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Does red-blue animosity account for the botched federal pandemic response?

Does red-blue animosity account for the botched federal pandemic response?

  • Yes

    Votes: 6 19.4%
  • Maybe some of it

    Votes: 12 38.7%
  • No

    Votes: 11 35.5%
  • I don't know

    Votes: 1 3.2%
  • The federal response has been great!

    Votes: 1 3.2%

  • Total voters
    31
It’s absolutely baffling why some people think that Trump is divisive.

Yes, I totally agree. It has been the left, even before the election, who were divisive. During the campaign Hillary called millions of people deplorables and the left call the right racists, bigots, misogynists, and claim the right is fighting a war against women, seniors, minorities, immigrants, and cute little puppy dogs. That is called divisiveness.
 
One of the enduring puzzles this year has been why the GOP and the Trump administration in particular didn’t take an emerging pandemic seriously and didn’t act with any urgency from the outset.

Certainly we know the seeds for the current failure were sewn over the past few years as the administration took a sledgehammer to global disease surveillance and pandemic preparedness, but we can presumably chalk that up to standard rightwing ideological abhorrence of both good government and administrative competence.

But once the virus emerged, the 'strategy' quite transparently was: test as little as possible to stay in the dark on actual case counts and spread, pretend it'll go away, and forget about it. And try and make some Culture War hay out of public health measures. With hindsight of course we know that failed miserably from a public health perspective, but also was profound political malpractice. But surely even six months ago it was obvious that botching a pandemic would be a political liability?

If you assume the Trump folks are rational political animals, they either must have not seen this incompetence and non-response as a political liability or they knew they were in over their heads and were simply resigned to failing (which certainly seems to be Trump's posture now). If the former, why wouldn't it be a liability?

The obvious and unsettling possibility is that they saw it as a blue state problem for which they wouldn't take an appreciable political hit--indeed, perhaps they could even turn their failure against political opponents in those states. That's a horrifying thought, but it does find some support in a recent article on the national testing fiasco:

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”

There's another thread on this somewhere.

I hope there is a full investigation...ASAP.


This is the barely coherent and grammatically inept speech of a man who desperately wants to be able to claim that he "cured coronavirus."

That's it, in a nutshell. When we do get a handle on this crisis, he wants to be able to pull out footage and declare "I called it! I said use this! I said try this! I told them to do this, it was my idea!" He's just doing it with lots of stupid stuff because he doesnt want to miss an opportunity. He's afraid 'the big one' will be mentioned and he wont get credit for it.

It's all about declaring himself the savior of the cv crisis and we'll hear all about it, esp in his campaign. (Which is basically each of his press briefings these days) --- Lursa
 
The only thing that botched the Federal response is Trump. Full responsibility falls on him.

We wouldn't have even needed a federal response if New York state hadn't spread the virus to the rest of the country due to their total and complete ineptness.
 
One of the enduring puzzles this year has been why the GOP and the Trump administration in particular didn’t take an emerging pandemic seriously and didn’t act with any urgency from the outset.

Certainly we know the seeds for the current failure were sewn over the past few years as the administration took a sledgehammer to global disease surveillance and pandemic preparedness, but we can presumably chalk that up to standard rightwing ideological abhorrence of both good government and administrative competence.

But once the virus emerged, the 'strategy' quite transparently was: test as little as possible to stay in the dark on actual case counts and spread, pretend it'll go away, and forget about it. And try and make some Culture War hay out of public health measures. With hindsight of course we know that failed miserably from a public health perspective, but also was profound political malpractice. But surely even six months ago it was obvious that botching a pandemic would be a political liability?

If you assume the Trump folks are rational political animals, they either must have not seen this incompetence and non-response as a political liability or they knew they were in over their heads and were simply resigned to failing (which certainly seems to be Trump's posture now). If the former, why wouldn't it be a liability?

The obvious and unsettling possibility is that they saw it as a blue state problem for which they wouldn't take an appreciable political hit--indeed, perhaps they could even turn their failure against political opponents in those states. That's a horrifying thought, but it does find some support in a recent article on the national testing fiasco:

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”

Trump intentionally cut out blue states. So, yes, but not in a "both sides" kind of way.
 
Republicans and especially trump are all about the money. Human lives sacrificed to keep the profits flowing for the megarich? Of course.

150,000 dead Americans to keep the profits flowing is an acceptable casualty rate.

