Dutch Prosecutor Names Four To Be Charged With Murder In Downing Of MH17

[Rogue Valley]

Dutch Prosecutor Names Four To Be Charged With Murder In Downing Of MH17

Dutch prosecutor Fred Westerbeke.

6/18/19
Dutch prosecutors say three Russian nationals and a Ukrainian will be tried on murder charges for their alleged roles in the 2014 downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 over eastern Ukraine, which killed all 298 people on board. In announcing the first criminal charges in the air disaster, members from the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) told a news conference that evidence showed a direct line of military command between Ukrainian separatists and Russia.
To back up the claim, they played phone calls of the suspects discussing the incident by telephone, via social-media chats and a computer image reconstruction of events. "Today, we will send out international arrest warrants for the four suspects that we will prosecute," Dutch chief prosecutor Fred Westerbeke said.

"They will also be placed on national and international wanted lists. Because of that, we will reveal their full names and we will show you their pictures. The four persons are: Igor Girkin, Sergei Dubinsky, Oleg Pulatov, and Leonid Kharchenko," he added, noting that Kharchenko was Ukrainian, while the others held Russian citizenship.​ The JIT announced initially in 2016 that the sophisticated Buk missile system used in the attack came from Russia. Russia's 53rd Antiaircraft Missile Brigade had transported the Buk in 2014 to and from Ukraine, JIT additionally concluded in May 2018. ​The JIT said it will ask Russia on June 19 to extradite the suspects who are currently on Russian soil. "The criminal trial will take place even if the suspects choose not to appear in court," Westerbeke said.

These four were primarily involved in the transit of the BUK missile system from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia. There are ~20 Russian soldiers from the 53rd Antiaircraft Missile Brigade that tracked and then fired the BUK missiles that struck MH17 killing all 298 people aboard.

Related: Investigators Name 4 Top Suspects Behind MH17 Crash

 

[Grand Mal]

Dutch Prosecutor Names Four To Be Charged With Murder In Downing Of MH17

Dutch prosecutor Fred Westerbeke.



These four were primarily involved in the transit of the BUK missile system from Russia to Ukraine and then back to Russia. There are ~20 Russian soldiers from the 53rd Antiaircraft Missile Brigade that tracked and then fired the BUK missiles that struck MH17 killing all 298 people aboard.

Related: Investigators Name 4 Top Suspects Behind MH17 Crash

Will they be tried 'in absentia'?
I've sometimes thought that the US should try those Russians who meddled in the election 'in absentia' but that'll never happen.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Will they be tried 'in absentia'?

Yes. Moscow will not permit the defendants to appear in the Netherlands for either depositions or a trial. Russia is one huge sanctuary for Putin regime criminals.

I've sometimes thought that the US should try those Russians who meddled in the election 'in absentia' but that'll never happen.

At least not under this President and his Attorney General (William Barr). In Trumps eyes, such a trial would serve to "delegitimize" his 2016 election victory.

 

[TheParser]

We all know that Russia will never extradite those individuals and others to Holland for the trial.


The persons responsible for that atrocity are among the worst human beings ever born.


The pictures of bodies (including those of infants) lying in Ukrainian fields are horrific. One can only imagine the nightmares of those Ukrainians who actually saw the bodies falling from the sky.


If there were any justice in this world (and, of course, we know that there is not), no leader in the world would deign to speak with the individual who currently controls Russia.

 

[Westphalian]

It is regrettable that the JIT has throughout refused to co-operate with Russia. This has been a biased and politicised investigation.


The accusations made against the 4 individuals are baseless, not supported by facts. The JIT has not even visited the crash site. It's one of the worst and shabbiest crime investigations ever.


Russia regrets this terrible tragedy as much as anyone, but justice is not served by creating Stalinesque show trials and reflexively resorting to yet more Russia hatred.


Russia demands justice through a proper and impartial investigation. This farce does nobody any good.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Just mention MH17 and RT appears. Shazzam!

 

[Westphalian]

Just mention MH17 and RT appears. Shazzam!

Lies and fake news need to be countered whatever the source.

 

[Chagos]

Lies and fake news need to be countered whatever the source.

Yes indeed and that's why you and your lying cronies have such a hard time on here.

 

[Chagos]

It is regrettable that the JIT has throughout refused to co-operate with Russia. This has been a biased and politicised investigation.


The accusations made against the 4 individuals are baseless, not supported by facts. The JIT has not even visited the crash site. It's one of the worst and shabbiest crime investigations ever.


Russia regrets this terrible tragedy as much as anyone, but justice is not served by creating Stalinesque show trials and reflexively resorting to yet more Russia hatred.


