd given defense to various British skinheads guilty of beating up Pakistanis, then you'd be hollering from the rooftops that this person was unfit to run as mayor. Note that Khan has not defended any skinheads, either - he defends his own.




Khan has referred to moderate Muslims as "Uncle Toms" - how is that a good thing?



I'm Indian, so I have a lot more interaction with Pakistanis than you do. My mother was born in Lahore, Pakistan's oldest city. I have a pretty good knowledge of Pakistani culture and political behavior.

Links please, and you being an Indian is not a scholarly source.

 

[HonestJoe]

Considering your Monarch holds the title of Supreme Governor of the Church of England and your Prime Minister is a Christian who referred to Britain as a Christian Country only recently, it appears that they have not got the memo yet :lol:

Britain is theocratic in name but secular by nature (unlike the USA which is the exact opposite).

 

[sanman]

Links please, and you being an Indian is not a scholarly source.

Links for what in particular? And German guy's personal opinion doesn't make for a scholarly source either, so don't play glass-half-empty/glass-half-full with me.

Would you like links to how Islamists treat homosexuals? Would you like links to incidents of violence against homosexuals by Islamists living in the West?



So my point is, the more that Islamic views are legitimized - including the intolerant onces - then the more rights of particular groups will be put at risk. After all, LGBT demographics are not multiplying as fast as Muslim demographics are. The new mayor of London was born as one of eight children - that's pretty typical.

 

[yankintx]

Links for what in particular? And German guy's personal opinion doesn't make for a scholarly source either, so don't play glass-half-empty/glass-half-full with me.

Would you like links to how Islamists treat homosexuals? Would you like links to incidents of violence against homosexuals by Islamists living in the West?



So my point is, the more that Islamic views are legitimized - including the intolerant onces - then the more rights of particular groups will be put at risk. After all, LGBT demographics are not multiplying as fast as Muslim demographics are. The new mayor of London was born as one of eight children - that's pretty typical.

No, as a gay man who has lived in the middle east, I know how they are treated. I merely asked for a link to prove that the new mayor has defended terrorist in his profession as a lawyer, chill out.

 

[sanman]

No, as a gay man who has lived in the middle east, I know how they are treated. I merely asked for a link to prove that the new mayor has defended terrorist in his profession as a lawyer, chill out.

Take a look at Khan's own website:

Tooting MP pushes Foreign Office for Guantanamo detainee’s release - Sadiq Khan MP

Here's more:

Sadiq Khan: A fighter of causes - Telegraph



Extremist views: Labour terror error as Tories fear rout in London mayor contest


https://warsclerotic.wordpress.com/2016/05/08/londons-new-muslim-mayor-extremist-or-opportunist/


Here's the most important link of all:

Google is your Friend

 

[sanman]

Oh wait, here's more - a tweet from Nasser Butt, a Muslim from the Ahmadi sect of Islam - a sect which Mr Khan insists does not deserve to be allowed to call itself Muslim

https://twitter.com/buttnasser/status/729567455874424832

You see, Mr Sadiq Khan considers some sects of Islam to be heretics - as do a lot of Pakistanis

 

[yankintx]

Oh wait, here's more - a tweet from Nasser Butt, a Muslim from the Ahmadi sect of Islam - a sect which Mr Khan insists does not deserve to be allowed to call itself Muslim

https://twitter.com/buttnasser/status/729567455874424832

You see, Mr Sadiq Khan considers some sects of Islam to be heretics - as do a lot of Pakistanis

If you had not included the sarcasm, I would have bothered to read your links, oh and a blog is not a scholarly source. Try again? Without the sarcasm

 

[Serenity]

We live in a country that has moved away from religion and a majority of the population would call themselves either agnostic or atheist. For me in an ideal world the major of London would be a progressive who is not restricted by his beliefs.

Does it bother you more that he is a Muslim rather than a Christian though like it clearly does others? Would a Christian Mayor of London be scrutinised as a result of his religious beliefs in the same way as Khan is and has been? Look at the thread title here for instance. "First Muslim mayor of Londonistan". "Londonistan"? How do you feel about that? Do you believe that idiotic nonsense has any bearing on reality at all?

I took a brief look through a thread over in the EU Forum that was titled "Europe will soon have more Muslims than Christians." The suggestion (at least from the article) is that it's not because there are too many Muslims, it is because Christians are generally less practising these days.

 

[Serenity]

Britain is theocratic in name but secular by nature (unlike the USA which is the exact opposite).