Even liberal states have realized they can't hang out the "closed for business" signs.
 
Before the Pandemic hit the US and UK were rated as the most prepared countries to respond to a pandemic

https://www.washingtonpost.com/heal...luded-is-fully-prepared-pandemic-report-says/

The US had a rating of 83, the UK 77.9, South Korea, 70 and Germany was not in the top 14 (or not rated)

Now, did the US and UK fail because their plan did not work, or because they did not follow the plan. If they did not follow the plan, who decided that? in the UK we can clearly see that was a decision made by the Boris government

What was the plan? Do you even know?
 
Yes, I totally agree. It has been the left, even before the election, who were divisive. During the campaign Hillary called millions of people deplorables and the left call the right racists, bigots, misogynists, and claim the right is fighting a war against women, seniors, minorities, immigrants, and cute little puppy dogs. That is called divisiveness.

Trump literally ignored the pandemic because he thought it was only affecting blue states. 159,000 Americans are dead because he didn't think that "his people" would die. And if you happily stood by and supported him because you believed the same, then every single dead American is your fault as well.
 
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Trump literally ignored the pandemic because he thought it was only affecting blue states. 159,000 Americans are dead because he didn't think that "his people" would die. And if you happily stood by and supported him because you believed the same, then every single dead American is your fault as well.

Trump talked about a travel ban on New York. Lefties balked, saying that that was not necessary.
 
Trump talked about a travel ban on New York. Lefties balked, saying that that was not necessary.

Trump literally ignored the pandemic because he thought it was only affecting blue states. 159,000 Americans are dead because he didn't think that "his people" would die. And if you happily stood by and supported him because you believed the same, then every single dead American is your fault as well.
 
Trump talked about a travel ban on New York. Lefties balked, saying that that was not necessary.

That was not the problem or the mobile hospitals and hospital ships would have been sent back; it was right wingers claiming the pandemic is a hoax, that exacerbated the issue.
 
What was the plan? Please enlighten us.

National Pandemic Strategy | Pandemic Influenza (Flu) | CDC

A whole lot of reading if you want to educate yourself


Provide guidance to all levels of
government on the range of options for
infection-control and containment,
including those circumstances where
social distancing measures, limitations
on gatherings, or quarantine authority
may be an appropriate public health
intervention.
• Emphasize the roles and responsibilities
of the individual in preventing the
spread of an outbreak, and the risk to
others if infection-control practices are
not followed


The Federal government certainly failed in the above two areas
 
One of the enduring puzzles this year has been why the GOP and the Trump administration in particular didn’t take an emerging pandemic seriously and didn’t act with any urgency from the outset.
Did it ever occur to you that President Trump was informed of the facts of the pandemic long before they played out, and that his approach still makes the only sense in light of it all?

We learned everything we needed to know about COVID-19 from Wuhan in December and January, plus research previously done on the other four common-cold coronaviruses. The hyper-geniuses in the Pentagon basement likely created all the possible scenarios and Trump was informed:

1. There's no way to keep older more infirm Americans safe from the virus once it begins to spread; isolating older and infirm people from the general population is largely impossible. That is, indeed, sadly true.

2. The infection fatality rate is about 0.60%, maybe it's about 17 times more deadly than the flu's 0.035%. It's not SARS; it won't wipe us out.

3. It's highly contagious, and because it can be picked up from objects and people will simply cross contaminate, so masks alone are not enough -- it will spread.

4. Immunity whether from vaccine or recovering from a case of COVID-19 will only be good for 3-6 months, so herd immunity is a fantasy and not worth attempting to pursue.

5. Quarantines and shutdowns will not eliminate the virus, as too many people's ideologies won't let them obey quarantines and shutdowns (think right wing conspiracy theorists, BLM rioters, etc.).

6. We do not have in the federal warehouses sufficient masks, hand sanitizer, and other equipment to do a mass shutdown for 28 days with essential workers conscripted and housed in sanitized barracks delivering us our food.

7. Even if we did do a mass shutdown for 28 days, we'd have to seal off the borders, and that means no flights in and out of America without mandatory 14-day quarantines until the rest of the world snuffs out the virus too. Our economy requires international travel. A mass shutdown will not work.

8. Our borders are too porous to prevent the virus from sneaking back in illegally.

9. Rush development has immediately begun to fund immuno-therapy treatments/cures, and that's the best we can do there.

10. Rush development has immediately began to fund vaccine creation, and that's the best we can do there.

11. The goal now is to accept acceptable losses that will be upon us .. but keep the economy up and running as best as possible.