Russia demands justice through a proper and impartial investigation. This farce does nobody any good.

What you repeatedly lie over is that this has anything to do with hate for Russia.

It may not even constitute hate for habitually lying propagandists of your ilk, despicable though they be.

The fact remains that anyone refusing cooperation here has been the Kremlin.

You know? That body of criminals so revered by you that it's a bloody wonder how you haven't yet called the Kremlin instigated Golunov frame-up a case of fake news by Western media.

Well, fortunately plenty of your fellow Russians that you are such an embarrassment to do not share into your detestable values.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Behind The Four Suspects Who Face Murder Charges For Shooting Down MH17

Short biographies of the four so far charged.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Russia Says MH17 Investigation’s Findings Are Groundless

6/20/19
Russia's Foreign Ministry said on Wednesday that it regretted the findings of the international investigation into the downing of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17and called murder charges against Russian suspects groundless. Three Russians and a Ukrainian will face murder charges for the 2014 downing of the MH17 jet over eastern Ukraine that killed 298 people, in a trial scheduled to start in the Netherlands next March, the Joint Investigation Team (JIT) said Wednesday.

Nothing is true until the Kremlin denies it[sup]®[/sup]


The first charges in the case of the jetliner shot down over Ukraine highlight the vast body of evidence against Russia.

Playing Dumb: The Kremlin's Denials on the Downing of MH17

 

[Westphalian]

Putin today on MH17 - you won't find the truth if you aren't prepared for where it might take you:


“Russia never avoids responsibility that is actually hers to bear. What we were presented as proof of Russia’s guilt absolutely doesn’t satisfy us. We believe it is no proof at all,”

“We have a version of our own, which we presented. But unfortunately nobody wants to listen to us. As long as we don’t have real dialogue, we won’t find the right answers to the questions about this tragedy and the deaths of people. We certainly mourn them and we believe such acts are intolerable.”

 

[Chagos]

Putin today on MH17 - you won't find the truth if you aren't prepared for where it might take you:


“Russia never avoids responsibility that is actually hers to bear. What we were presented as proof of Russia’s guilt absolutely doesn’t satisfy us. We believe it is no proof at all,”

“We have a version of our own, which we presented. But unfortunately nobody wants to listen to us. As long as we don’t have real dialogue, we won’t find the right answers to the questions about this tragedy and the deaths of people. We certainly mourn them and we believe such acts are intolerable.”

you won't find the truth if you aren't prepared for where it might take you:

We have a version of our own

I bet.

Twould be comical. were the occasion not such a sad one.

Kremlin lies spread here by the lying spreader of Kremlin lies.

 

[Westphalian]

I bet.

Twould be comical. were the occasion not such a sad one.

Kremlin lies spread here by the lying spreader of Kremlin lies.

Assigning false blame to Russia is the big lie here, peddled by the likes of yourself and WMSM.


Justice is never served by these Stalin like show trials. When do we see Messrs Blair or Bush standing trial for their WMD fiasco which led to the deaths (directly or indirectly) of 500,000+?
Evidence free show trials which send the likes of political leaders such as Milosevic to the dock whilst others make huge sums of money out of their mis-deeds? It's sick and disgusting.


So don't lecture me about truth when the West doesn't recognise any 'truth' except its own narrative.

 

[Chagos]

Assigning false blame to Russia is the big lie here, peddled by the likes of yourself and WMSM.

Here's some news for you, Gospodin, that you're unfamiliar with by the justice system of your country.

What has been decided here is to prosecute suspects, passing a verdict is still to happen. As such, should the perps really be found guilty, the question will then be whether it's actually murder. To establish that, proof would be needed that the perps truly intended to down a civilian airliner, something very few people even among the families of the victims believe.

Justice is never served by these Stalin like show trials.

Well, if anyone knows something about Stalinist show trials, it certainly must be you. Considering that when your country was rid of Stalin, it didn't abolish the practice- Certainly not where your Kremlin thug is concerned who made such trials fashionable again.

When do we see Messrs Blair or Bush standing trial for their WMD fiasco which led to the deaths (directly or indirectly) of 500,000+?
Evidence free show trials which send the likes of political leaders such as Milosevic to the dock whilst others make huge sums of money out of their mis-deeds? It's sick and disgusting.

This thread is not about any of those and that you need to resort to your usual tu quoques just shows how weak a debater you are. If indeed "debater" is something you can be called at all.

So don't lecture me about truth when the West doesn't recognise any 'truth' except its own narrative.

I'll lecture over your lies as much as I like, when I like and how I like.

 

[Westphalian]

Here's some news for you, Gospodin, that you're unfamiliar with by the justice system of your country.