Note to self:

Never mind the bollocks when listening to Britains national anthem :2razz:

 

[blarg]

Oh wait, here's more - a tweet from Nasser Butt, a Muslim from the Ahmadi sect of Islam - a sect which Mr Khan insists does not deserve to be allowed to call itself Muslim

https://twitter.com/buttnasser/status/729567455874424832

You see, Mr Sadiq Khan considers some sects of Islam to be heretics - as do a lot of Pakistanis

thats religion for you can be nasty stuff

 

[sanman]

If you had not included the sarcasm, I would have bothered to read your links, oh and a blog is not a scholarly source. Try again? Without the sarcasm

No further tries are necessary - the case has already been proven, whether you choose to read it or not is of little consequence.

He's defended Guantanamo detainees, because they're from his precious community. Hasn't defended any British skinheads or IRA, but Islamist terrorists are his preferred sympathetic cases.

 

[Higgins86]

Does it bother you more that he is a Muslim rather than a Christian though like it clearly does others? Would a Christian Mayor of London be scrutinised as a result of his religious beliefs in the same way as Khan is and has been? Look at the thread title here for instance. "First Muslim mayor of Londonistan". "Londonistan"? How do you feel about that? Do you believe that idiotic nonsense has any bearing on reality at all?

I took a brief look through a thread over in the EU Forum that was titled "Europe will soon have more Muslims than Christians." The suggestion (at least from the article) is that it's not because there are too many Muslims, it is because Christians are generally less practising these days.

Khan doesn't really worry me as he is pretty moderate and is LGBT record is pretty good etc, As Muslim's go he is extremely Liberal.
I would be lying if I said that the increase in Muslims immigrants didn't worry me though, mostly because many Muslims communities have become quite secular and they don't share a lot of basic beliefs on Women's rights, Gay rights etc.

Now we are partly to blame for this as we have done such a poor job at integrating them into British society and divisions have been drawn because of the War on Terror etc. I think that Khan being Mayor could be good thing as it might help bridge the gap, we also need to do a better job at integrating our Schools. They have done in a few towns like Blackburn and the result's have been positive.

Can you make schools integrate? - BBC News

Good article on the subject.

However there also needs to be changes within the Muslim community as well. There needs to be an understanding that we in Britain do not let religion dictate policy anymore and that their religious beliefs come second to our laws.

 

[nota bene]

The real question is whether such changes can be effected and how long these will take. The change has to come from within, doesn't it, so do you think Khan will be unifier?

 

[Chagos]

.......................He's defended Guantanamo detainees, ..................

convicted ones?

 

[sanman]

convicted ones?

I dunno - you can probably Google it.

But the guy also campaigned for overturning the ban on Louis Farrakhan entering Britain. Why won't he do the same for Geert Wilders?

 

[ThirdTerm]

This new London mayor may actually have extremist links and he aligned himself with known extremists in the past, such as Sajeel Abu Ibrahim, a member of al-Muhajiroun. London unwittingly elected a dangerous man to replace Boris Johnson, while embracing multiculturalism, and Khan’s Islamist past should have disqualified him.

The seeds were sown with Khan’s now-former in-laws. During London’s ’90s Islamist heyday, Khan’s brother-in-law Makbool Javaid was affiliated and listed as a spokesman to the now-banned terrorist group al-Muhajiroun, founded by the hate preacher Omar Bakri Muhammad, and then led by the infamous fanatic Anjem Choudary. I knew of Makbool back then, too. His brothers were colleagues of mine, affiliated to my former extremist organization, Hizb ut-Tahrir. Through such connections Khan ingratiated himself in the London Islamist scene. In 2003, he appeared at a conference alongside Sajeel Abu Ibrahim, a member of that same banned al-Muhajiroun.
The Secret Life of Sadiq Khan, London's First Muslim Mayor - The Daily Beast

 

[International10]

I remember when I joined DP, I'd often see comments referring to President Obama as a Muslim. He's not, but I asked numerous times if there would be something wrong with him being a Muslim in their eyes if he was. I never got an answer to that. Now the bigotry and hatred of all Muslims is very much evident in certain posts on DP, as displayed here, some don't even try to hide it anymore.

So I'll ask again to those participating in the thread who have a problem with this. What exactly is wrong with being appointed Mayor of London when you are a Muslim?

Islam unlike Race, Sex, Sexuality is not something you are born with. It is an ideology that you are indoctrinated with. It is a belief system that is central to a person's worldview in the same way as if someone were a Christian an Anarchist, a White Supremacist or a Socialist.

So it is a disagreement with the underlying ideology of Islam that is Homophobic, Misogynistic and generally in opposition to many basic Human rights. So while there are obvious subjective levels of how committed an individual is to this ideology one can still perceive an ideology such as Islam negatively and use that to weigh a candidate in the same way as if the candidate were a Buddhist or a Communist.