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El Paso Police's OWN DATA Shows Trump is Absolutely Correct About Crime and the Wall There

Border walls will not stop all illegal crossings but they will certainly slow foot traffic, just as Jim Acosta demonstrated when he went down to examine their effectiveness.

Walls will slow foot traffic, you are right. By maybe 15 minutes per person at the most, but that is definitely slowing foot traffic. The question becomes: Is it worth the estimated cost to create a minor inconvenience for border crossers? A moat would also slow foot traffic and would be cheaper to maintain, and even that wouldn't be worth the resources wasted on it.

Walls (and moats) work only when patrolled. And the extra benefit they provide over and above the patrolling guards is only realized in heavily patrolled areas of high population density where they give CBP agents extra time to intercept large groups of border crossers. In remote unpatrolled areas they do NOT work at all.
 
Walls will slow foot traffic, you are right. By maybe 15 minutes per person at the most, but that is definitely slowing foot traffic. The question becomes: Is it worth the estimated cost to create a minor inconvenience for border crossers? A moat would also slow foot traffic and would be cheaper to maintain, and even that wouldn't be worth the resources wasted on it.

Walls (and moats) work only when patrolled. And the extra benefit they provide over and above the patrolling guards is only realized in heavily patrolled areas of high population density where they give CBP agents extra time to intercept large groups of border crossers. In remote unpatrolled areas they do NOT work at all.

You are confusing fences with walls. You need to check out the differences between Obama fences and Trump walls.
 
Are you suggesting the US government provide wage subsidies to illegal immigrants still suffering from poverty?
No. I'm suggesting that anyone willing to work as hard, as we both agree illegal immigrants do, should earn enough to provide for themselves and their families and it's an indictment on American politicians and labor laws that that isn't always the case. I suggest raising the minimum wage and prosecuting employers who try to circumvent those wages.
Do you favor the practice of employers working illegals no matter what US law says to the contrary?
Do I advocate for slavery and indentured servitude? No of course not.
If not where do you think illegals will find the money to live once they sneak into our country?
I've already stated I prefer to change the law so that they aren't illegal and don't have to sneak. Do try to keep up so we don't have to retread worn ground.
Should hospitals refuse to treat illegals? If not then who will pay for the treatment, rich democrats? No, that will never happen.
Is your drive by dig at "rich democrats" and then immediate answer to your own question some sort of defense mechanism or a display of insecurity? Shouldn't an honest question stand without the insult or need to answer it before the person you're asking can even respond? I mean do I even have to point out that there are plenty of wealthy democrats as well as republicans and libertarians and progressives and people of all political stripes and colors who donate to charities that help the poor? Ideally, we would have a medicare for all type program that all working people would pay into through taxes.

There seem to be separate issues that you are conflating. Illegal immigration and the ever rising out of control costs for housing, education, and healthcare. Illegal immigration can be solved by a simple change in immigration policy. The fact that hard working people can't afford housing, education and healthcare is a separate issue. You seem to be saying that we have to build a wall to keep them out because we can't afford to take care of them even while you agree they are coming here to work and that they work hard. So why should people who work hard not be able to afford these essential things? And why does your Christian solution seem to be to kick them out of the country rather than address the reasons why education, housing and healthcare seem to be unattainable for hard working people? Does that not suggest the problem lies with wages and the rising cost of these commodities rather than the people themselves?
 
These people don't want to come here to leech off the American people. They come here for jobs and opportunity. No one can claim with a straight face that Mexicans and south Americans in general are lazy. They are some of the hardest working people I know. You conservatives can't seem to keep your stories straight, one minute they are taking American jobs and the next they are coming to take advantage of our welfare. It isn't very Christian of you to demagogue and lie.

Agree

I have worked with Mexicans, both legel and illegel. They have a good work ethic.
 
Being Mexican doesn’t impart a work ethic different than anyone else. FFS.

Any yes. I can say with a straight face that there are a whole lot of people coming here to leech off the American tax payer.

The hospital ER’s and urgent cares proves that. The public schools prove that. The IRS proves that.

I get to hear about it first hand from my in-laws both here and in Mexico. One of the biggest and most common frauds is the sharing of any and all SSN to max out deductions. And then claim each and every job under a different SSN. The IRS knows where they mail the checks.
 
Walls will slow foot traffic, you are right. By maybe 15 minutes per person at the most, but that is definitely slowing foot traffic. The question becomes: Is it worth the estimated cost to create a minor inconvenience for border crossers? A moat would also slow foot traffic and would be cheaper to maintain, and even that wouldn't be worth the resources wasted on it.

Walls (and moats) work only when patrolled. And the extra benefit they provide over and above the patrolling guards is only realized in heavily patrolled areas of high population density where they give CBP agents extra time to intercept large groups of border crossers. In remote unpatrolled areas they do NOT work at all.

