Every Week, Every Month, Every Day Sweden Proves World Got It Wrong.

[maxparrish]

Sweden got it mostly right (save for old folks homes):

As other countries face renewed outbreaks, Sweden’s latest Covid-19 figures suggest it’s rapidly bringing the virus under control.

“That Sweden has come down to these levels is very promising,” state epidemiologist Anders Tegnell told reporters in Stockholm on Tuesday.

The Health Agency of Sweden says that since hitting a peak in late June, the infection rate has fallen sharply. That’s amid an increase in testing over the period.

“The curves are going down and the curves for the seriously ill are beginning to approach zero,” Tegnell said.
[/FONT][/COLOR]
On Tuesday, Sweden reported two new deaths, bringing the total to 5,702.

Masks

Tegnell also broached the subject of face masks, which the World Health Organization recommends people use when social distancing isn’t possible.
“With numbers diminishing very quickly in Sweden, we see no point in wearing a face mask in Sweden, not even on public transport,” he said.

Tegnell has consistently argued that Sweden’s approach is more sustainable than the sudden lockdowns imposed elsewhere. With the risk that Covid-19 might be around for years, he says completely shutting down society isn’t a long-term option.

Read More: Sweden Retail Sales ‘More Than Reversed’ Covid-19 Decline

Meanwhile, many countries that thought they’d brought the virus under control are now seeing second waves. Tegnell called those developments “worrying.”
“The positive trend is reversing, with an increase in the number of cases in Spain, Romania and Belgium, among others,” he said.

Note their classic pandemic curve(s) for unsuppressed infections:



If not for Malmo and the immigrants from the under-developed world, one might presume Sweden has reached herd immunity. However, it is a region in which statistics indicate they may not have done so, and the community could still be a festering and stubbornly infected reservoir.

On the other hand, the rest of the country is sparkling clean, unsullied by riotous minorities, and filled with pretty white folks - albeit stubbornly social welfareist.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

There is no such thing as herd immunity with covid. It's been shown that people lose their antibodies over a few months. The EU as a whole has almost eradicated the virus and is on lock down to prevent idiot Americans from bringing it back in.

Second, Sweden has done objectively worse than countries who followed the recommended procedure and shut down early and hard, but they still did better than the abject failure that is the United States whose genius strategy was to do nothing and just let it infect everyone.

While you want to somehow blame the minorities, it hilariously was the dumbass white right wing Trump supporters that ****ed the country over. America is suffering longer and harder than everyone else. Most other 1st world countries are already back to work and have been for months. Your ignorance did this, stop trying to blame minorities for your own dumbass decisions.

 

[Schism]

The EU as a whole has almost eradicated the virus and is on lock down to prevent idiot Americans from bringing it back in.

:roll:

WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard | covid19.who

 

[eon]

One of the main differences between the U.S. and other countries addressing the covid virus was their "all in" approach. Whether they chose the herd immunity option, or the "stop the spread" path, they followed the chosen playbook. Everybody on the same page.

Here, we make everything about the individual rather than the whole.
"A mask violates mah rights!"

Fine. Don't wear it. We can drag this out for years. But stop whining about economic shutdowns when you're not doing anything to stop the spread.

 

[maxparrish]

There is no such thing as herd immunity with covid. It's been shown that people lose their antibodies over a few months. The EU as a whole has almost eradicated the virus and is on lock down to prevent idiot Americans from bringing it back in.

Have you alerted the dozen international vaccine makers that their work is futile? What is it they know that you are ignorant of, other than immunology in general? Come to think of it, what is it the popular press knows that your unaware of...Coronavirus vaccine 'stimulates antibody and T-cell response' – what does this mean? ?

Fact is, T-Cells have very long memories and have been shown to respond to the virus even when anti-bodies are not even produced.

Second, Sweden has done objectively worse than countries who followed the recommended procedure and shut down early and hard, but they still did better than the abject failure that is the United States whose genius strategy was to do nothing and just let it infect everyone.

Actually Sweden has done objectively better than many (e.g. UK, Spain, Italy) and far better at attaining its goals: herd immunity, mitigation of economic damage, and quicker economic recovery. One will expect to see the fruits of that strategy in the fall and winter, when others find a broad second wave while Sweden escapes most of it.

While you want to somehow blame the minorities, it hilariously was the dumbass white right wing Trump supporters that ****ed the country over. America is suffering longer and harder than everyone else. Most other 1st world countries are already back to work and have been for months. Your ignorance did this, stop trying to blame minorities for your own dumbass decisions.

