Duggars expecting SIXTEENTH grandchild. Great example for young people.

[Angel]

No it points to your increadibly dishonesty

Remember I tried to be nice to you until you lied and insulted me.
At that point you lost any sympathy or repsect I had for you.

Insulted you? Produce the post or stop lying.

 

[Angel]

And so it continues:

Quag: Morality is subjective
Rest of room: No it's not. Here's why not
Quag: Morality is subjective..
Rest of Room. No, and here is another example of why it isn't.
Quag: Morality is subjective.
Rest of Room: Here are case studies, links, sources showing why morality is objective
Quag: Morality is subjective.

"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.
Winston Churchill"

Again, speak for yourself debate loser, you don't speak for the rest of the room. Quag is right, you are not.

Mr King, Quag is wrong, Mashmont is right, and if you speak for the rest of the room, then speak: what argument can you make to support the assertion that morality is subjective?
Now Quag offered a definition of "subjective," which we didn't need, and roguenuke offered the diversity of moral views in the world, but diversity does not refute the objectivity of morality, diversity merely supports the subjectivity of moral judgments, but the subjectivity of moral judgments does not refute the objectivity of morality.

That review to save us some time and effort.

So now speak for the rest of the room and offer your argument for the subjectivity of morality.

 

[zyzygy]

This news just in. A pair of rabbits expect their two hundredth grandchild!

 

[roguenuke]

Has anyone here said any different? What's the point of this point?

If there is no measure of beauty, then there is no beauty.

Beauty exists as love does, because we believe in it. It can be said that there are plenty of benefits to love and beauty, even if they are not measurable.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[roguenuke]

Before people had time to study the motions of the world/sun it was universally thought. Go back to the dawn of civilization and there was no way for anyone to conceive of it differently.

We can't know that. We don't know that someone could not have conceived of Earth revolving around the sun.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Angel]

Beauty exists as love does, because we believe in it. It can be said that there are plenty of benefits to love and beauty, even if they are not measurable.

Don't the eye and the heart measure in these two cases? (Or the ear as well, we should add.) Isn't detection a measurement?

 

[Angel]

The Last Word

I'm afraid W.B. Yeats had the last word, one hundred years ago.
And one hundred years later those of you who have defended disorder in this thread help make Yeats' prophetic utterance the last word.

The Second Coming
W. B. Yeats - 1865-1939

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


This poem is in the public domain.
The Second Coming by W. B. Yeats - Poems | Academy of American Poets

Yeats began writing the poem in January 1919, in the wake of the First World War, the Russian Revolution, and political turmoil in his native Ireland. But the first stanza captures more than just political unrest and violence. Its anxiety concerns the social ills of modernity: the rupture of traditional family and societal structures; the loss of collective religious faith, and with it, the collective sense of purpose; the feeling that the old rules no longer apply and there’s nothing to replace them.

Yeats’s “Second Coming”—Our Most Thoroughly Pillaged Poem

This news just in. A pair of rabbits expect their two hundredth grandchild!

Beauty exists as love does, because we believe in it. It can be said that there are plenty of benefits to love and beauty, even if they are not measurable.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Not disproven, and still you don't speak for the rest of us.

But notice Quag never offers anything. He just keeps putting his hands over his ears and repeats the same old disproven drivel.

The record is there, man.

 

[roguenuke]

Don't the eye and the heart measure in these two cases? (Or the ear as well, we should add.) Isn't detection a measurement?

No. Those are not measurements, simply personal opinions. There is a reason for the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". It isnt measurable and it isnt objective. It simply is something that can benefit us because of how it makes us feel.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[zyzygy]

I just detected some clouds in the sky. I was unable to measure them.

 

[Quag]

You backed up your claim with a dictionary definition of subjective. Get real, man!
And where did you come up with that false attribution that I don't think evolution is real. Show the post or stop making crap up in desperation.

Yes I used a dictionary to show you what thedefinition of subjective is. The horror!
I should have just invented a definition like you do!

 

[Quag]

Everything there points to what you're denying.

No it doesnt. not even close

 

[Quag]

You backed up your claim with a dictionary definition of subjective. Get real, man!
And where did you come up with that false attribution that I don't think evolution is real. Show the post or stop making crap up in desperation.

I used a dictuionabry to show you the definition of subejctive
THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

 

[Quag]

You made one fallacious argument based on the definition of "subjectivity." It's on record, man. Who do you think you're kidding?

