Dow plunges more than 600 points on confusion over status of U.S.-China trade deal

[JacksinPA]

Dow Jones down again? I expect a tweet or two today about how this is all the democrats fault. Or will he blame that evil caravan of muslim terrorists and hispanic murderers again?

No. He'll blame it on Obama.

 

[JacksinPA]

All I have to say is that somebody's getting rich off this volatility, and it ain't ****ing me.

Yup. The smart people shorted the market when Trump met with Xi.

 

[Parrish]

And now it's -799.36 at 25,027.07.

 

[Cardinal]

Honestly I wouldn't go that far. I think it's just a product of the fact that (1) he's a nationalist by his own admission, and (2) he's a moron by his own admission. (Well he didn't explicitly say the latter, but just about everything that comes out of his mouth proves it.)

It's time to stop pretending he's a moron. He's certainly selectively ignorant about a good many things that aren't important to him. But grifting? He's been doing that his whole damn life, and he's really good at it.

 

[Phys251]

You're right. What was I thinking? Facts mean nothing when you have biased spin, speculation, innuendo and hyperbole, right?

The Dow closed nearly 800 points lower than it opened, over a thousand points below its local maximum late last January. But who cares about Wall Street! :lamo

 

[Cardinal]

And now it's -799.36 at 25,027.07.

A dollar says it recovers about that much within the next two days.

Of course, if I was really certain about my CT, I'd be acting on it with my own money: just buying and selling after every up-and-down bounce. Knowing my gambling luck, though, the volatility would stop the instant I started to play that game.

 

[JustHanging]

You're right. What was I thinking? Facts mean nothing when you have biased spin, speculation, innuendo and hyperbole, right?

Yeah, that's Trump's basic strategy alright. And yes, his base seems to be following suit.

 

[Mach]

All the experts say that in the long run what you're actually doing, whether you're aware of it or not, is betting against the market.
I'm not qualified to agree or disagree with this.

I can't imagine how that would be, but I am no expert either. I'd love to hear why if anyone knows. A cursory look on online pulled up the usual shorts/put options, which is not what is going on.
When I hear betting against the market, I think short/put to make money FROM a stock drop/correction. Profiting when the market drops.
Relative to the market, I'm issuing a market buy, I make nothing, it's just a buy.

More than anything, I periodically have to remind myself to invest, and seeing a big market correction just rings my bell, gets me off my butt and I execute it ASAP so it happens same day. First two times I invested, I did so right at a peak. It didn't' seem very productive, so I do the opposite now.
Now, if someone holds lump some for a long time, just waiting for a correction, that can be counter-productive because they may miss out on all the gains prior, which may be offset by the correction. I get that too...I don't wait all that long. But what's too long? No idea...

 

[Parrish]

A dollar says it recovers about that much within the next two days.

Of course, if I was really certain about my CT, I'd be acting on it with my own money: just buying and selling after every up-and-down bounce. Knowing my gambling luck, though, the volatility would stop the instant I started to play that game.

How about just taking a :2bow: ?

 

[Cardinal]

I can't imagine how that would be, but I am no expert either. I'd love to hear why if anyone knows. A cursory look on online pulled up the usual shorts/put options, which is not what is going on.
When I hear betting against the market, I think short/put to make money FROM a stock drop/correction. Profiting when the market drops.
Relative to the market, I'm issuing a market buy, I make nothing, it's just a buy.

More than anything, I periodically have to remind myself to invest, and seeing a big market correction just rings my bell, gets me off my butt and I execute it ASAP so it happens same day. First two times I invested, I did so right at a peak. It didn't' seem very productive, so I do the opposite now.
Now, if someone holds lump some for a long time, just waiting for a correction, that can be counter-productive because they may miss out on all the gains prior, which may be offset by the correction. I get that too...I don't wait all that long. But what's too long? No idea...