I merely noted facts: the minority underclass, including those of the immigrant third world, are vectors for most (but not all) infectious disease. For whatever reason there presence in more advanced societies constitutes a vector and virus reservoir that threatens the well being of society in general. COVID is no exception to that truth.

Hence, the confirmation of herd immunity for one part of Sweden will come this fall, and should it not have been attained in the urban region that has the most 'non-Swedish' Swedes then that region might have to be fully quarantined to let the virus burnout.

Sweden is an advanced country, I am sure they can arrange for supply drops from aircraft, hazmat suited soldiers in convoys bringing MRE's, medical supplies, and the like.

 

[maxparrish]

One of the main differences between the U.S. and other countries addressing the covid virus was their "all in" approach. Whether they chose the herd immunity option, or the "stop the spread" path, they followed the chosen playbook. Everybody on the same page.

Here, we make everything about the individual rather than the whole.
"A mask violates mah rights!"

Fine. Don't wear it. We can drag this out for years. But stop whining about economic shutdowns when you're not doing anything to stop the spread.

Ummm, you do know that universal mandated masks didn't play a big role in most of these European anti-Covid policies, right?

 

[minnie616]

Ummm, you do know that universal mandated masks didn't play a big role in most of these European anti-Covid policies, right?

Actually, distance is much more followed in Europe than the US.
Many stores are small and they only allow one customer in at time.

 

[eon]

Ummm, you do know that universal mandated masks didn't play a big role in most of these European anti-Covid policies, right?

My point is the way other societies reacted as a group towards the virus - whether it was social distancing, masks, or an attempt at herd immunity. They worked together for the well-being of all, not just themselves. Here in the U.S. its become a personal rights issue, where people cough into other peoples faces, or pull guns on each other. It's bedlam. Now other places have taken a step towards normalcy, while we remain a festering petrie dish thats been cut off from the rest of the planet.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Have you alerted the dozen international vaccine makers that their work is futile? What is it they know that you are ignorant of, other than immunology in general? Come to think of it, what is it the popular press knows that your unaware of...Coronavirus vaccine 'stimulates antibody and T-cell response' – what does this mean? ?

Fact is, T-Cells have very long memories and have been shown to respond to the virus even when anti-bodies are not even produced.

Actually Sweden has done objectively better than many (e.g. UK, Spain, Italy) and far better at attaining its goals: herd immunity, mitigation of economic damage, and quicker economic recovery. One will expect to see the fruits of that strategy in the fall and winter, when others find a broad second wave while Sweden escapes most of it.
I merely noted facts: the minority underclass, including those of the immigrant third world, are vectors for most (but not all) infectious disease. For whatever reason there presence in more advanced societies constitutes a vector and virus reservoir that threatens the well being of society in general. COVID is no exception to that truth.
Hence, the confirmation of herd immunity for one part of Sweden will come this fall, and should it not have been attained in the urban region that has the most 'non-Swedish' Swedes then that region might have to be fully quarantined to let the virus burnout.

Sweden is an advanced country, I am sure they can arrange for supply drops from aircraft, hazmat suited soldiers in convoys bringing MRE's, medical supplies, and the like.

Herd immunity at a national level can only happen with a vaccine. You're essentially arguing virtually everyone in Sweden has already been infected and created their own antibodies to permanently reject the virus, which is hilariously false.

And no, Sweden has not done better than the average country who followed social distancing and mask requirements.

The US has performed astronomically worse than everyone else and is suffering harder than everyone else because of ignorant idiot Trump supporters who don't even believe the virus is real and that masks are used to control them. You did this, not the brown people, stop blaming American failures in everyone else but American leadership.

:roll:

WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard | covid19.who

There's no metric you can point to where America isn't an abject failure in comparison to all the other 1st world countries.

View attachment 67289184

Ummm, you do know that universal mandated masks didn't play a big role in most of these European anti-Covid policies, right?

Yes, it absolutely did. Masks, social distancing and partial shut downs were mandatory here and not just light suggestions like in the US. You lie through your teeth about things you know nothing about because you're dishonest and have an agenda.

 

[Thoreau72]

One of the main differences between the U.S. and other countries addressing the covid virus was their "all in" approach. Whether they chose the herd immunity option, or the "stop the spread" path, they followed the chosen playbook. Everybody on the same page.

Here, we make everything about the individual rather than the whole.
"A mask violates mah rights!"

Fine. Don't wear it. We can drag this out for years. But stop whining about economic shutdowns when you're not doing anything to stop the spread.

Nobody and no government is doing anything to stop the spread. They have certainly convinced themselves they have, but that is simply human delusional behavior on a social level.