It wasnt fallacious it is factgual that ios the meanign of the word. Its not my problem if you dont like the meaning of words.

 

[Quag]

The record is there, man.

Yes it is and you showed your true colors

 

[Quag]

Insulted you? Produce the post or stop lying.

I did stop being dishonest

 

[Quag]

We can't know that. We don't know that someone could not have conceived of Earth revolving around the sun.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

Admittedly but it would be hard to imagine anyone thinking so if you go back far enough.

 

[Quag]

Mr King, Quag is wrong, Mashmont is right, and if you speak for the rest of the room, then speak: what argument can you make to support the assertion that morality is subjective?
Now Quag offered a definition of "subjective," which we didn't need, and roguenuke offered the diversity of moral views in the world, but diversity does not refute the objectivity of morality, diversity merely supports the subjectivity of moral judgments, but the subjectivity of moral judgments does not refute the objectivity of morality.

That review to save us some time and effort.

So now speak for the rest of the room and offer your argument for the subjectivity of morality.

You realize this is like when you backed gfm/ITN right?

 

[zyzygy]

You realize this is like when you backed gfm/ITN right?

Angel is ignoring the learned articles that I posted which show that morality is subjective.

 

[Angel]

Angel is ignoring the learned articles that I posted which show that morality is subjective.

And zyzygy is ignoring the scientific articles, lectures, papers and talks that I posted which show that morality is fundamentally biological and objective, not to mention my own argument, in my own words, that morality is objective.

zyzygy has not posted an argument of his own; zyztgy has posted the catchphrase "morality is subjective." Presumably zyzygy believes he speaks ex cathedra on the question of morality.

 

[Angel]

Yes I used a dictionary to show you what thedefinition of subjective is. The horror!
I should have just invented a definition like you do!

I used a dictuionabry to show you the definition of subejctive
THE HORROR!!!!!!!!

It wasnt fallacious it is factgual that ios the meanign of the word. Its not my problem if you dont like the meaning of words.

The definition of "subjective" is not an argument for the subjectivity of morals/

Your "argument" ran thus:

What is "subjective" is of or in the mind.
Morality is of or in the mind.
Therefore, morality is subjective.

First of all, this is a classic invalid syllogism. (A is S, B is S, therefore B is A)
Secondly, your second premise is the very proposition you are supposed to argue for. Here it is assumed True. Another fallacy called "begging the question."
All you've put forth as an argument for your thesis is a definition.
The rest of your posts are about me personally.

 

[Angel]

No. Those are not measurements, simply personal opinions. There is a reason for the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". It isnt measurable and it isnt objective. It simply is something that can benefit us because of how it makes us feel.

What do you think "measure" means in the famous saying of Protagoras: "Man is the measure of all things."

 

[roguenuke]

What do you think "measure" means in the famous saying of Protagoras: "Man is the measure of all things."

That a philosophical saying, not scientific evidence of feelings or beauty being measurable. Nor of morality, or right and wrong being measurable.

If you think they are measurable, provide the units for good or bad, for morality.

Sent from my SM-N970U using Tapatalk

 

[Angel]

That a philosophical saying, not scientific evidence of feelings or beauty being measurable. Nor of morality, or right and wrong being measurable.

If you think they are measurable, provide the units for good or bad, for morality.

Yes, we've already recognized that yours is a narrow scientific meaning of "measure." What do you think Protagoras meant by "measure"?

 

[Angel]

The Last Word

I'm afraid W.B. Yeats had the last word, one hundred years ago.
And one hundred years later those of you who have defended disorder in this thread help make Yeats' prophetic utterance the last word.

The Second Coming
W. B. Yeats - 1865-1939

Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.

Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again; but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?


This poem is in the public domain.
The Second Coming by W. B. Yeats - Poems | Academy of American Poets

Yeats’s “Second Coming”—Our Most Thoroughly Pillaged Poem

You're wasting your time, Angel.
You can't wring blood from a stone.
The writing is on the wall.
The barbarians are at the gate.
The cliches carry.

​

 

[devildavid]

And zyzygy is ignoring the scientific articles, lectures, papers and talks that I posted which show that morality is fundamentally biological and objective, not to mention my own argument, in my own words, that morality is objective.

zyzygy has not posted an argument of his own; zyztgy has posted the catchphrase "morality is subjective." Presumably zyzygy believes he speaks ex cathedra on the question of morality.

Who knew that biology, which deals strictly with the physical, somehow had anything to do with the concept of morality? What could be the moral implications of brown eyes and curly hair?