• Please read the Announcement concerning missing posts from 10/8/25-10/15/25.
  • This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Does archaeology Prove or Disprove stories in the Old Testament (Tanakh)?

PLEASE! Can we get back on topic?

For those arguing about the person known as Jesus of Nazareth and his presumed relationship with the Old Testament deity

- START ANOTHER THREAD!! PLEASE!
 
bomberfox said:
There isnt a son of god in judaism as far as i know. The messiah was not supposed to be the son of god, that was changed when christianity came around to introduce a new messiah.
Click to expand...

Just responding to that previous poster. Then I'll move on.

Nope. Your claim isn't based on the OT scriptures. The Christian Messiah isn't anything new. He was always supposed to be divine. Rabbinic and other confirmations of this in the following article.

Messiah to be God

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be Go...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU
 
Logicman said:
Just responding to that previous poster. Then I'll move on.

Nope. Your claim isn't based on the OT scriptures. The Christian Messiah isn't anything new. He was always supposed to be divine. Rabbinic and other confirmations of this in the following article.

Messiah to be God

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be Go...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU
Click to expand...

This site can’t be reached

The webpage at https://menorah.org/Messiah to be G...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU might be temporarily down or it may have moved permanently to a new web address.

ERR_SSL_UNRECOGNIZED_NAME_ALERT
 
Logicman said:
It's not a secure website but it opens for me every time with no problems.

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be Go...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU
Click to expand...

Gosh, what a load of hokey that article is. Point 1. It ignores that Hebrew custom of naming children after characteristics of God. 2) It ignores the Hebrew idiom that a 'branch' was a family lineage, going through an unbroken male line. It reads into the text things that are not there, and ignores what IS there.

That entire site is nothing but a fraud trying to convert Jews.
 
Logicman said:
It's not a secure website but it opens for me every time with no problems.

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be Go...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU
Click to expand...

Man!! Your site just PERFECTLY MAKES MY POINT FOR ME!!!!

This is literally from the first line of the site you posted..

“BURIED WITHIN the pages of the book of Jeremiah lies one of the most precious and revealing prophecies of the Messiah (see Vocabulary p.6) to be found within the bounds of the Hebrew scriptures. “


“BURIED WITHIN...”

The primary event in the history of the universe is not told unambiguously in first person from god to his followers, so there is no confusion...

NO!!!!

He decided to hide the primary pillar of gods laws to man “BURIED WITHIN “ one of many books of the Old Testament...

I mean he very directly and repeatedly says ,

“never, ever change my laws or believe anyone who tells you to change my laws”

But that part is not really important...

No the important part must be put together piece meal from passages “buried within” the various books..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Logicman said:
Just responding to that previous poster. Then I'll move on.

Nope. Your claim isn't based on the OT scriptures. The Christian Messiah isn't anything new. He was always supposed to be divine. Rabbinic and other confirmations of this in the following article.

Messiah to be God

http://menorah.org/Messiah to be Go...tDA3mzxUugseyekcJSB_oiTuJ07FyX29p4gWfMdxAOadU
Click to expand...

Man!! Your site just PERFECTLY MAKES MY POINT FOR ME!!!!

This is literally from the first line of the site you posted..

“BURIED WITHIN the pages of the book of Jeremiah lies one of the most precious and revealing prophecies of the Messiah (see Vocabulary p.6) to be found within the bounds of the Hebrew scriptures. “


“BURIED WITHIN...”

The primary event in the history of the universe is not told unambiguously in first person from god to his followers, so there is no confusion...

NO!!!!

He decided to hide the primary pillar of gods laws to man “BURIED WITHIN “ one of many books of the Old Testament...

I mean he very directly and repeatedly says ,

“never, ever change my laws or believe anyone who tells you to change my laws”

But that part is not really important...

No the important part must be put together piece meal from passages “buried within” the various books..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
RAMOSS said:
Gosh, what a load of hokey that article is. Point 1. It ignores that Hebrew custom of naming children after characteristics of God. 2) It ignores the Hebrew idiom that a 'branch' was a family lineage, going through an unbroken male line. It reads into the text things that are not there, and ignores what IS there.