What has been decided here is to prosecute suspects, passing a verdict is still to happen. As such, should the perps really be found guilty, the question will then be whether it's actually murder. To establish that, proof would be needed that the perps truly intended to down a civilian airliner, something very few people even among the families of the victims believe.Well, if anyone knows something about Stalinist show trials, it certainly must be you. Considering that when your country was rid of Stalin, it didn't abolish the practice- Certainly not where your Kremlin thug is concerned who made such trials fashionable again. This thread is not about any of those and that you need to resort to your usual tu quoques just shows how weak a debater you are. If indeed "debater" is something you can be called at all.

I'll lecture over your lies as much as I like, when I like and how I like.

Speaking of lies Chagos, and you peddle so many, I'll continue to correct your arrogant but blissful ignorance.


Back on topic, it seems that Malaysia is also un-convinced by the Dutch non investigation...... the 'investigation' that has never visited the crash site, and refuses to hear Russian evidence.

The result is this - frustration and the denial of justice:


PM: MH17 findings ‘politically-motivated’, no proof Russia to blame | Malaysia | Malay Mail

Prime Minister Tun Dr Mahathir Mohamad today claimed that the recent findings on the culprit behind the shooting down of Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was a “politically-motivated” conclusion to solely blame Russia.


In a press conference, Dr Mahathir also demanded proof that it was indeed Russia which was behind the shooting, adding that the incident was made into a political issue “from the very beginning”.

“We are very unhappy because from the very beginning, it became a political issue on how to accuse Russia of the wrongdoing. Even before they examine, they already said Russia.

 

[Rogue Valley]

But so far, there is no proof, only hearsay,” he said when asked if he is worried about Malaysia’s palm oil stake with Russia.

I imagine Dr Mahathir would be more than welcome to attend the trial in its entirety and ask any questions he may have.

In a not unexpected development, none of the Russian defendants will be attending the trial. Perhaps Dr Mahathir would care to explain that.

To the bolded above....

Malaysia aims to double palm oil sales to Russia

Setback for EU fighter jets as Malaysia bets on palm oil barter

Hamstrung by huge public debt, Malaysia is planning to use palm oil to buy military equipment, including fighter jets. Malaysia is also no stranger to swapping palm oil for military equipment. It bought Russian-built fighter jets using the controversial commodity in the 1990s. Malaysia's wish to divert some of its palm oil supplies — by swapping it for military equipment that it desperately needs — is also a move that could potentially increase the price of the vegetable oil. Malaysia has said China, Russia and Pakistan have expressed their willingness to be partly paid in palm oil for their fighter jets. Malaysia's latest attempt at barter trade could be beneficial for Russia, which has seen China walk away with many defense deals in the region and undercut Moscow's arm supplies. Russia has a long track record of swapping weapons for commodities in the region, including as part of its fighter jet deals with Indonesia and Vietnam.

 

[Chagos]

Speaking of lies Chagos, and you peddle so many,

You really think that your feeble attempt to turn the tables here will do anything for you? Like deflect from your dishonest behaviour here when it is so well documented by now?

I'll continue to correct your arrogant but blissful ignorance.

what is arrogant ignorance? Do you even read what you type before you click "send"?

Back on topic, it seems that Malaysia is also un-convinced by the Dutch non investigation...... the 'investigation' that has never visited the crash site, and refuses to hear Russian evidence.

The result is this - frustration and the denial of justice:


PM: MH17 findings ‘politically-motivated’, no proof Russia to blame | Malaysia | Malay Mail

So, let's speak about YOUR ignorance, Gospodin, be it blissful or not. Or be it even convenient and thus intentional, just to fit your lying narratives.

You ever hear of Malysia's need to barter palm oil for military equipment, simply because the country is hard up on cash? You ever hear how producers of military goods in the West are refusing to be paid in palm oil anymore, primarily on what its cultivation and harvest does to the overall environment, that of Malaysia included?

You ever hear of how the only countries still prepared to barter with Malaysia in that manner are Russia, China and, to a lesser extent, Pakistan?

You ever hear about how even only two months ago Malayan Defense Minister led a high level delegation to Moscow in order to engage in billion-dollar trade-offs on defence and security procurement, including military aircraft, armaments and software, to spur palm oil sales via the transfer of technology?

Now who do you reckon has greater problems with credibility, an investigative body moving where all evidence points or an opportunistic Head of State, whoring himself and his whole minions off to the Kremlin whoremaster?

Since you brought up arrogance of others, let's look at yours. Expressed in your arrogant belief that everybody is too stupid to know what you're about and will thus fall for the crap that you spout on behalf of your Kremlin masters.

You're on record here as one of the most dishonest posters this site currently has on offer and your feeble disinformation attempt above just serves to confirm the record.