The stuff is everywhere, though it seems Africa with its widespread use of HCQ for malarial prophylaxis has somehow done better against it.

The virus will do as it pleases and at some point herd immunity will come into play for this highly transmissible but low morbidity virus.

The "crisis" generated by the media and the political class will suddenly subside once Joe beats Donald, but the engineered virus will remain in some mutated form or the other.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

Nobody and no government is doing anything to stop the spread. They have certainly convinced themselves they have, but that is simply human delusional behavior on a social level.

The stuff is everywhere, though it seems Africa with its widespread use of HCQ for malarial prophylaxis has somehow done better against it.

The virus will do as it pleases and at some point herd immunity will come into play for this highly transmissible but low morbidity virus.

The "crisis" generated by the media and the political class will suddenly subside once Joe beats Donald, but the engineered virus will remain in some mutated form or the other.

This is objectively, dramatically untrue and there's no way you could possibly be this ignorant unintentionally. Yes, you absolutely can slow the spread of the virus and every other first world country on other is doing WAAAY better than us in it.

Here's one conparison:
View attachment 67289184

New infections per day is literally a metric for the spread of the virus. Germany isn't full of scientifically illiterate moron Trump supporters so they were able to get the infection rate to near zero.

Why do you lie about things that can easily be proven false?

 

[maxparrish]

Actually, distance is much more followed in Europe than the US.
Many stores are small and they only allow one customer in at time.

You have to be open for that to matter...small stores are mostly closed in unopened states (e.g. California).

 

[Luce]

Nobody and no government is doing anything to stop the spread. They have certainly convinced themselves they have, but that is simply human delusional behavior on a social level.

The stuff is everywhere, though it seems Africa with its widespread use of HCQ for malarial prophylaxis has somehow done better against it.

The virus will do as it pleases and at some point herd immunity will come into play for this highly transmissible but low morbidity virus.

The "crisis" generated by the media and the political class will suddenly subside once Joe beats Donald, but the engineered virus will remain in some mutated form or the other.

New Zealand would like a word.

 

[Peter King]

:roll:

WHO Coronavirus Disease (COVID-19) Dashboard | covid19.who

All the grey areas have had zero cases per 100,000 citizens in the past 2 weeks. I live in the South of the Netherlands and in the past 2 weeks we had 2 positive covid cases and we are very densely populated and have almost 100,000 citizens. My sister lives in the middle of the country (on the island inside of the Ijsselmeer) and her city had 0 cases. All the yellow areas have had up to 10 cases per 100,000 people in 2 weeks time. And that is not per day that is in total.

There are only 2 cities in the entire country who have relatively high case numbers, one town with 168 per 100,000 citizens (but it is a very small city and it has 37 cases in 2 weeks time) and the only other one has 102 cases per 100,000 people in the past 2 weeks and it is also a very small city and just has had 30 cases.

Even Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague, the most densely populated cities so to speak with several hundreds of thousands of people, have had 842 covid cases in 14 days time.

And we are even worried because it is higher than past 2 weeks. So our government is calling on people to keep washing hands and social distancing.

Sweden started with the rules for social distancing way later than the rest of the Europe so for that reason it too so damned long for the Swedish cases to start going down.

And again, Sweden is a lot less densely populated than the Netherlands so it should have had a natural advantage to the Netherlands which is densely populated for just about all of the middle of the country. Sweden should have been able to lower the curve if it had been more pro-active in locking down parts of the country where most of the population lived.

 

[maxparrish]

My point is the way other societies reacted as a group towards the virus - whether it was social distancing, masks, or an attempt at herd immunity. They worked together for the well-being of all, not just themselves. Here in the U.S. its become a personal rights issue, where people cough into other peoples faces, or pull guns on each other. It's bedlam. Now other places have taken a step towards normalcy, while we remain a festering petrie dish thats been cut off from the rest of the planet.

Hyperbolic nonsense. If you check the foreign press you will see all the same self-recrimination and blame directed at authorities for poor response you see here. Anytime anything happens that is less than perfect it becomes political and people get ruffled.

And yes, it has become a personal rights issue because WE ARE different societies, just as western and eastern Europe chose a myrid of different degrees and scopes of strategy. The difference here is that our societies are under "the United States" which makes everyone judgmental of their neighbors efforts. Were Europe a single nation rest assured, the mutual judgement and recrimination for not doing it "one way" would have been far greater...as would be anger over pressure to abandoned a state's independent social choices.