That entire site is nothing but a fraud trying to convert Jews.
Click to expand...

That's just more of your usual horse manure. Even rabbis are on record in the article as acknowledging that the passage is Messianic, etc.
 
ArtemisBarca said:
Man!! Your site just PERFECTLY MAKES MY POINT FOR ME!!!!

This is literally from the first line of the site you posted..

“BURIED WITHIN the pages of the book of Jeremiah lies one of the most precious and revealing prophecies of the Messiah (see Vocabulary p.6) to be found within the bounds of the Hebrew scriptures. “


“BURIED WITHIN...”

The primary event in the history of the universe is not told unambiguously in first person from god to his followers, so there is no confusion...

NO!!!!

He decided to hide the primary pillar of gods laws to man “BURIED WITHIN “ one of many books of the Old Testament...

I mean he very directly and repeatedly says ,

“never, ever change my laws or believe anyone who tells you to change my laws”

But that part is not really important...

No the important part must be put together piece meal from passages “buried within” the various books..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Click to expand...

The passage isn't really "buried" to the diligent who dig deep. Just to those who are superficial or biased in their reading.
 
Logicman said:
The passage isn't really "buried" to the diligent who dig deep. Just to those who are superficial or biased in their reading.
Click to expand...

So it is not BURIED, but requires someone “DIG DEEP” to find it.


LOL


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Logicman said:
That's just more of your usual horse manure. Even rabbis are on record in the article as acknowledging that the passage is Messianic, etc.
Click to expand...

Oh, but that wasn't the claim of your nonsense web site. You did read it, didn't you? Now you are doing what is known as 'building a straw man'.
 
ArtemisBarca said:
So it is not BURIED, but requires someone “DIG DEEP” to find it.

LOL
Click to expand...

It went over your head until it was brought to your attention, right? LOL. And it's right there in the scriptures. No shovel is needed to see it, right?

So get a new whine.
 
Logicman said:
It went over your head until it was brought to your attention, right? LOL. And it's right there in the scriptures. No shovel is needed to see it, right?

So get a new whine.
Click to expand...

That post was a diversionary tactic to avoid the fact that you can't actually support your claim.
 
Logicman said:
It went over your head until it was brought to your attention, right? LOL. And it's right there in the scriptures. No shovel is needed to see it, right?

So get a new whine.
Click to expand...

Yea right there.... piecemeal .. split up with a verse here and a verse there in a book of many, many verses..


Oh and of course the verses before and after are talking about something totally different and you have assume a butt load of symbolism...



All while the Bible is specifically saying “Don’t believe anyone who comes along trying to change the laws..


Suuuuuurrrreee


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Logicman said:
It went over your head until it was brought to your attention, right? LOL. And it's right there in the scriptures. No shovel is needed to see it, right?

So get a new whine.
Click to expand...

PS oh hell know... I am far more familiar with the passages, including the primary one in Isaiah, than 99.999999% of Christians..


It is just nonsense... COMPLETELY nonsense when factoring in it’s supposed importance to salvation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
ArtemisBarca said:
Yea right there.... piecemeal .. split up with a verse here and a verse there in a book of many, many verses..

Oh and of course the verses before and after are talking about something totally different and you have assume a butt load of symbolism...

All while the Bible is specifically saying “Don’t believe anyone who comes along trying to change the laws..

Suuuuuurrrreee
Click to expand...

You don't have any formal education in Biblical Theology and Hermeneutics, do you? I do. And if you had that you would probably have knowledge of the the "branch" in Messianic literature - by Rabbis and Christian scholars alike. It's quite detailed and comprehensive.

You might also have come across "The Deity Of Messiah In The Tenach And Other Jewish Writings" ( The Deity of Messiah in the Tenach and other Jewish Writings ) - that along with the information on the Deity of the Messiah that was previously provided you in my previous post.

But since you are clearly a novice on these issues, it doesn't come easy to you. In fact, it has clearly escaped you.

But study up, and one day you and Ramoss too can run with the big dogs.
 
Logicman said:
You don't have any formal education in Biblical Theology and Hermeneutics, do you? I do. And if you had that you would probably have knowledge of the the "branch" in Messianic literature - by Rabbis and Christian scholars alike. It's quite detailed and comprehensive.