It also serves to confirm another item that's on record, namely you being one of the worst failures in Kremlin apologia imaginable.

 

[Chagos]

I imagine Dr Mahathir would be more than welcome to attend the trial in its entirety and ask any questions he may have.

In a not unexpected development, none of the Russian defendants will be attending the trial. Perhaps Dr Mahathir would care to explain that.

To the bolded above....

Malaysia aims to double palm oil sales to Russia

Setback for EU fighter jets as Malaysia bets on palm oil barter

Since others may not click on the links while he will most likely run from them in precisely that hope, I took the trouble to elaborate in what has now turned out to be a cross-post.

Nevertheless, others may read it, even if he chooses to scuttle past it.

So thanks for your above which I can't put a like on, the relevant button as yet not having appeared.

 

[Westphalian]

Malaysia is part of the Joint Investigation Team.

The accusations made therefore are extremely significant as they reflect claims made by a party to the investigation - an insider.

This whole charade has been politicised from the start. Russia was blamed immediately. This ridiculous show trial is a travesty, and now the whole embarrassing bandwagon is being revealed for what it is.

Russia demands a proper investigation and real justice. This is owed to the victims.

 

[Chagos]

Malaysia is part of the Joint Investigation Team.

The accusations made therefore are extremely significant as they reflect claims made by a party to the investigation - an insider.

This whole charade has been politicised from the start. Russia was blamed immediately. This ridiculous show trial is a travesty, and now the whole embarrassing bandwagon is being revealed for what it is.

Russia demands a proper investigation and real justice. This is owed to the victims.

Most telling how you try to sail past the issue of the palm oil trade off item. Thus scuttling, as predicted, away from something you cannot fit into your dishonest narrative.

All the while appearing to be totally unaware of how what you deem to be clever is actually so pathetic.

One would be amazed at the Kremlin actually employing such poor apologia failures as you, were it not for the general incompetence shown in practically all other fields. From GRU agents too stupid to avoid identification to police authorities too stupid to organize a simple frame-up, I guess you're just another poster child for overall Kremlin incompetence.

 

[Westphalian]

Whilst it's easy to ignore Russia as we all know they're really bad in every way, it's less easy for western shrills to ignore a party to the investigation.

This whole sorry charade is unravelling. Not that western media have bothered to report this mutiny in the ranks. But the rest of the world is familiar with western show trials and ugly Russia hating.

The Dutch have proved incapable of uniting the Joint Investigation Team. It's a humiliation.

A proper independent investigation should be started by Malaysia, to include visits to the crash site and the consideration of the detailed evidential records in Russian hands.

We need truth and we demand justice for the victims.

 

[Chagos]

Whilst it's easy to ignore Russia as we all know they're really bad in every way, it's less easy for western shrills to ignore a party to the investigation.

This whole sorry charade is unravelling. Not that western media have bothered to report this mutiny in the ranks. But the rest of the world is familiar with western show trials and ugly Russia hating.

The Dutch have proved incapable of uniting the Joint Investigation Team. It's a humiliation.

A proper independent investigation should be started by Malaysia, to include visits to the crash site and the consideration of the detailed evidential records in Russian hands.

We need truth and we demand justice for the victims.

Most telling how you try to sail past the issue of the palm oil trade off item. Thus scuttling, as predicted, away from something you cannot fit into your dishonest narrative.

All the while appearing to be totally unaware of how what you deem to be clever is actually so pathetic.

One would be amazed at the Kremlin actually employing such poor apologia failures as you, were it not for the general incompetence shown in practically all other fields. From GRU agents too stupid to avoid identification to police authorities too stupid to organize a simple frame-up, I guess you're just another poster child for overall Kremlin incompetence.

 

[Chagos]

Meanwhile Malaysia's Solicitor-General III Mohd Hanafiah Zakaria, who is a member of the JIT, has reiterated the government’s commitment in the investigating team in seeking justice for the victims.

“Malaysia’s stand is to go by the rule of law and due process. So we are with JIT with regard to the findings,” he said at a press conference by the JIT in Nieuwegein, Netherlands, on June-19.

He did not comment over whether he found his own PM's statement embarrassing.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Plus there are dozens of officers and soldiers involved from Russia's 53rd Anti-Aircraft Battalion based in Kursk, Russia.

Kursk is ~390 km (242 miles) distant from the MH17 shoot-down site near Toretsk, Ukraine.

With a military escort (supplied), it would be relatively easy to drive the Buk system from Kursk to Toretsk, shoot down MH17, and return to Russian territory all in one day.

Kursk, Russia to near Toretsk, Ukraine. Everything to the right of the gray borderline is Russian territory.