What you're about to read is written by an idiot, so tread with caution:

The logic as I understand it is that what you're doing is better than nothing, and does work in the short term. Investing money, even according to a buy-low strategy, is better than not doing it at all. But when you take the really long term picture into account, as well as constant compound interest, you're actually rewarded more by keeping to a regular investment schedule.

That's not to say that keeping extra money on the side for market drops isn't handy, though.

Of course we really should wait for somebody who does this stuff for a living to comment on my post. That said, I'm sure there's an online program somewhere that shows what happens when you invest $6000 every six months during market lows, versus $1000 every month regardless of where the market is.

 

[MateoMtnClimber]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...60ce2a8148f_story.html?utm_term=.97fc34732992

The economic agreement President Trump said he reached with Chinese leader Xi Jinping on Saturday showed signs of unraveling Tuesday, with the White House threatening new penalties against Beijing and multiple officials seeking to downplay expectations for an eventual deal.

Investors, who had applauded the deal on Monday, turned sharply negative Tuesday. In midday trading, the Dow Jones industrial average had dropped more than 800 points or about 3 percent. The Standard and Poor’s 500-stock index and tech-heavy Nasdaq were also down about 3 percent.
==================================================
The stories about this trade deal with China keeps changing. This is not surprising considering the fact that Trump keeps changing his version of reality.

He is an abject moron. How has he still not realized that the Chinese government could not care less about his insults and compliments? Then he walks out of a room, lies to the entire world about what happened inside it, and thought China would let him get away with it? The man should find another veteran to fight with or another child molester to endorse and leave governing to the adults.

 

[PoliSciXtina]

I lump sum invest when it drops like this. No idea if it's good or bad, but it feels right. Market corrects, buy, otherwise sit. Really sophisticated.

My dad does this too. He handles our investments as well because I’m not too good at it. Ha.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[PoliSciXtina]

Who cares about Wall Street? Those idiots will lose a trillion dollars if a bear ****s in the woods unexpectedly.

The media still hasn't come to understand that our economy isn't about Wall Street anymore.

Hey now! Many people care. Myself included. A lot of people invest for their retirement, so your statements are false to assume no one cares! Are you ever going to stop blaming the media for every little thing? It just sounds ridiculous, really it does! It won’t kill you to admit that trump sometimes makes crappy decisions. It won’t kill ya, I promise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Geoist]

Dow Jones down again? I expect a tweet or two today about how this is all the democrats fault.

I'm sure he'll blame the Fed, yet again. If he's good at anything it is finger-pointing.

 

[Geoist]

Who cares about Wall Street?

Trump cares. He cares a lot.

 

[Mach]

Of course we really should wait for somebody who does this stuff for a living to comment on my post. That said, I'm sure there's an online program somewhere that shows what happens when you invest $6000 every six months during market lows, versus $1000 every month regardless of where the market is.

I allude to that in my last sentence. That's a different thing, that's lump sum vs dollar cost averaging. Betting against the marketing is profiting when it drops, like shorts/options.
I think I know what you mean though, sitting out of the market for lump sum, is "not betting as much" on the market. But lump sum can be inheritance, where you actually invest faster than the dollar cost person...or one like me where you build it up in a year and time it within a 6-12 month window with a correction...and if you miss it, you just do it at 12 months anyway.

For lump sum vs dollar cost, I don't think it really matters long-term, everything I read early on said to pick what works for you. Lump sum tends to perform better for slightly increased risk, dollar cost averaging mitigates some risk. Long term, I think it's all a wash. I feel good doing just one or two transactions a year, when the markets correct. If they don't correct at a decent time interval, I still invest that year. It was more of a remark that when stocks drop, people make money, it's a great buy opportunity.

 

[Atomic Kid]

Tin foil hat time!

What if Trump is screwing with the news just to make the market bounce up and down so he can make himself and his friends tons of money? Is it crazy? I don't know; maybe a little. Would it be just like him to do? Oh, you betcha.



Or, maybe (and continuing with my tin foil hat theme) he helped himself a lot, he's already buying up tons of stock, and in another few days another "surprise announcement" causes the market to go back up ~500 points. Rinse and repeat.

