Do your support going to war with Turkey over Syria?

[joko104]

The warhawks on both sides and in the corporate media for going to war with Turkey over Syria and the Kurds. I can not recall any potential war anywhere in the world that the warhawk have not insisted we must be in - and must be in forever.

The Kurds did not fight for us. They fought for themselves and we provided weapons, troops and support for our own goals.

I oppose the US leaving American troops in Syria forever, just like I oppose us keeping troops in S. Korea forever, Iraq forever, and Afghanistan forever. I oppose the assumed truism that the United States is the police force of the world - for which for the first time in the entire history of nations we will endlessly sacrifice American lives, endlessly kill in war, and endlessly spend money on wars for the purpose of assuring no national borders on earth are every changed again - throwing our military into combat to protect everyone's border - but our own.

You?

 

[cabse5]

The warhawks on both sides and in the corporate media for going to war with Turkey over Syria and the Kurds. I can not recall any potential war anywhere in the world that the warhawk have not insisted we must be in - and must be in forever.

The Kurds did not fight for us. They fought for themselves and we provided weapons, troops and support for our own goals.

I oppose the US leaving American troops in Syria forever, just like I oppose us keeping troops in S. Korea forever, Iraq forever, and Afghanistan forever. I oppose the assumed truism that the United States is the police force of the world - for which for the first time in the entire history of nations we will endlessly sacrifice American lives, endlessly kill in war, and endlessly spend money on wars for the purpose of assuring no national borders on earth are every changed again - throwing our military into combat to protect everyone's border - but our own.

You?

I'm still trying to figure out why Turkey is attacking northern Syria and that Syria seems to be allowing it to happen.

 

[Ikari]

Well it didn't take Turkey long to begin its ethnic cleansing anyway.

 

[joko104]

I'm still trying to figure out why Turkey is attacking northern Syria and that Syria seems to be allowing it to happen.

Every group in the region has always wanted their own country. If every group got their way, then sub-group, there would be 1000 countries in the region - and still they would all be in conflict with each other with endless territorial wars. They have fought over land, race, religion, clan, ancestry with each other for over 3000 years.

The Kurds want their own country of Kurdistan and have for a very long time. The Kurds have been fighting defensively but also offensively for that goal, with their wanting a large chuck of Turkey. Because of our supplying the Kurds with weapons for our own goals, the Kurds are increasingly a significant military force poising an insurgency risk to Turkey.

It appears Syria has become the "safe zone" for Kurdish rebels and freedom fighters, protected under the wing of the American military. Turkey probably wants to stop the growing military might and basis for a territorial claim for creating a Kurdistan territory in Syria as a launching point against areas of Turkey with a significant Kurdish population.

Since the Kurds also want Northern Syria also in their quest for a country of their own, Syria has every reason to not support the Kurds and there is not much the Syrian government/military could do about it anyway.

We are "allies" to both the country of Turkey and to the ethic group of the Kurds. Any military involvement we take is not only betraying an ally, but going to war against an ally - since both sides are so-called allies. Both were agreeable and supportive to our military actions in the region, not just the Kurds. Turkey is an advanced actual country. The Kurds are a collection of Kurdish clans, no country. The Kurds fought in self defense, not because they wanted to help us. Every group in that region predictably is for themselves - not us.

 

[joko104]

The warhawks always have their reasons for war. It doesn't matter if they are hypocritical. Rather, they just beat the same war drums.

Up until a few decades ago, the history of the USA was of using military force, often with extreme brutality and force, to seize any neighboring land we want - from the Spanish, French, British, and dozens of Native American nations. We established colonies we operated under strict martial law and with military force all over the world. We still do in many countries. We have military bases all over the world.

But the warhawks who always demand and support all the proactive military activity, also declare we should go to war against any country that acts like us, and that we should go to war against any group, people or country that doesn't like being under our military and economic thumb.

No matter what the facts and reasons are, no matter how much the reasons for wars we are in are exactly opposite the reasons for other wars we are in, the war hawks will claim any and all facts and reasoning will always be furiously declared are reasons for getting into still more wars - and once in that war we must stay at war in that country or region until the end of time. There are no exceptions.

 

[Ikari]

Would Putin even allow Trump to go to war with Turkey right now?

 

[joko104]

We had no victory and leaving plan when we defeated Iraq - and are still there.
We had no victory plan when we took over Afghanistan - and are still there.
We had no victory plan when we went to war in Syria - and we are still there.

What is your victory plan when we defeat Turkey and face a perpetual insurgency there too?