You might also have come across "The Deity Of Messiah In The Tenach And Other Jewish Writings" ( The Deity of Messiah in the Tenach and other Jewish Writings ) - that along with the information on the Deity of the Messiah that was previously provided you in my previous post.

But since you are clearly a novice on these issues, it doesn't come easy to you. In fact, it has clearly escaped you.

But study up, and one day you and Ramoss too can run with the big dogs.
Click to expand...

Oh god, not yet another group trying to convert Jews. Can't you understand that is not credible ?
 
Logicman said:
That's your opinion.
Click to expand...

It's a fact that none of the supernatural claims asserted within the New Testament have ever been authenticated; thus your unfamiliarity with the term "corroborated" is not my opinion whatsoever.


OM
 
I made a thread, " The most interesting religious video I have ever seen", that appears to have archeological evidence confirm OT stories.

This particular one confirms the Moses story, or at least shows where it was sourced from..
 
Omega Man said:
It's a fact that none of the supernatural claims asserted within the New Testament have ever been authenticated; thus your unfamiliarity with the term "corroborated" is not my opinion whatsoever.


OM
Click to expand...

Keep parroting that nonsense. Maybe you'll convince a poor person or something.
 
Logicman said:
Keep parroting that nonsense. Maybe you'll convince a poor person or something.
Click to expand...

On the other hand, his comment is accurate, and you can not show it to be false.
 
Logicman said:
You don't have any formal education in Biblical Theology and Hermeneutics, do you? I do. And if you had that you would probably have knowledge of the the "branch" in Messianic literature - by Rabbis and Christian scholars alike. It's quite detailed and comprehensive.

You might also have come across "The Deity Of Messiah In The Tenach And Other Jewish Writings" ( The Deity of Messiah in the Tenach and other Jewish Writings ) - that along with the information on the Deity of the Messiah that was previously provided you in my previous post.

But since you are clearly a novice on these issues, it doesn't come easy to you. In fact, it has clearly escaped you.

But study up, and one day you and Ramoss too can run with the big dogs.
Click to expand...

99.99% of Christians do not have any formal training lol...

What I do have is probably 1,000 hours of lectures, debates and documentaries on the subject of Christianity..

HUGE Bart Ehrman fan.. you would be hard pressed to find a debate of his I haven’t watched..

However, For this topic specifically (was Jesus predicted in the OT), I personally go for debates between Jews and messianic Christians. They cut straight to the relevant contested points..

Because the question of ,

“was Jesus predicted in the OT”

is answered by,

“For the same reason so few Jews converted?”.



Even in the first century, the narrative that Christianity was selling, FUNDAMENTALLY looked/looks nothing like Judaism..

Nothing....

It is only considered an extension/continuation of Judaism in name only.. No Jew , atheist or critical scholar ever agreed with Christianity’s storyline.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
please stop!​

This thread is supposed to be looking at archaeological evidence that proves or disproves some of the stories found in the Old Testament. Could we try to return to that subject?
 
ArtemisBarca said:
99.99% of Christians do not have any formal training lol...

What I do have is probably 1,000 hours of lectures, debates and documentaries on the subject of Christianity..

HUGE Bart Ehrman fan.. you would be hard pressed to find a debate of his I haven’t watched..
Click to expand...

Nuts. I've got 40+ years and two theology degrees, and Bart Ehrman's theology needs a lot of help. "Misquoting" Jesus? Answering Bart Ehrman: Apologetics on CBN.com

ArtemisBarca said:
Even in the first century, the narrative that Christianity was selling, FUNDAMENTALLY looked/looks nothing like Judaism..

Nothing....

It is only considered an extension/continuation of Judaism in name only.. No Jew , atheist or critical scholar ever agreed with Christianity’s storyline.
Click to expand...

Au contraire...

The New Testament Jesus looks amazingly like what was prophesied about the Jewish Messiah. IMO Christ critics have a fundamentally flawed concept of the Jewish Messiah and when he was supposed to appear - the 1st century. Examples in the article below.

Why Israel Missed its Messiah << The Righter Report
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom