Every Leftist Voted Against Pro-Growth Middle Class Tax Cut [W:139]

[Nickyjo]

https://townhall.com/tipsheet/guybe...ajor-progrowth-middle-class-tax-cuts-n2424776

Every single Democrat who cast votes on the bill in both legislative chambers voted no. 'Resistance' now requires consigning your working class and middle-income constituents to higher tax burdens, apparently. Thanks to Democrats' unified failure, more than 80 percent of taxpayers will see an immediate cut...

That's what the left calls, "looking out for the little guy."

It's been a long time since the middle class got some relief from big govt oppressive taxes.

Tell us why you think they voted against this.

 

[GDViking]

I wonder if anyone has already addressed the fact that, later this spring, Ryan will jump out of his chair and exclaim,
"Oh my God, look at this enormous deficit, it's almost two trillion dollars!! We HAVE to cut Medicare and Social Security to PAY for all this SPENDING!"


So let's look at this token tax cut for the middle class with clear eyes, because when your parents or grandparents get their Social Security and Medicare cut,
or even taken away entirely, some of them will be moving in with you, and some will be moving into a cardboard box on Skid Row, and the rest of you who have been
paying into these programs your entire working life, are going to be labeled "moochers who expect free stuff or entitlements" and you will be scolded for having the temerity to dare ask for Medicare and Social Security, which is, of course, SOCIALISM.
Never mind that Paul Ryan's heroine enjoyed those entitlements herself.


"Yeah, she paid into it so she deserved it"
Damn right she did, and so has every other working American, so why aren't we at least getting what Ayn Rand deserved?
They're coming for your Medicare and your retirement money, count on it.
So this penny-ante dog and pony show about tax cuts is just more of the same crap Republicans have shoving down our throats for the last six decades.
It doesn't work, it has never worked and it never will work.
But that's not important to them. What is important to them is their "socialism for the wealthy", which is really what this tax bill is.
It is the largest upward redistribution of wealth from the backs of the poor in the modern era.
And, it's also a strictly punitive measure against blue states only. Imagine that!


And we know exactly how crappy their tax ideas are because we have Kansas as an example.


We really should be paying attention to CHIP right now...which was recently defunded.
If children start to die for lack of care for chronic conditions the GOP will be widely condemned, Even by a lot of Republican voters.

Don't forget Paul Ryan has received a government check his whole life, from ss to government. The only real job he has ever had was driving the Oscar Meyer weiner mobile part time.

 

[Nickyjo]

So are minimum wage increases yet that fact seems to escape most folks.

Yet strangely, the GOP cut taxes for the rich and didn't raise the minimum wage. No Trump Christmas present for poorer folk.

 

[Absentglare]

So are minimum wage increases yet that fact seems to escape most folks.

So you admit that the government changing the law so that individuals have more cash and the government goes deeper into debt is a handout?

If, for example, i owe money to Charles Koch, and, instead, i change the law so that i don't have to pay him, that would have the effect of stealing.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Yet strangely, the GOP cut taxes for the rich and didn't raise the minimum wage. No Trump Christmas present for poorer folk.

Yep, some of those in the zero federal income tax bracket got no tax relief at all. Any state, county or city is free to raise the MW at any time and many have done so. When I hire help (which is not that often) I pay them at least $100/day (for 4 to 8 hours of work) in tax free cash, supply lunch, tools (as required), work gloves, safety glasses and transportation to and from the job site.

One of the reasons that folks are willing to continue to work for crap wages is that the "safety net" often makes up for the shortfall and/or they simply prefer easier work. Many employers will not offer more than is required to attract and retain qualified labor and many such jobs require so few skills/training that just about anyone can do them such that high turnover is not an issue.

 

[GDViking]

He also ran against globalism, and from all indications, this tax cut actually encourages more off-shoring. Trump voters are a special kind of stupid.

Yip companies no longer pay taxes on money made In foreign countries.