A moat would be a waste of a very valuable resource, water.
Secondly the wall provides an infrastructure to place other resources on, ie. lights, motion sensors, anti tunneling devices, tampering devices, weight ground sensors.
Also I believe Trump and republicans are asking for more money for more patrol agents to make those walls successful. If only people would stop the hate.
 
No. I'm suggesting that anyone willing to work as hard, as we both agree illegal immigrants do, should earn enough to provide for themselves and their families and it's an indictment on American politicians and labor laws that that isn't always the case.

So you support the idea that when we bus the illegals into the US we should encourage them to find employers, like Trump, to hire them so they will not become dependents of the government?

I suggest raising the minimum wage and prosecuting employers who try to circumvent those wages. Do I advocate for slavery and indentured servitude? No of course not.

Make employers pay $30 to $100 per hour living wages regardless of the ability of their business to do so or shut them down? How is shutting down the economy going to be good for Americans?

I've already stated I prefer to change the law so that they aren't illegal and don't have to sneak. Do try to keep up so we don't have to retread worn ground.

OK. Make them legal but keep them flooding in until then? Should there be a limit to immigration, say capping the number at 3 billion? Aren't the poorest, least skilled, most unfit for hard labor the ones needing help from the US the most?

Is your drive by dig at "rich democrats" and then immediate answer to your own question some sort of defense mechanism or a display of insecurity?

Not insecurity. An attempt to introduce inconvenient truths into the equation for the purpose of causing democrats to think.

Shouldn't an honest question stand without the insult or need to answer it before the person you're asking can even respond? I mean do I even have to point out that there are plenty of wealthy democrats as well as republicans and libertarians and progressives and people of all political stripes and colors who donate to charities that help the poor? Ideally, we would have a medicare for all type program that all working people would pay into through taxes.

How much of the federal budget should be set aside to care for the poor, the homeless, the sick, the sinful, or the illegal? Should there be no cap on that kind of compassionate government spending? Can the government afford that even though it cannot afford the New Green Deal railroads?

There seem to be separate issues that you are conflating. Illegal immigration and the ever rising out of control costs for housing, education, and healthcare. Illegal immigration can be solved by a simple change in immigration policy. The fact that hard working people can't afford housing, education and healthcare is a separate issue. You seem to be saying that we have to build a wall to keep them out because we can't afford to take care of them even while you agree they are coming here to work and that they work hard. So why should people who work hard not be able to afford these essential things? And why does your Christian solution seem to be to kick them out of the country rather than address the reasons why education, housing and healthcare seem to be unattainable for hard working people? Does that not suggest the problem lies with wages and the rising cost of these commodities rather than the people themselves?


I'm not advocating kicking anyone out of the country. I'm urging Americans to consider how they are going to pay for the influx of hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers needing food, housing, transportation, education, healthcare and so forth when they come here with no job and with no legal way of getting a job.
 
So you support the idea that when we bus the illegals into the US we should encourage them to find employers, like Trump, to hire them so they will not become dependents of the government?
Is the none ridiculous version of that question whether the government should encourage employement? Do you need me to give any more obvious answers to easy questions? Should the government discourage homelessness? Promote education? The answer to all of these is obviously yes.



Make employers pay $30 to $100 per hour living wages regardless of the ability of their business to do so or shut them down? How is shutting down the economy going to be good for Americans?
Shutting down employers that don't meet government regulations isn't akin to shutting down the economy. Let's not let hyperbole confuse sound reason.

One, raising the minimum wage hasn't resulted in less employment. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades and yet as conservatives love to point out we have record levels of employment and job growth. Two, the proposal is 15 per hour minimum wage, not 30 or 100, either you're ignorant of the subject you're arguing or you think hysteria serves your argument, it doesn't. Three, an economy where full time employees can't maintain the most basic of standards for living is an economy that is already broken.



OK. Make them legal but keep them flooding in until then? Should there be a limit to immigration, say capping the number at 3 billion? Aren't the poorest, least skilled, most unfit for hard labor the ones needing help from the US the most?
I think you're confused. Hard labor is usually done by poor, unskilled workers. When people talk about hard labor the usually aren't referring to the work of C.E.O.'s and millionaires. As for a cap I would have no cap. I'd take AOC's Green New Deal, give it steroids and create high speed rail from the U.S. to south America so workers could commute from home to work easily and to bolster trade and economic opportunity between us and our biggest trade partners.


Not insecurity. An attempt to introduce inconvenient truths into the equation for the purpose of causing democrats to think.
Sure, if your purpose is to get me to think you're irrational.



How much of the federal budget should be set aside to care for the poor, the homeless, the sick, the sinful, or the illegal? Should there be no cap on that kind of compassionate government spending? Can the government afford that even though it cannot afford the New Green Deal railroads?
Isn't the purpose of government to care for the general welfare of the people? I remember reading that somewhere. If that's not it's purpose what is? How much should be expended? As much as it's necessary to foster a society that is healthy, educated and secure.




