Fake Jesus is bad for your education.

[Atheist 2020]

As a atheist, I need to have a better understanding of God and Jesus: then the average Christian. If Jesus was alive, he had to understand reading and writing of Greek: plus the 12 men that followed him also. Because, the early writing of Jesus was in Greek. Greek, was spoken in the area were Jesus was: but, it was not the common speaking and reading of Jewish religious people during the first century during the first half of that century. If I was a fisherman, I have business skills dealing with fishing and selling of the fish: and feeding myself. I would have some basic skills speaking Greek, and that's all the skills they had. Leaving the business of getting fish and selling it for a man that is poor and not connected to any religious group is irrational. Following a man that is poor, and has a death wish to be killed --makes Jesus to be mentally ill.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

As a atheist, I need to have a better understanding of God and Jesus: then the average Christian. If Jesus was alive, he had to understand reading and writing of Greek: plus the 12 men that followed him also. Because, the early writing of Jesus was in Greek. Greek, was spoken in the area were Jesus was: but, it was not the common speaking and reading of Jewish religious people during the first century during the first half of that century. If I was a fisherman, I have business skills dealing with fishing and selling of the fish: and feeding myself. I would have some basic skills speaking Greek, and that's all the skills they had. Leaving the business of getting fish and selling it for a man that is poor and not connected to any religious group is irrational. Following a man that is poor, and has a death wish to be killed --makes Jesus to be mentally ill.

Here ya go:

It is generally agreed by historians that Jesus and his disciples primarily spoke Aramaic (Jewish Palestinian Aramaic), the common language of Judea in the first century AD, most likely a Galilean dialect distinguishable from that of Jerusalem.[1] The villages of Nazareth and Capernaum in Galilee, where Jesus spent most of his time, were Aramaic-speaking communities.[2] It is also likely that Jesus knew enough Koine Greek to converse with those not native to Palestine, and it is also possible that Jesus knew some Hebrew for religious purposes.[3][4][5]

Language of Jesus - Wikipedia

That's speculation, of course. Jesus wrote nothing down.

 

[Omega Man]

As a atheist, I need to have a better understanding of God and Jesus: then the average Christian. If Jesus was alive, he had to understand reading and writing of Greek: plus the 12 men that followed him also. Because, the early writing of Jesus was in Greek. Greek, was spoken in the area were Jesus was: but, it was not the common speaking and reading of Jewish religious people during the first century during the first half of that century. If I was a fisherman, I have business skills dealing with fishing and selling of the fish: and feeding myself. I would have some basic skills speaking Greek, and that's all the skills they had. Leaving the business of getting fish and selling it for a man that is poor and not connected to any religious group is irrational. Following a man that is poor, and has a death wish to be killed --makes Jesus to be mentally ill.

You bring up an interesting point. Galilee, as a province somewhat isolated from the rest of Judea, was much more influenced by Hellenism than their mountainous southern neighbors; so it would stand to reason that the Greek language would have been a rather dominant influence at the time. Now of the 12 men who followed him (according to the tales), I believe only 2 or 3 were themselves Galileans? Lastly, despite the obviously biased premise of your OP, one must take into consideration that peoples and cultures of superstitious antiquity weren’t necessarily constrained by 21st rationalism; especially if it turns out they were writing tales and accounts heavy on fiction.


OM

 

[Atheist 2020]

Here ya go:


Language of Jesus - Wikipedia

That's speculation, of course. Jesus wrote nothing down.

Speaking different languages with 13 men and one leader who was at the time a cult leader. If you could follow him for a week -- you would understand he had a death wish. And 12 men decided to follow a man with a death wish, it begs the question -- why are you leaving your religion just to see your leader die?

 

[Daisy]

True, the majority of the apostles and early disciples had no college education...they were just ordinary “common men,” but with help from the true source of all wisdom/knowledge, God’s spirit, they became qualified as preachers...

