Escort Services.

[Red_Dave]

The litmus test is: Does it increase the number of abortions? If it increased the number of unborn babies killed by abortion, it should be unlawful.

So you oppose the rollback of the welfare state in that case?

 

[Goshin]

That did always strike me as a strange double standard

"Can I pay someone to have sex, in the most degrading way possible, in front of thousands of people"

"Yeah whatever , its a free country"

"Can i pay someone to have sex behind closed doors?"

"No! what are you a monster!?"

IKR? I don't really like or approve of either but for one to be legal and the other not makes zero sense.

 

[Red_Dave]

IKR? I don't really like or approve of either but for one to be legal and the other not makes zero sense.

I don't think either one represents humanity at its most inspiring but the more each one is regulated the better it is for those involved. For example California and a number of states have very strict rules about regular testing for STIs etc. Whereas if pornogaphy were made illegal it would be dominated by the same gangs that are involved in human trafficking now.

 

[SCitizen]

"Can i pay someone to have sex behind closed doors?"

"No! what are you a monster!?"

In a Democracy, the will of the Majority is the Law. Among Americans, 51% of men and 30% of women support legalizing Escort Services, but they are not the majority. Most lonely men want these services to be legal, most married women strongly oppose such services.

 

[maquiscat]

In a Democracy, the will of the Majority is the Law. Among Americans, 51% of men and 30% of women support legalizing Escort Services, but they are not the majority. Most lonely men want these services to be legal, most married women strongly oppose such services.

Thankfully, in a Republic, the Rule of Law overrides the Will of the Majority.

 

[Red_Dave]

In a Democracy, the will of the Majority is the Law. Among Americans, 51% of men and 30% of women support legalizing Escort Services, but they are not the majority. Most lonely men want these services to be legal, most married women strongly oppose such services.

I´m still allowed to argue and anyone who maintains a pretence of actually caring about those involved should look at what they are saying. And sex workers trade unions have been formed with legalisation and regulation as a key goal.

 

[SCitizen]

Thankfully, in a Republic, the Rule of Law overrides the Will of the Majority.

The Law changes along with public opinion.

 

[maquiscat]

The Law changes along with public opinion.

It can, and has done so many times, but that does mean that it has always been per the majority feeling a certain way. Law has changed because challenges to them in the court has found them unconstitutional, despite the majority wanting the law to remain. Such pressures can also influence Congress, despite actual majority desire.

 

[SCitizen]

Such pressures can also influence Congress, despite actual majority desire.

As a mathematician I have studied the concept of fuzzy sets. Suppose in a country 60% of people weakly support legalizing Escort Services, and 20% are vehemently opposed to them. Then we are not sure who has the majority. A candidate who favors legalization will lose the majority of strong opponents -- 19% of votes. But he/she will only gain a small portion of weak supporters since they mostly would base their vote on other issues.

 

[maquiscat]

As a mathematician I have studied the concept of fuzzy sets. Suppose in a country 60% of people weakly support legalizing Escort Services, and 20% are vehemently opposed to them. Then we are not sure who has the majority. A candidate who favors legalization will lose the majority of strong opponents -- 19% of votes. But he/she will only gain a small portion of weak supporters since they mostly would base their vote on other issues.

As this past election has shown, you only need to be able to gain enough influence in the right areas. By getting enough people in a large variety of areas, you can possibly gain enough law makers to a given cause without having the actual majority.

 

[SCitizen]

By getting enough people in a large variety of areas, you can possibly gain enough law makers to a given cause without having the actual majority.

Hopefully there will be pressure groups supporting the legalization of Escort Services. It may seem as impossible in 2017 as legalization of marijuana seemed in 1997.

 

[maquiscat]

Hopefully there will be pressure groups supporting the legalization of Escort Services. It may seem as impossible in 2017 as legalization of marijuana seemed in 1997.

I am with you on the legalization of escort and even sex services. My only point was that in a Republic, it is not always majority rules and that the rule of law overrides the majority.

 

[zyzygy]

Do you not watch Shameless, lol. That's Kevin's topless maid cleaning service. :2razz:

You are the one who brought up vacuuming your neighbors house nekkid. :lol:

Crazy Cleaning - A Naked Student Cleaning Service | Oddity Central - Collecting Oddities

Londoners can now hire naked women from Naturist Cleaners to clean their homes (From Epsom Guardian)

 

[scatt]

it would still encourage the trafficking of adult women, which is despicable

Does this stop if selling sex for money consensually is banned?