 

[Schism]

View attachment 67289274

All the grey areas have had zero cases per 100,000 citizens in the past 2 weeks. I live in the South of the Netherlands and in the past 2 weeks we had 2 positive covid cases and we are very densely populated and have almost 100,000 citizens. My sister lives in the middle of the country (on the island inside of the Ijsselmeer) and her city had 0 cases. All the yellow areas have had up to 10 cases per 100,000 people in 2 weeks time. And that is not per day that is in total.

The Netherlands haven't been dealing with 18-24 year-olds crowding beaches, grinding parties, lake raves, or 60 days/nights of rioting. The US has a 'dumb youth' problem, exacerbated by democratic mayors who threaten police if they go to work.

Apart from that, maxparrish and Thoreau72 are correct: the entire world is dealing with this, the same idiots will always spread disease, and the same politicians will always blame the other party.

 

[Peter King]

The Netherlands haven't been dealing with 18-24 year-olds crowding beaches, grinding parties, lake raves, or 60 days/nights of rioting. The US has a 'dumb youth' problem, exacerbated by democratic mayors who threaten police if they go to work.

Apart from that, maxparrish and Thoreau72 are correct: the entire world is dealing with this, the same idiots will always spread disease, and the same politicians will always blame the other party.

Well we too have had problems with youths crowding parties etc. but some of those parties were held in other countries. But when they come back they are still a risk for our country.

Luckily the corona/covid policies here in the Netherlands have only been a political issue with the "populist right and left" who are trying to carry favor with the insane covid deniers but most political parties have been largely supportive of the governments decisions as we are not partisan extremist movements. Most political parties, especially during the worst of the crisis have been rather unanimous in their support for stringent covid measures, some even wanting to go further than the governments position but overall good cooperation.

 

[fireflygmf]

There is no such thing as herd immunity with covid. It's been shown that people lose their antibodies over a few months. The EU as a whole has almost eradicated the virus and is on lock down to prevent idiot Americans from bringing it back in.

This is not as cut-and-dried as you suggest. It has been shown that although antibodies to SARS-CoV-2 disappear between 3 and 6 months, memory t-cells offer long term protection against this virus. In fact, it has been observed that those infected in 2003 from the original SARS virus (closely related to this virus) have protection against SARS-CoV-2, even thought 17 years have passed.

Second, Sweden has done objectively worse than countries who followed the recommended procedure and shut down early and hard, but they still did better than the abject failure that is the United States whose genius strategy was to do nothing and just let it infect everyone.

This is true. We have quite some time to pass yet, and it is summer in these nordic countries, hence transmission is low. It is conceivable that a second wave in Sweden will be attenuated when compared to it's neighbours, but this is something that will only be revealed in the future. It will be interesting to observe the outcomes.

While you want to somehow blame the minorities, it hilariously was the dumbass white right wing Trump supporters that ****ed the country over. America is suffering longer and harder than everyone else. Most other 1st world countries are already back to work and have been for months. Your ignorance did this, stop trying to blame minorities for your own dumbass decisions.

While I am no Trump supporter, it does not help to throw around statements that lump us into 'us' and 'them' camps by racial or party lines, and to name-call those you don't agree with as 'dumbasses'. We're all in this together, and the sooner we can drop divisive actions and statements from both sides, the better.

 

[Visbek]

Sweden got it mostly right (save for old folks homes):

Good grief. How many times are you going to repeat the same garbage?

Sweden messed up, resulting in more cases and deaths per capita than the EU. They didn't save their economy either. They brought down the number of cases with social distancing, they just didn't need government mandates for the population to cooperate. The only difference is that they got hit a little bit later.





To date, they are: #7 highest deaths per capita, and #18 in most cases per capita. Heck, so far they've done worse than the US:



Speaking of, the nations and states that were inspired by their perception of the "Sweden Model?" Yep, they're boned. Texas, Florida, Arizona, Georgia, Brazil... the virus spun out of control, forcing further lockdowns.

On the other hand, the rest of the country is sparkling clean, unsullied by riotous minorities, and filled with pretty white folks - albeit stubbornly social welfareist.

:roll:

Spare us the xenophobic and racist bull****. Nearly 20% of Sweden's population today is foreign-born. Immigrants include people from Turkey, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Somalia.

Oh, and in the US? Those "rioters" (i.e. protesters) are mostly white. What a concept.

 

[Schism]

While I am no Trump supporter, it does not help to throw around statements that lump us into 'us' and 'them' camps by racial or party lines, and to name-call those you don't agree with as 'dumbasses'. We're all in this together, and the sooner we can drop divisive actions and statements from both sides, the better.

They don't care about anything except sliming Trump whenever possible. It's an illness, but different from COVID.

 

[RabidAlpaca]

The Netherlands haven't been dealing with 18-24 year-olds crowding beaches, grinding parties, lake raves, or 60 days/nights of rioting. The US has a 'dumb youth' problem, exacerbated by democratic mayors who threaten police if they go to work.

Apart from that, maxparrish and Thoreau72 are correct: the entire world is dealing with this, the same idiots will always spread disease, and the same politicians will always blame the other party.

Name one politician who has threaneed cops if they go to work. You lie because you have an agenda.

:roll:


Spare us the xenophobic and racist bull****. Nearly 20% of Sweden's population today is foreign-born. Immigrants include people from Turkey, Syria, Iran, Iraq and Somalia.


Oh, and in the US? Those "rioters" (i.e. protesters) are mostly white. What a concept.

I love how when racists perceive that a Nordic country like Sweden or Germany does something wrong, they claim its because the country is being overrun by brown, foreign immigrants and are now basically Muslim countries, but when they do something they perceive as good its because those countries are all white paradises.

 

[TU Curmudgeon]

This is objectively, dramatically untrue and there's no way you could possibly be this ignorant unintentionally. Yes, you absolutely can slow the spread of the virus and every other first world country on other is doing WAAAY better than us in it.

Here's one conparison:
View attachment 67289184

New infections per day is literally a metric for the spread of the virus. Germany isn't full of scientifically illiterate moron Trump supporters so they were able to get the infection rate to near zero.

Why do you lie about things that can easily be proven false?

For two reasons:

1. because he really, really, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, REALLY wants them to be true;
   *
   and
   *
2. because Mr. Trump says that they are true.

 

[maxparrish]

Herd immunity at a national level can only happen with a vaccine. You're essentially arguing virtually everyone in Sweden has already been infected and created their own antibodies to permanently reject the virus, which is hilariously false.

And no, Sweden has not done better than the average country who followed social distancing and mask requirements.

Your knowledge of epidemiology is on par with your knowledge of immunity - which is to say, none at all. I'm not saying "virtually everyone in Sweden" has to have been infected, but you are.

Herd immunity does not require such a simple-minded assumption, even in the most simplistic models. And in fact, herd immunity can be attained somewhere between 6 and 21 percent of the population.

Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought – Nicholas Lewis
The progress of the COVID-19 epidemic in Sweden: an analysis – Nicholas Lewis
Why herd immunity to COVID-19 is reached much earlier than thought – update – Nicholas Lewis

And two independent papers come to the same conclusion:

Individual variation in susceptibility or exposure to SARS-CoV-2 lowers the herd immunity threshold | medRxiv
Herd immunity thresholds for SARS-CoV-2 estimated from unfolding epidemics | medRxiv

The US has performed astronomically worse than everyone else and is suffering harder than everyone else because of ignorant idiot Trump supporters who don't even believe the virus is real and that masks are used to control them. You did this, not the brown people, stop blaming American failures in everyone else but American leadership.

There's no metric you can point to where America isn't an abject failure in comparison to all the other 1st world countries.

LOL, the US is a failure to "all the other countries" of the first world? Please don't post a lame chart of just Germany because "Germany" is not "all the other countries", it is one of the five major countries of western Europe. You know better than that, don't you?

Now had you not cherry picked from the Big 5 and chosen a much more important metric you would have found a chart that it's not the US that looks like a failure. Four of the five major countries of Europe have had more deaths per capita, as shown in comparison of the purple and green highlighted areas. You do know what an abject failure looks like, don't you?

Yes, it absolutely did. Masks, social distancing and partial shut downs were mandatory here and not just light suggestions like in the US. You lie through your teeth about things you know nothing about because you're dishonest and have an agenda.

As you don't specify what country or city "here" is, and presume to characterize the entire US while living outside North America...need one reply to your closing rant?

I think not.

 

[Schism]

Name one politician who has threaneed cops if they go to work. You lie because you have an agenda.

Okay, here's one:

Philadelphia’s Top Prosecutor Is Prepared to Arrest Federal Agents | bloomberg.com

Admit it: You're ignorant of current events and important issues because of political media bias.

 

[JasperL]

Sweden got it mostly right (save for old folks homes):

Note their classic pandemic curve(s) for unsuppressed infections:

If not for Malmo and the immigrants from the under-developed world, one might presume Sweden has reached herd immunity. However, it is a region in which statistics indicate they may not have done so, and the community could still be a festering and stubbornly infected reservoir.

On the other hand, the rest of the country is sparkling clean, unsullied by riotous minorities, and filled with pretty white folks - albeit stubbornly social welfareist.

Wow. So you're just being openly white supremacist now. The white hood is off!