What better way to prove to everyone that their knowledge/wisdom was not of their own accord, but from God Himself? No one is competent in himself but each dedicated servant of Jehovah may rely on Jehovah to qualify him adequately for the ministry, for it is Jehovah’s message, not man's...

"Now when they saw the outspokenness of Peter and John, and perceived that they were uneducated and ordinary men, they were astonished. And they began to realize that they had been with Jesus." Acts 4:13

"So when I came to you, brothers, I did not come with extravagant speech or wisdom declaring the sacred secret of God to you. For I decided not to know anything among you except Jesus Christ, and him executed on the stake. And I came to you in weakness and in fear and with much trembling; and my speech and what I preached were not with persuasive words of wisdom but with a demonstration of spirit and power, so that your faith might be, not in men’s wisdom, but in God’s power." 1 Corinthians 2:1-5

"We have this sort of confidence toward God through the Christ. Not that we of ourselves are adequately qualified to consider that anything comes from us, but our being adequately qualified comes from God," 2 Corinthians 3:4,5

"Look out that no one takes you captive by means of the philosophy and empty deception according to human tradition, according to the elementary things of the world and not according to Christ;" Colossians 2:8

 

[Atheist 2020]

You bring up an interesting point. Galilee, as a province somewhat isolated from the rest of Judea, was much more influenced by Hellenism than their mountainous southern neighbors; so it would stand to reason that the Greek language would have been a rather dominant influence at the time. Now of the 12 men who followed him (according to the tales), I believe only 2 or 3 were themselves Galileans? Lastly, despite the obviously biased premise of your OP, one must take into consideration that peoples and cultures of superstitious antiquity weren’t necessarily constrained by 21st rationalism; especially if it turns out they were writing tales and accounts heavy on fiction.


OM

Were Jesus lived as a child and a teenager: was less than three miles from a Greek speaking city. It makes better sense to believe that a Greek culture of the second half of the first century designed and organized what Jesus was during the second half of the first century and into the second century. If you study other religions in the Eastern Roman Empire, it was designed for the middle-class or the wealthy. Jesus was designed for the poor slave population. That is the reason Jesus had to die. Because a slave could be killed by his or her owner.

 

[Logicman]

Jesus was designed for the poor slave population. That is the reason Jesus had to die. Because a slave could be killed by his or her owner.

That's not correct. Jesus' salvation is for everyone who believes (John 3:16) - smart or not, free or slave.

Also, who do you contend "designed" Jesus? Please provide your evidence for your response.

 

[RAMOSS]

That's not correct. Jesus' salvation is for everyone who believes (John 3:16) - smart or not, free or slave.

Also, who do you contend "designed" Jesus? Please provide your evidence for your response.

Other than religious dogma from Christians, let's see you show that 'salvation' is even needed.

 

[Rich2018]

Other than religious dogma from Christians, let's see you show that 'salvation' is even needed.

Other than religious dogma from Christians, "salvation" doesn't exist*


*not sure if other Abrahamic religions preach salvation also.

 

[RAMOSS]

Other than religious dogma from Christians, "salvation" doesn't exist*


*not sure if other Abrahamic religions preach salvation also.

Judaism does not.

 

[Atheist 2020]

That's not correct. Jesus' salvation is for everyone who believes (John 3:16) - smart or not, free or slave.

During the second century, Greek Christian vales were in Greece and Rome, the Coptic Christians were in Egypt. During that century, there was a number of popes, and none in the holy land were Jesus practice his religion. Sure we have John 3:16, and in America we had slavery -- but we never allowed a slave to read or right so they can read John 3:16. During the American Civil War: nobody in the south would ever think a slave and the slave master were equal to each other -- and both can enter heaven.

Also, who do you contend "designed" Jesus? Please provide your evidence for your response.

We have to ask, why the first written story of Jesus was in Greek. Jesus did not speak in Greek, nor, in the Bible did Jesus speak to a group of Romans or Greeks. If I was a educated Greek in the first half of the first century -- I understand Plato. If I want to destroy the Jewish religion: I design the history of Jesus from birth to death; make the Jews the people that killed Jesus, and make sure the Jews suffer. If I was a educated Greek in the second century: I want to make Christian values be Greek values of my century.