 

[LaylaWindu]

That is a nonsensical article of faith, and like most faith-based beleifs, it has nothing to do with reality

The fact is that, even though it is a crime, there is a HUGE demand for a prostitutes services. if it were legal, demand would be even greater. Since we are not an impoverished country, there are not enough females desperate enough to do that work. The excess demand, and the higher prices that result, are an incentive for unsavory types to import women who *are* desperate (ie sex trafficking)

You might want to copy my WHOLE post since it's very relevant and nothign you posted here changes what I said and in fact lines up with it in ways. Regulation would cut down on the crime and trafficking.

 

[LaylaWindu]

The really really insane thing is that (in most states I think) it is perfectly legal to produce, film and sell a porno that includes actual sex, and pay the actors for same.



Um, derp??


WTF is the difference? The only one I see is that a third party is paying both participants and filming, rather than one party paying the other without the film.


For one to be legal and the other not is utterly insane.

Agreed, going by consistency and logic it simply doesn't add up and it is insane.

 

[American]

I'm in favor of decriminalizing sex workers, but not their customers or their pimps. We need to give maximum agency to the workers.

The reason I don't favor straight up legalization is because it will let the pimps and traffickers operate in broad daylight. They would just conceal their activities under other guises like they are already doing. If we tilt the power to favor the workers then they can get help if they need it by reporting abuses. For the workers that want to be doing the work, they can continue doing it without fear of reprisals.

Decriminalization also lets workers rent space from landlords rather than allowing the landlords to become de facto pimps of brothels.

What's the point in decriminalizing the prostitution/prostitutes while criminalizing the customers?

 

[Northern Light]

What's the point in decriminalizing the prostitution/prostitutes while criminalizing the customers?

This question has already been answered in the posts I made after the one you quoted.

 

[maquiscat]

This question has already been answered in the posts I made after the one you quoted.

Not very clearly. I asked the same question. You may think you have made it clear, but you haven't. Maybe reword your explanation.

 

[sangha]

In UK and Finland buying or selling sex is legal, but buying sex from a trafficked person is a strict liability offense. Many women are willing to make money in Escort Services voluntarily. Statistics about trafficking seem to be greatly exaggerated.



Legal Escort Services provide enormous benefit to tens of millions lonely men in most Europe, NZ, Australia.

Yeah, it is OK to force women to be sexual slaves because it benefits lonely men :roll:

 

[Sweden]

In Sweden selling sexual services is not a crime. But buying them is a criminal offence - in accordance with feminist doctrine that prostitutes are, always and by definition, exploited and that their customers are exploiters.

 

[sangha]

You might want to copy my WHOLE post since it's very relevant and nothign you posted here changes what I said and in fact lines up with it in ways. Regulation would cut down on the crime and trafficking.

I quoted the crux of your argument, such as it is.

And your argument has no relation to reality. Legalization will not eliminate pimps or trafficking.

You can declare that I am wrong but that is all you can do. You have no evidence to support your claims, while the evidence from nations that have legalized prostitution shows that legal prostitution results in human trafficking

 

[RAMOSS]

I quoted the crux of your argument, such as it is.

And your argument has no relation to reality. Legalization will not eliminate pimps or trafficking.

You can declare that I am wrong but that is all you can do. You have no evidence to support your claims, while the evidence from nations that have legalized prostitution shows that legal prostitution results in human trafficking

Well, let's look at what happened in Rhode Island, where they accidently legalized prostitution. They wanted to make the laws much more precise, and defined what acts were illegal. Selling sex inside was not explictly prohibited. It was first exposed when a porn movie case was thrown out, but came to the forefront when a lawyer pointed out that his clients (some asian massage workers) did not actually break any laws due to the way the laws were phrased (in 2003). The oversite did not actually get plugged until 2009.

The key was the language talked about street prostitution.. therefore indoor prostitution was legal (how silly).

But, I think the key part of the stuff was How Rhode Island Accidentally Legalized Prostitution - Business Insider

From

The report, published by the National Bureau of Economic Research, found that from 2004-2009, when indoor prostitution was decriminalized throughout Rhode Island, there was a 31% decrease in reported rapes and a 39% decrease in female gonorrhea reports

It started rising again in 2009

 

[SCitizen]

Yeah, it is OK to force women to be sexual slaves because it benefits lonely men :roll:

Consensual relationships between adults are not sexual slavery.

In UK and Finland buying or selling sex is legal, but buying sex from a trafficked person is a strict liability offense.

 

[gdgyva]

Though I understand how most men would find laws regarding prostitution and the sale of sex archaic, I am not one of them

And it isn't for puritanical reasons

I can't think of one little girl dreaming of growing up to be a sex worker....wanting to be used in that way

It is an occupation borne out of need and desperation, and in almost every case....something or someone forced them into the situation

For that reason alone, I can never see myself thinking it would be okay to legalize it

Would it make things easier for some men in society....sure

But who said life was supposed to be easy?

I ask myself, would I ever want my daughters or granddaughters to have to do that job.....

And my answer is a resounding no......