If you want us to be at military war with Turkey in Syria, what is your plan when we win? Go to war against Egypt? Libya? Yemen? - while perpetually militarily occupying Turkey fighting insurgent Turks in their own country?

Or do you want this to be a perpetual proxy war in Syria, where the Turks have safe home base in Turkey by our not attacking Turkey?

Do you REALLY love the Vietnam War, Korean War, Iraq Wars (2), and Afghanistan War SO that much you want to do it in Syria for the next century with Turkey?

 

[mrdeltoid]

The US keeps troops all over the world as it come with the territory. The difference between attacking a country, and attacking a country that hosts troops from the most powerful military in the world, prevents many wars from kicking off.
The Turkey situation is iffy. Turkey is a foe of Russia, and a member of NATO, which both of those positions align with us. The only thing preventing Turkey from invading Syria was US troops in the way. What is tricky, while Turkey is our ally, so are the Kurds that fought along side US troops that defeated ISIS in that region. Hence the dilemma. So my answer to the thread question is a strong.... I don’t know.

 

[joko104]

Would Putin even allow Trump to go to war with Turkey right now?

^ A lazy and stupid TDS message attempting to derail the topic.

 

[akyron]

When did Congress authorize the war in Syria?

 

[Ikari]

^ A lazy and stupid TDS message attempting to derail the topic.

Well I'm sure the Kurdish people are well appreciative of your argument.

lol

 

[Lovebug]

I am against wars. Not sure if avoiding them altogether is possible.
What is going on with Syria and Turkey at the moment has me baffled, but I'm sure the experts will enlighten those of us who aren't military experts.
One of my questions is whether 30 to 50 people have much of an impact, or are they merely window dressing. I suspect we aren't being told all the details.

 

[joko104]

The US keeps troops all over the world as it come with the territory. The difference between attacking a country, and attacking a country that hosts troops from the most powerful military in the world, prevents many wars from kicking off.
The Turkey situation is iffy. Turkey is a foe of Russia, and a member of NATO, which both of those positions align with us. The only thing preventing Turkey from invading Syria was US troops in the way. What is tricky, while Turkey is our ally, so are the Kurds that fought along side US troops that defeated ISIS in that region. Hence the dilemma. So my answer to the thread question is a strong.... I don’t know.

Sometimes the true answer is there is no good answer.

This is what we know about putting our troops in the middle of any fighting between factions in that country - factions that have been fighting each other for more than 100 generations. If we get in the middle, increasingly the population decides that instead of killing each other, instead they will try to kill us - forcing us to try to kill all of their males of fighting age.

 

[Drawdown]

I'm still trying to figure out why Turkey is attacking northern Syria and that Syria seems to be allowing it to happen.

They are trying to drive out the PKK terrorists back to Iraq. The PKK wants to create their own version of a Caliphate in Syria and Turkey. Syria is willing for it to happen because it gets another group of terrorists out of their country and frees up the territory for its former residents to safely return home.

 

[joko104]

Well it didn't take Turkey long to begin its ethnic cleansing anyway.

Are you a Kurd as the reason you insist we continue to defend the Kurds so no one can stop their ethnic cleansing?

Have the Syrian Kurds Committed War Crimes? | The Nation

By your messages, you are a progressive Democrat of the Democratic Party of war and death. I have no doubt if I posted a poll:

Should our military go to war against ______________________? not naming any region or country, you would vote yes. War and death is what the Democratic Party has always stood for, pursued and done.

 

[joko104]

Kurdish radicals in Syria are to Turkey what ISIS in Syria is to us. Turkey continues to suffer routine terrorist attacks, including by Kurdish insurgents who under our protection can safely operate out Syria and other regions we protect the Kurds in.

Warhawks will use the corporate MSM and press - since war is EXTREMELY profitable - to try to portray the Kurds as wonderful pacifist peasants just trying to live their lives in peace. But they are just another of one of so many factions trying to carve out their own country by war, rebellion and terror - while eliminating or running off all non-Kurds.

Turkey is not engaged in ethnic cleansing. Turkey is engaged in imprisoning and killing who they see as opposition. So are the Kurds. So does exactly every other country in the region and have done so for thousands of years. Other than Israel, Turkey is the most "liberal" country in that region, though that isn't saying much.

Claiming Turkey is engaged in ethnic cleansing is simply saying Turkey is one of the Muslim countries in that region of the world. Islam is the religion of total intolerance created by a empire building warlord - so that's what every faction and group wants to do and has pursued ever since. Prior? The same wars, rebellions and cleansing for other reasons going as far back as we know the history.