I wouldn't put anything past that shyster. Might be interesting to look at whom he called or who has called on him in proximity to these markets shifts and see what decisions these people made in their investment portfolios relative to those shifts and see if a pattern emerges that suggests there may exist a correlation.

 

[Mach]

I wouldn't put anything past that shyster. Might be interesting to look at whom he called or who has called on him in proximity to these markets shifts and see what decisions these people made in their investment portfolios relative to those shifts and see if a pattern emerges that suggests there may exist a correlation.

The finance sector of our economy is a glorious place, while other segments ebb and flow, they just boom....I wonder why.

Remember that Mercer guy that founded/funded Cambridge analytica? He helped pioneer AI in finance...no way these guys don't have what amounts to a system that is rigged against the average 401K investor.

 

[Mycroft]

The Dow closed nearly 800 points lower than it opened, over a thousand points below its local maximum late last January. But who cares about Wall Street! :lamo

Exactly.

Oh...to be sure...some people care about Wall Street. You know, the speculators...the people who run the computers that make the micro-second transactions...those people care. Those are the people who **** their pants and lose a billion dollars when Trump tells them that that China will negotiate or he'll increase tariffs.

In the meantime, working people are working. Factories are making stuff. People are buying stuff. Main Street is moving right along.

Me? I don't care about Wall Street. I care about Main Street.

 

[Mycroft]

Nobody who lived through the Great Recession should ever make such a stupid comment.

Hey now! Many people care. Myself included. A lot of people invest for their retirement, so your statements are false to assume no one cares! Are you ever going to stop blaming the media for every little thing? It just sounds ridiculous, really it does! It won’t kill you to admit that trump sometimes makes crappy decisions. It won’t kill ya, I promise.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Then you should care about the people who caused the market to drop. It sure wasn't people like you.

Tell me...who do you think got triggered by Trump's words and dropped 600 points off the market? Did you sell? I don't think so. I think you are a victim of those trigger-happy investors.

 

[Mycroft]

Nobody who lived through the Great Recession should ever make such a stupid comment.

Trump cares. He cares a lot.

No. He really doesn't.

 

[Phys251]

Then you should care about the people who caused the market to drop. It sure wasn't people like you.

Tell me...who do you think got triggered by Trump's words and dropped 600 points off the market? Did you sell? I don't think so. I think you are a victim of those trigger-happy investors.

:yawn:

Please don't confuse yourself by believing that your words are of any value.

 

[MTAtech]

Look at the numbers in that link I reported. Then tell me what makes you think we'll have another recession?

Economists see the Trump economy slowing drastically next year before a possible recession in 2020

Economic growth pops in 2018, boosted by tax cuts, but those benefits should fade in 2019 and growth will get back to its longer-term pace of near 2 percent.
A group of 10 economists, including the Fed, have an average forecast of 2.4 percent for 2019, according to a CNBC survey.
Three big factors are behind the slower growth — fading impact of tax cuts, trade wars and tariffs and the Federal Reserve's rate-hiking policy.
Economists do not see a recession until 2020, at the earliest.
...
Major firms this week have been releasing forecasts for next year, and both Goldman Sachs and J.P. Morgan see growth slowing to below 2 percent in the second half of 2019. But at the same time, the two firms expect the Federal Reserve to raise interest rates four times, while other economists believe the Fed may have to move at a slower pace.

 

[The Mark]

All I have to say is that somebody's getting rich off this volatility, and it ain't ****ing me.

Times like this I wonder if his kids are betting on the stock price going down and then urging their dad to say things like this on Twitter.

If one tweet can effect the market that much, they could make a ****load on the up AND down sides of that spike.

 

[Mycroft]

Economists see the Trump economy slowing drastically next year before a possible recession in 2020

The Fed has no real reason to hike rates...unless they want to put their thumb on the scale.

Sounds like a self fulfilling prophesy to me.