 

[Logicman]

During the second century, Greek Christian vales were in Greece and Rome, the Coptic Christians were in Egypt. During that century, there was a number of popes, and none in the holy land were Jesus practice his religion. Sure we have John 3:16, and in America we had slavery -- but we never allowed a slave to read or right so they can read John 3:16. During the American Civil War: nobody in the south would ever think a slave and the slave master were equal to each other -- and both can enter heaven.

Pretty sure the slave Onesimus (Philemon chapter 1) heard the Gospel from the Apostle Paul sometime midway or shortly thereafter in the 1st century. And I'm pretty sure there were others also. They didn't have to read about it but just hear about the salvation of Christ.

We have to ask, why the first written story of Jesus was in Greek. Jesus did not speak in Greek, nor, in the Bible did Jesus speak to a group of Romans or Greeks. If I was a educated Greek in the first half of the first century -- I understand Plato. If I want to destroy the Jewish religion: I design the history of Jesus from birth to death; make the Jews the people that killed Jesus, and make sure the Jews suffer. If I was a educated Greek in the second century: I want to make Christian values be Greek values of my century.

Jesus and his disciples spoke Greek.

"Here are SOME the places where Jesus and the disciples are seen as quoting from the Greek translation of the OT:

Matt. 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 – behold, a “virgin” shall conceive. Hebrew – behold, a “young woman” shall conceive.
Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23 / Isaiah 40:3 – make “His paths straight.” Hebrew – make “level in the desert a highway.”
Matt. 12:21 / Isaiah 42:4 – in His name will the Gentiles hope (or trust). Hebrew – the isles shall wait for his law.
Luke 3:5-6 / Isaiah 40:4-5 – crooked be made straight, rough ways smooth, shall see salvation. Hebrew – omits these phrases.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 61:1 – and recovering of sight to the blind. Hebrew – the opening of prison to them that are bound.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 58:6 – to set at liberty those that are oppressed (or bruised). Hebrew – to let the oppressed go free.
If we take a look at Luke 4, we see that Jesus was verbally preaching the above-mentioned texts which were found in the Greek translation of Isaiah. In other words, we have some scriptural evidence that Christ spoke and read Greek..."

Did Jesus & His Disciples Speak Greek? | Reasons for Jesus

 

[RAMOSS]

Pretty sure the slave Onesimus (Philemon chapter 1) heard the Gospel from the Apostle Paul sometime midway or shortly thereafter in the 1st century. And I'm pretty sure there were others also. They didn't have to read about it but just hear about the salvation of Christ.



Jesus and his disciples spoke Greek.

"Here are SOME the places where Jesus and the disciples are seen as quoting from the Greek translation of the OT:

Matt. 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 – behold, a “virgin” shall conceive. Hebrew – behold, a “young woman” shall conceive.
Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23 / Isaiah 40:3 – make “His paths straight.” Hebrew – make “level in the desert a highway.”
Matt. 12:21 / Isaiah 42:4 – in His name will the Gentiles hope (or trust). Hebrew – the isles shall wait for his law.
Luke 3:5-6 / Isaiah 40:4-5 – crooked be made straight, rough ways smooth, shall see salvation. Hebrew – omits these phrases.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 61:1 – and recovering of sight to the blind. Hebrew – the opening of prison to them that are bound.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 58:6 – to set at liberty those that are oppressed (or bruised). Hebrew – to let the oppressed go free.
If we take a look at Luke 4, we see that Jesus was verbally preaching the above-mentioned texts which were found in the Greek translation of Isaiah. In other words, we have some scriptural evidence that Christ spoke and read Greek..."

Did Jesus & His Disciples Speak Greek? | Reasons for Jesus

And, here go go where Christians purposely mistranslated Hebrew to makes passages in the Jewish scripture be about Jesus.. not what they are actually about'. Almah does not mean virgin. Then, you get the 'oh, a word is the same, lets make it about Jesus'. That is ridiculous.