Yip that will bring jobs back to the U.S.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

We have SS and Medicare obligations.

---We have SS obligations because the trust fund was looted, and in any case, simple actuarial adjustments to the income cap work wonders in extending solvency.
Actuaries make adjustments to insurance funds all the time to keep them solvent.
The official name for Social Security is the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program, so maybe it's time Republicans stopped treating it like a cookie jar and went back to treating it like an insurance program.
Oh wait, I forgot...they seem to have a general difficulty understanding the basics on how insurance even works in the first place.

 

[ttwtt78640]

---We have SS obligations because the trust fund was looted, and in any case, simple actuarial adjustments to the income cap work wonders in extending solvency.
Actuaries make adjustments to insurance funds all the time to keep them solvent.
The official name for Social Security is the Old-Age, Survivors, and Disability Insurance program, so maybe it's time Republicans stopped treating it like a cookie jar and went back to treating it like an insurance program.
Oh wait, I forgot...they seem to have a general difficulty understanding the basics on how insurance even works in the first place.

That might help Social Security (but also would raise future benefit costs) but Medicare no longer has an income cap.

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/topwages.html

Two other actuarial changes have hurt both of these programs - the number of current workers per the number of current beneficiaries and the increased lifespan of those benficiaries.

Another factor, that is more important to Medicare, is that wages are rising slower than general inflation while benefit costs are rising faster than general inflation. While Social Security benfits are indexed for inflation wages are not - such that a fixed "contribution" percetage rate loses value (compared to retirement benefit costs) over time.

It would seem that as the full Social Security benefit retirement age rises then the odds of disability preceding it would also go up - making the total retirement payments higher rather than lower for many retirees.

 

[Nickyjo]

Let me make this simple: democrats tend to enthusiastically believe that the government should pay for or facilitate things like Social Security, Medicare, stuff like food stamps, and defense (not so much... but well, OK) and that we should levy taxes to do so. Republicans enthusiastically tend to believe that the government should pay for or facilitate defense, and (not so much) social security, Medicare and food stamps (but well, OK) and don't like levying taxes to do so. Push will come to shove when tax cuts meets deficits, and democrats will come to the rescue and help things by raising taxes as they did under Reagan in the 80s and with Obama after W's tax cuts and his attempt to fight a war off the books. Republicans get pushed and will try to shove away things like food stamps and ease away from SS and Medicare. They never liked those red headed (well, pinko) children of the New Deal and Great Society anyway, so they will try send them to the orphanage of the private sector.

Democrats' policies were called "irresponsible tax and spend." Republicans' policies, spending without taxes, were called "voodoo economics" by W's father. Their new policy name will be "Ooops, we have to cut benefits, who knew this would happen?"

All the rest is rhetorical smoke and mirrors. Name your poison.

 

[Nickyjo]

Yep, some of those in the zero federal income tax bracket got no tax relief at all. Any state, county or city is free to raise the MW at any time and many have done so. When I hire help (which is not that often) I pay them at least $100/day (for 4 to 8 hours of work) in tax free cash, supply lunch, tools (as required), work gloves, safety glasses and transportation to and from the job site.

One of the reasons that folks are willing to continue to work for crap wages is that the "safety net" often makes up for the shortfall and/or they simply prefer easier work. Many employers will not offer more than is required to attract and retain qualified labor and many such jobs require so few skills/training that just about anyone can do them such that high turnover is not an issue.

Look my question was related to why Santa Trump didn’t give everyone a Christmas present. Your response suggests you think that people who earn the minimum don’t need any attention from the federal government. States are free to lower taxes too.

 

[Moderate Right]

The French and Russian revolutions were mainly caused by huge income inequality, but hey, let's not learn anything from history. Reducing income inequality results in lower crime, happier people (including those who are richer), and less partisanship in society.

Repeated research has shoen that lowering income inequality is objectively good for society.

Also, the standard of living for the working and middle classes has basically stagnated for the past 30 years.

So, the working and middle classes don't have big screen televisions, smartphones, etc.?

 

[Moderate Right]

The poor have gotten richer and their standard of living gets better and better?

http://nlihc.org/sites/default/files/oor/OOR_2017_Min-Wage-Map.pdf

Oh wait, I know, you're referring to the Heritage Foundation quip about how "there is no poverty in America because the poor have refrigerators."

View attachment 67226363

Yeah, they have refrigerators! Wow, imagine that.

View attachment 67226362

Let's just be clear about the definition of poverty here, because if you're going to frame it in terms like that, you're no longer talking about "the poor", because
The Heritage Foundation study justifies their argument based on ideas of poverty defined by emaciated children in third world countries who are starving.
Those are not "the poor", they are "the dying".

View attachment 67226364

So if you really want to drop the bar that low, then you're really just saying, "Hey, America is wonderful because we don't have children dying in the streets from starvation."

100 percent wrong on every count. The standard of living is dropping for everyone, the poor, the working poor, the lower middle class and even the upper middle class.
We're working harder and longer, our purchasing power is smaller and smaller, and wages have been stagnant for a more than a generation.
An entire generation of children will not know what it means to work forty hours a week and be able to afford a roof, food, higher education, health care and a crappy car.
They'll know what it means to work 60 to 80 hours a week and barely get by with no health insurance, no higher education unless they agree to go further into crippling debt, no upward mobility and the prospect of one disappearing occupation after another.

If right wing economics are so great, then at the very least they should be enjoying at least the standard of living my parents enjoyed in the 1950's and 60's.
The right's been grinding away at common sense since 1980, it doesn't look like they're going to get it right anytime soon, not if the last forty or fifty years are any indication.

OMG that emaciated kid isn't poor!!! He owns CARDBOARD!!!!!

LOL!! Wow. Severely anecdotal. And, we're talking about the US. I'm surprised you didn't post pictures of abused animals.

 

[Moderate Right]

Yes, people will get a few hundred dollars a year to a couple of thousand dollars a year. What does that have to do with my post?

Sorry. Been very busy. I don't even know what your post was and I don't have the time to look it up.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Look my question was related to why Santa Trump didn’t give everyone a Christmas present. Your response suggests you think that people who earn the minimum don’t need any attention from the federal government. States are free to lower taxes too.

Santa Trump did not write the bill but feel free to tweet him with your question.

 

[Moderate Right]

You should care. So long as the spending continues to climb, the bills have to be paid and by somebody.

But the left argues that the bills don't have to paid, ever. The debt never has to paid. We can continue just adding to it forever.

 

[Blkdirt Farmer]

Demand needs diversity. And that comes from the bottom of the economic scale not the top. If a rich person goes out and spends a million on a jet that money is centralized and effects very little. If a thousand middle class people each spend $1000 it has a much more diverse and greater effect on the economy.

You are here cheering supply-side economics while simultaneously telling me you know more about how demand is most important. Apparently, you don't.

Demand needs diversity?

What kind of mumbo jumbo is that?

Diversity? Really?

You know very little it seems to me. Never heard of diversity relating to demand. Some imaginary left wing economics here. :roll:

Let me know when your able to be rational and actually debate. Right now it would seem your off your rocker. :2wave:

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

LOL!! Wow. Severely anecdotal. And, we're talking about the US. I'm surprised you didn't post pictures of abused animals.

Then tell me how the standard of living for the poor has gotten better.
If
National Low Income Housing Coalition

is false information, debunk it for me.

The fact is, your statement is misinformed, because wages, purchasing power, upward mobility and even the ability to make something as basic as RENT are in the crapper and have been, and it's supported by something you're allergic to...facts.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

That might help Social Security (but also would raise future benefit costs) but Medicare no longer has an income cap.

https://www.ssa.gov/planners/retire/topwages.html

Two other actuarial changes have hurt both of these programs - the number of current workers per the number of current beneficiaries and the increased lifespan of those benficiaries.

Another factor, that is more important to Medicare, is that wages are rising slower than general inflation while benefit costs are rising faster than general inflation. While Social Security benfits are indexed for inflation wages are not - such that a fixed "contribution" percetage rate loses value (compared to retirement benefit costs) over time.

It would seem that as the full Social Security benefit retirement age rises then the odds of disability preceding it would also go up - making the total retirement payments higher rather than lower for many retirees.

All good points but not a justification for scrapping it and/or tossing it to vultures on Wall Street, or pretending that the trust fund was robbed.
Nevertheless, your points are valid, and excellent, and should form a basis for research on how we can FIX the problem, preferably in a bipartisan manner that does not include privatization.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

But the left argues that the bills don't have to paid, ever. The debt never has to paid. We can continue just adding to it forever.

Says who?
It's your people who have just blown another $1.5 Tn dollar hole in the damn thing.
Our people reduced it by half first term of Obama's presidency.
Stop lying, please.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So, the working and middle classes don't have big screen televisions, smartphones, etc.?

Which class are we talking about?
Define "working class" and define "middle class" please.
How much is the average income for a working class family?
How much is the average income for a middle class family?


PS: Do you consider sixty bucks an outrageous expenditure?
https://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/ele/d/sanyo-dpinch-lcd-hdtv-ks/6409921219.html
I just found you a used 32 inch HDTV for sixty bucks on Craigslist, which is where poor people go
to buy a TV set more often than not, because that is WHY Craigslist in LA County currently has
ONE HUNDRED AND SIXTY PAGES OF ADS for cheap used TV sets.

See, unlike your pampered ass, I actually HAVE spent a portion of my life being poor.
If I had a TV set, it's because I knew how to find a cheap used one, and I even knew
how to FIX BROKEN ONES, so more often than not I could have a big TV set for
FIVE BUCKS because it didn't even turn on until I went after it with a voltmeter, a soldering iron
and some cannablized parts from another broken TV set.

 

[ttwtt78640]

All good points but not a justification for scrapping it and/or tossing it to vultures on Wall Street, or pretending that the trust fund was robbed.
Nevertheless, your points are valid, and excellent, and should form a basis for research on how we can FIX the problem, preferably in a bipartisan manner that does not include privatization.

Here is a fairly easy to understand article on the matter that includes some discussion of various solutions:

https://www.cbpp.org/research/socia...understanding-the-social-security-trust-funds

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So, the working and middle classes don't have big screen televisions, smartphones, etc.?

I kinda thought you might be aware of the huge numbers of used smartphones floating around for twenty bucks or less.
You didn't know it was possible to get a secondhand smartphone for couch change?
Holy crap, you must really BE very wealthy, and by that I am not expressing jealousy, I am just marveling at the thought that
you spend time with us cretins.
You must be so rich that you don't even know what stuff costs anymore, like Trump's buddy Mr. Cohn, who thought that a thousand bucks
could buy a new car.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/28/gar...x-savings-can-buy-a-family-a-car-kitchen.html

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

So, the working and middle classes don't have big screen televisions, smartphones, etc.?

How to get a 500 dollar HDTV flat screen TV for little or nothing:
Find one that someone is throwing out because they think it's totally dead, invest eight bucks in some capacitors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDmK12hlsLE

 

[Nickyjo]

Santa Trump did not write the bill but feel free to tweet him with your question.

Maybe he didn’t write it. Call me when he vetoes it. He owns it, he named it our Xmas gift.

 

[Nickyjo]

But the left argues that the bills don't have to paid, ever. The debt never has to paid. We can continue just adding to it forever.

Seems to me the last prez to preside over a balanced budget was Clinton, and Obama lowered the deficit most every year. Seems like Reagan and Bush created huge deficits. You have left and right mixed up.