12. Many states, especially those with large dense populations that thereby will have Democrat governors are going to want to shut their state down, and they have every states right to do so and cannot be stopped, so that's life. Simply encourage those states to carefully consider the damage that can be done to the economy and not cause the whole country to go down.

13. There will be losses until treatment and vaccine are developed. Encourage individual self-protection for the elderly and the infirm, do the best you can to prevent panic (such as the President himself eschewing masks as long as possible), and keep the whip up on treatment and vaccine development. That's the best we can do. Don't look panicked, as that will panic the people!

All of this is what President Trump did.

Considering all we know now about the virus that was also completely knowable back in January and February, the only thing Trump did was to hide the truth of it all from everyone as long as possible to keep spirits up.

All facts considered, I don't have a big problem at all with what the President did.
 
If we had the money the Dems pissed away trying to impeach Trump we might have a vaccine by now.

Dumbest post of the thread so far. But I haven't read very far so don't pat yourself on the ass just yet.
 
We’ve seen the narrative here countless times that the coronavirus was a blue state problem. The only way to get trump, who was bored with the pandemic, to care about it was for his advisors to tell him that “our people” in red states were also being infected with it.

Not that that did any good either, ultimately:

President Donald Trump was "bored" with the coronavirus pandemic, seeing it — and its average of 850 American deaths, each day, since February — as a distraction from all of the "wins" he wished he could campaign on instead.

But then, apparently, senior advisers tried a new approach: They told the president the coronavirus wasn't just killing liberals in blue states but was hurting Republicans and could spread in swing states.

"Our people." That's the term one senior Trump administration official used in an interview with The Washington Post. On Monday, the paper reported that senior advisers to the president had begun providing him "maps and data showing spikes in coronavirus cases among 'our people' in Republican states."

It worked, The Post reported, saying the tactic seemed "to resonate" with the president, who then "hewed closely to pre-scripted remarks" in subsequent news briefings. While the messaging on face coverings remained incoherent — they're not without their own problems, Trump claimed — the president was allowing himself to be seen with a mask on, heeding the urging of Republicans battling the coronavirus in their home states.

Trump advisers tell him virus hurting '''our people,''' Republicans: WaPo - Business Insider

It’s absolutely baffling why some people think that Trump is divisive.

It's absolutely baffling why anyone would even think to take you seriously.
The only way to get trump, who was bored with the pandemic, to care about it was for his advisors to tell him that “our people” in red states were also being infected with it

Leave this idiocy and the rest that follows it in the basement.
 
Did it ever occur to you that President Trump was informed of the facts of the pandemic long before they played out, and that his approach still makes the only sense in light of it all?

We learned everything we needed to know about COVID-19 from Wuhan in December and January, plus research previously done on the other four common-cold coronaviruses. The hyper-geniuses in the Pentagon basement likely created all the possible scenarios and Trump was informed:

1. There's no way to keep older more infirm Americans safe from the virus once it begins to spread; isolating older and infirm people from the general population is largely impossible. That is, indeed, sadly true.

2. The infection fatality rate is about 0.60%, maybe it's about 17 times more deadly than the flu's 0.035%. It's not SARS; it won't wipe us out.

3. It's highly contagious, and because it can be picked up from objects and people will simply cross contaminate, so masks alone are not enough -- it will spread.

4. Immunity whether from vaccine or recovering from a case of COVID-19 will only be good for 3-6 months, so herd immunity is a fantasy and not worth attempting to pursue.

5. Quarantines and shutdowns will not eliminate the virus, as too many people's ideologies won't let them obey quarantines and shutdowns (think right wing conspiracy theorists, BLM rioters, etc.).

6. We do not have in the federal warehouses sufficient masks, hand sanitizer, and other equipment to do a mass shutdown for 28 days with essential workers conscripted and housed in sanitized barracks delivering us our food.

7. Even if we did do a mass shutdown for 28 days, we'd have to seal off the borders, and that means no flights in and out of America without mandatory 14-day quarantines until the rest of the world snuffs out the virus too. Our economy requires international travel. A mass shutdown will not work.