The excuses that the pop apoloigists make up is so stupid.

 

[Daisy]

A virgin, or maiden, would give birth to the Messiah. (Read Isaiah 7:14.) This verse says that the maiden would give birth to a son. The word for virgin in Hebrew is bethulah. This verse uses almah, a word that means “maiden.” But we know that almah also means “virgin” because the Bible calls Rebekah a maiden (almah) before her marriage. (Genesis 24:16, 43) God’s holy spirit directed Matthew to write that Isaiah 7:14 came true when Jesus was born. In this verse, he did not use the Greek word for “maiden.” He used the Greek word for “virgin,” parthenos. The Gospel writers Matthew and Luke both say that Mary was a virgin and that she became pregnant through God’s holy spirit.​—Matthew 1:18-25; Luke 1:26-35.

They Waited for the Messiah — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Logicman]

And, here go go where Christians purposely mistranslated Hebrew to makes passages in the Jewish scripture be about Jesus.. not what they are actually about'. Almah does not mean virgin. Then, you get the 'oh, a word is the same, lets make it about Jesus'. That is ridiculous.

The excuses that the pop apoloigists make up is so stupid.

Your theology is fit only for the bottom of a bird cage.

In Isaiah the "Sign" was a virgin shall be with child.

How would it qualify as a sign (something unusual or miraculous) if she were not a virgin?

 

[RAMOSS]

Your theology is fit only for the bottom of a bird cage.

In Isaiah the "Sign" was a virgin shall be with child.

How would it qualify as a sign (something unusual or miraculous) if she were not a virgin?

No, that wasn't the sign. The sign was to King Ahaz , and the birth if the child was a timer. For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned."

 

[Logicman]

No, that wasn't the sign. The sign was to King Ahaz , and the birth if the child was a timer. For, when the lad does not yet know to reject bad and choose good, the land whose two kings you dread, shall be abandoned."

Nope. Ahaz refused the sign.

 

[Daisy]

The divine Author of the Hebrew Scriptures doubtless had a purpose in using the Hebrew word ‘al·mahʹ at Isaiah 7:14 instead of bethu·lahʹ (“virgin”). Her son was to be named Immanuel, meaning “God is with us.” For instance, our magazine, The Watchtower, in its issue of October 15, 1946, pages 312, 313, referred to this prophecy and its fulfillment, and then on page 315, paragraph 38, it said: “They will thus be like Isaiah and his sons, Shear-jashub and Maher-shalal-hash-baz, and possibly a third son named ‘Immanuel’.” In other words, the prophecy of Isaiah 7:11 may have had a first fulfillment in the case of the prophet Isaiah himself, through his having a child by a young woman or maiden. The birth of this child named Immanuel would, of course, not be a virgin birth. The reasonableness of this is grasped when we see that the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 concerning the birth of Immanuel by a maiden was to be a sign for the benefit of King Ahaz to whom the prophet Isaiah was then speaking. The virgin birth of a child seven hundred years later could hardly be a sign to wicked King Ahaz during his lifetime. In Isaiah’s case, therefore, the mother of the son Immanuel would be an ‘al·mahʹ or young woman sexually ripe. But the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 was given under such solemn circumstances and amid such prophetical developments that prefigured the future that this prophecy of the birth of Immanuel by the ‘al·mahʹ must have a fulfillment future from the days of King Ahaz. This is especially so since Isaiah said under inspiration: “Behold, I and the children whom Jehovah hath given me are for signs and for wonders in Israel from Jehovah of hosts, who dwelleth in Mount Zion.” (Isaiah 8:18, AS) So this child Immanuel back there in his peculiar birth and meaning of his name would be a wonderful sign of something to occur future. Hence Isaiah 7:14 would have a major, complete fulfillment after Isaiah’s time and at God’s own appointed time.

Questions From Readers — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[bongsaway]

Went through the whole catholic thing including school for ten years. I find being an atheist much more peaceful. If there is a god and I ever get to converse with him/her/it, I'll be the first to say, oops, sorry I was wrong. According to what I was TAUGHT, god would say, cool and welcome because god is all knowing, all loving and all caring.

So that's why I'm an atheist.

 

[Atheist 2020]

Pretty sure the slave Onesimus (Philemon chapter 1) heard the Gospel from the Apostle Paul sometime midway or shortly thereafter in the 1st century. And I'm pretty sure there were others also. They didn't have to read about it but just hear about the salvation of Christ.



Jesus and his disciples spoke Greek.

"Here are SOME the places where Jesus and the disciples are seen as quoting from the Greek translation of the OT:

Matt. 1:23 / Isaiah 7:14 – behold, a “virgin” shall conceive. Hebrew – behold, a “young woman” shall conceive.
Matt. 3:3; Mark 1:3; John 1:23 / Isaiah 40:3 – make “His paths straight.” Hebrew – make “level in the desert a highway.”
Matt. 12:21 / Isaiah 42:4 – in His name will the Gentiles hope (or trust). Hebrew – the isles shall wait for his law.
Luke 3:5-6 / Isaiah 40:4-5 – crooked be made straight, rough ways smooth, shall see salvation. Hebrew – omits these phrases.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 61:1 – and recovering of sight to the blind. Hebrew – the opening of prison to them that are bound.
Luke 4:18 / Isaiah 58:6 – to set at liberty those that are oppressed (or bruised). Hebrew – to let the oppressed go free.
If we take a look at Luke 4, we see that Jesus was verbally preaching the above-mentioned texts which were found in the Greek translation of Isaiah. In other words, we have some scriptural evidence that Christ spoke and read Greek..."

Did Jesus & His Disciples Speak Greek? | Reasons for Jesus

You do know you are quoting the King James Bible, started in 1604 and finished in 1611. And the current Catholic Bible in English was reorganized during the 1990's. Look at it in my point of view. We have the King James Bible being over 400 years old: were Jesus never being in the United Kingdom or speaking English. We have the Catholic Bible being designed and reorganized during my lifetime. Look at the King James Bible, it became into being during the turn of the century in the 17th century and if we had a real Jesus -- he was in the first century.

I do not support a Jesus that understood the Greek language.

 

[Logicman]

You do know you are quoting the King James Bible, started in 1604 and finished in 1611. And the current Catholic Bible in English was reorganized during the 1990's. Look at it in my point of view. We have the King James Bible being over 400 years old: were Jesus never being in the United Kingdom or speaking English. We have the Catholic Bible being designed and reorganized during my lifetime. Look at the King James Bible, it became into being during the turn of the century in the 17th century and if we had a real Jesus -- he was in the first century.

That's not an issue. We have the earliest manuscripts and quotes of the earliest church fathers.

I do not support a Jesus that understood the Greek language.

Doesn't change the fact that Jesus spoke Greek.

 

[RAMOSS]

That's not an issue. We have the earliest manuscripts and quotes of the earliest church fathers.



Doesn't change the fact that Jesus spoke Greek.

Let's see you actually provide evidence of that, other than speculation, dogma and argument from assertion.

 

[Logicman]

Let's see you actually provide evidence of that, other than speculation, dogma and argument from assertion.

Do your own research so you can kick that to the curb too.

 

[RAMOSS]

Do your own research so you can kick that to the curb too.

In other words.. you are unable to show that is a true statement.

 

[Atheist 2020]

That's not an issue. We have the earliest manuscripts and quotes of the earliest church fathers.

1) Jesus (if he was a real man) never seen or got information of a manuscripts about him.
2) The earliest manuscripts was written after 70 CE ... were anyone having a memory of Jesus would be so small that they would be a nobody.
3) There was many manuscripts and it was not until the 4th century before it was accepted into the bible.

Doesn't change the fact that Jesus spoke Greek.

Jesus and his 12 man group were homeless. When I see a homeless man or woman -- I do not see a rational person that can speak English or Spanish