I'm not advocating kicking anyone out of the country. I'm urging Americans to consider how they are going to pay for the influx of hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers needing food, housing, transportation, education, healthcare and so forth when they come here with no job and with no legal way of getting a job.
Asked and answered. Change the laws so they can work legally.
 
Is the none ridiculous version of that question whether the government should encourage employement? Do you need me to give any more obvious answers to easy questions? Should the government discourage homelessness? Promote education? The answer to all of these is obviously yes.

As long as we are asking obvious questions should not the government do what it can to stop the flow of illegals into the country where they must either break the law by getting a job or just throw themselves on the government to take complete care of them?

Shutting down employers that don't meet government regulations isn't akin to shutting down the economy. Let's not let hyperbole confuse sound reason.

Shutting down the coal industry during a deep depression was one of the most moronic things a president could have ever done. Putting unrealistic non-competitive mandated heavy burdens on businesses, causing them to fail by the thousands will also hurt the economy.

One, raising the minimum wage hasn't resulted in less employment. We have been raising the minimum wage for decades and yet as conservatives love to point out we have record levels of employment and job growth. Two, the proposal is 15 per hour minimum wage, not 30 or 100, either you're ignorant of the subject you're arguing or you think hysteria serves your argument, it doesn't. Three, an economy where full time employees can't maintain the most basic of standards for living is an economy that is already broken.

You say raising the minimum wage is designed to help poor workers, but you fail to incorporate the serious negative effects that raising minimum wages without competitive forces driving that wage hikes will have on the overall economy. Employers struggling to remain viable under government mandated cost hikes will have to raise their prices. When prices go up so does the standard of living, thus negating the supposed benefits of hoped for increases in the wage/cost of living ratios. Businesses will also be forced to cut back on hours, thus negating the benefits hoped to be gained by a wage increase.

Passing government wage rates on businesses will have the overall effect of slowing the economy and driving up the cost of living.

I think you're confused. Hard labor is usually done by poor, unskilled workers. When people talk about hard labor the usually aren't referring to the work of C.E.O.'s and millionaires. As for a cap I would have no cap. I'd take AOC's Green New Deal, give it steroids and create high speed rail from the U.S. to south America so workers could commute from home to work easily and to bolster trade and economic opportunity between us and our biggest trade partners.

Send California your proposal as to how they can revive their dream of high speed rails without bankrupting their already teetering economy.

Sure, if your purpose is to get me to think you're irrational.

You say if my mission is to get you to think then I am doomed to fail?

Isn't the purpose of government to care for the general welfare of the people? I remember reading that somewhere. If that's not it's purpose what is? How much should be expended? As much as it's necessary to foster a society that is healthy, educated and secure.

Contrary to small-brained, big-hearted democrats, the mission of the US government is not to tax the daylights out of American citizens in order to take care of tens of millions of non-citizens who cannot work here for themselves.

Asked and answered. Change the laws so they can work legally.

Haiti, Cuba, Somalia, Kenya, Uganda, Java, and the rest of the world, send me your unemployed, send me your diseased, send me your lazy, send me your irresponsible, send my your lawless, and anyone else wishing for a better life, because we American democrats are determined to make the American taxpayers take care of you.
 
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You are confusing fences with walls. You need to check out the differences between Obama fences and Trump walls.

I did. Walls provide no extra benefit at multiple times the cost.
 
So you support the idea that when we bus the illegals into the US we should encourage them to find employers, like Trump, to hire them so they will not become dependents of the government?
You want to encourage people not to work? Um. Disagree with you there.


Make employers pay $30 to $100 per hour living wages regardless of the ability of their business to do so or shut them down? How is shutting down the economy going to be good for Americans?
Nobody suggested a $100/hour minimum wage, nor would raising minimum wage "shut down the economy."

OK. Make them legal but keep them flooding in until then? Should there be a limit to immigration, say capping the number at 3 billion? Aren't the poorest, least skilled, most unfit for hard labor the ones needing help from the US the most?
This is where we prove right wingers aren't actually "all in favor of legal immigration." None of you want to make legal immigration even slightly easier.

Not insecurity. An attempt to introduce inconvenient truths into the equation for the purpose of causing democrats to think.
You're attacking straw men, not introducing truth truth.


How much of the federal budget should be set aside to care for the poor, the homeless, the sick, the sinful, or the illegal? Should there be no cap on that kind of compassionate government spending? Can the government afford that even though it cannot afford the New Green Deal railroads?
We can afford more than we do now. It's a matter of priorities.

I'm not advocating kicking anyone out of the country. I'm urging Americans to consider how they are going to pay for the influx of hundreds of thousands of unskilled workers needing food, housing, transportation, education, healthcare and so forth when they come here with no job and with no legal way of getting a job.
Why are you asking people to consider the consequences of something they aren't advocating for in the first place?

Listen to yourself. People are repeatedly talking about immigrants coming here and working hard and you're screeching "HOW MANY PEOPLE CAN WE SUPPORT WHO DONT WORK HUH?"
 
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