8. Our borders are too porous to prevent the virus from sneaking back in illegally.

9. Rush development has immediately begun to fund immuno-therapy treatments/cures, and that's the best we can do there.

10. Rush development has immediately began to fund vaccine creation, and that's the best we can do there.

11. The goal now is to accept acceptable losses that will be upon us .. but keep the economy up and running as best as possible.

12. Many states, especially those with large dense populations that thereby will have Democrat governors are going to want to shut their state down, and they have every states right to do so and cannot be stopped, so that's life. Simply encourage those states to carefully consider the damage that can be done to the economy and not cause the whole country to go down.

13. There will be losses until treatment and vaccine are developed. Encourage individual self-protection for the elderly and the infirm, do the best you can to prevent panic (such as the President himself eschewing masks as long as possible), and keep the whip up on treatment and vaccine development. That's the best we can do. Don't look panicked, as that will panic the people!

All of this is what President Trump did.

Considering all we know now about the virus that was also completely knowable back in January and February, the only thing Trump did was to hide the truth of it all from everyone as long as possible to keep spirits up.

All facts considered, I don't have a big problem at all with what the President did.

And yet the European hotspots have cooled down dramatically, many in single digit Covid deaths in 24 hour periods. Canada had 2 in the previous 24 hours, Spain 9, UK 9, Germany 6, and the US had 545. Somebody dropped the ball, that's for sure, but your President says he takes no responsibility so it's up to someone else to pick up the ball and carry it.
 
Kushner's coronavirus team shied away from a national strategy, believing that the virus was hitting Democratic states hardest and that they could blame governors, report says.

Kushner COVID-19 plan axed because virus hit Democrats worst: report - Business Insider

Yes, I've read the assumptions and lack of actual evidence for such a thing holding merit as well.

Then again. This isn't the first time that playing a game of "so my brother's, sister's, mother's gardener said this" Has evened up biting the lot of you in the ass before.
 
I picked no. The person responsible for the pandemic response is DJT. He needs to take a long hard look in the mirror. He had the control and failed miserably and now 160,000 people are dead.
 
Yes, I've read the assumptions and lack of actual evidence for such a thing holding merit as well.

Then again. This isn't the first time that playing a game of "so my brother's, sister's, mother's gardener said this" Has evened up biting the lot of you in the ass before.

From the article:

"Members of Jared Kushner's coronavirus task force considered a national-scale testing plan early in the US's coronavirus outbreak.

However, according to a new Vanity Fair report, the plan never came to be, partly because the task force thought it would be better politically to hold off."
 
Absurd. The reason we are in trouble is because of Trump. He is the problem. Get rid of him and we can recover.
 
From the article:

"Members of Jared Kushner's coronavirus task force considered a national-scale testing plan early in the US's coronavirus outbreak.

However, according to a new Vanity Fair report, the plan never came to be, partly because the task force thought it would be better politically to hold off."

I guess you didn't read where that was assumed?
 
One of the enduring puzzles this year has been why the GOP and the Trump administration in particular didn’t take an emerging pandemic seriously and didn’t act with any urgency from the outset.

Certainly we know the seeds for the current failure were sewn over the past few years as the administration took a sledgehammer to global disease surveillance and pandemic preparedness, but we can presumably chalk that up to standard rightwing ideological abhorrence of both good government and administrative competence.

But once the virus emerged, the 'strategy' quite transparently was: test as little as possible to stay in the dark on actual case counts and spread, pretend it'll go away, and forget about it. And try and make some Culture War hay out of public health measures. With hindsight of course we know that failed miserably from a public health perspective, but also was profound political malpractice. But surely even six months ago it was obvious that botching a pandemic would be a political liability?

If you assume the Trump folks are rational political animals, they either must have not seen this incompetence and non-response as a political liability or they knew they were in over their heads and were simply resigned to failing (which certainly seems to be Trump's posture now). If the former, why wouldn't it be a liability?

The obvious and unsettling possibility is that they saw it as a blue state problem for which they wouldn't take an appreciable political hit--indeed, perhaps they could even turn their failure against political opponents in those states. That's a horrifying thought, but it does find some support in a recent article on the national testing fiasco:

How Jared Kushner’s Secret Testing Plan “Went Poof Into Thin Air”
There is no "botched" response. Your post is moot.
 
I guess you didn't read where that was assumed?

Also from the article:

"The logic, a source told Vanity Fair, was that the virus would hit Democratic-voting areas hardest and that the damage could be blamed on governors instead."
 
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