So, which ethnic cleansing group should Americans die in combat to protect and support? Which side should we be killing lots of people on behalf of? The Kurds? The Turks? One of the other dozen factions?

I say none. Get out. They have to work this out themselves however that happens. No matter what - us in or us out - lots and lots of people are going to die because in that region of the world they always do. Only it would be the USA also doing the killing and Americans also doing the dying.

 

[bongsaway]

^ A lazy and stupid TDS message attempting to derail the topic.

I don't think so. In my opinion putin is the hand behind us leaving the kurds to defend for themselves.

 

[joko104]

Believing we can EVER militarily force peace in the ME region is as realistic as believing you can forcibly make to male Beta Fighting Fish not fight when put in the same aquarium.

 

[joko104]

I don't think so. In my opinion putin is the hand behind us leaving the kurds to defend for themselves.

Obviously by your message you are a Putin loyalist wanting the USA to war against Turkey, our NATO ally against Russia. Simply, your message is absurd.

Who do you want us to defend next? ISIS by going to war against the our NATO ally the UK?

Please name all the NATO allies you want us to fight on behalf of Putin? All our NATO allies?

 

[bongsaway]

Obviously by your message you are a Putin loyalist wanting the USA to war against Turkey, our NATO ally against Russia. Simply, your message is absurd.

Who do you want us to defend next? ISIS by going to war against the our NATO ally the UK?

Please name all the NATO allies you want us to fight on behalf of Putin? All our NATO allies?

How about a realist, unlike you.

 

[Ikari]

Obviously by your message you are a Putin loyalist wanting the USA to war against Turkey, our NATO ally against Russia.

If Putin really wanted us to attack Turkey, Trump would have done it already.

 

[joko104]

Hell, if you research it the various Kurd factions are killing and ethnically cleansing each other.

THERE ACTUALLY IS NO singular "THE KURDS." There are various militaristic factions in the region, including various factions with members who are Kurds - who are fighting other factions who a Kurds. We literally are supply arms to some factions of Kurds to kill other factions of Kurds, not just to kill ISIS who wants to kill Kurds and who Kurds want to kill.

Fighting Turkey in Syria would be the newest and most extreme example of the military industrial complex of the super rich - and the gzillionaire money lenders who make the interest on the war debts forever (since we never pay off the debt) - of us both supplying weapons, troops, air support and fighting on behalf of some faction - and 100 miles away we are supplying weapons, troops, air support and fight on behalf of the other side to kill the faction we support.

This literally would be the USA fighting both for and against every faction in Syria at the same time. If this now standard practice continues, it's not long before we have the US Army fighting for one faction against the US Marines fighting for the other faction - as we provide air support to both the Army and Marines - while bombing them.

Having our troops fighting Turkey would truly be the theater of the absurd and prove Americans truly are the most gullible stupid people to ever exist.

 

[joko104]

To be fair, maybe we should give a number to every military personal we send to the region - for which all troops who have an even number fight on one side - and all the ones with an odd number fight on the other.

We could do the same for aircraft and ships. Any aircraft and ship with an even number fight for one side -and those with odd numbers fight for the other side.

To assure sufficient replacement rotation of materials and personnel, we would provide advanced missile systems to both sides. This would be particularly lucrative. It make easier logistics if we had an even number aircraft carrier beside an odd numbered one - so the aircraft from each could fly together to the battle zones and dogfight it out between them, as the crews of each ship cheer victories and moan defeats of their ship's fighters.

 

[joko104]

This is the warhawk policy as exists NOW and that they want to expand.

Marine Col. to a group of squad leaders going down the line.

"Your squad is assigned to the conservative Kurds. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting ISIS, Syrian military, Iranian fighters, radical Kurds and the Turks." Then continues down the line:

"Your squad is assigned to the radical Kurds. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting ISIS, Syrian military, Iranian fighters, conservative Kurds and the Turks."

"Your squad is assigned to ISIS. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting against the Syrian military, the Kurds, the Turks and Iranian fighters."

"Your squad is assigned to the Syrian military. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting against the Kurds, the Turks, ISIS and Iranian fighters."

"Your squad is assigned to the Iranian fighters. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting against the Kurds, ISIS, the Turks and Syrian fighters."

"Your squad is assigned to Turkey where you will be stationed. You are to fight and supply weapons for fighting against the Kurds rebels, ISIS, Iranian terrorists and Syrian fighters.

Your squad is assigned You to provide air base support for the aircraft that are take turns attacking and defending ISIS, the Turks, the Syrians, the conservative Kurds, the radical Kurds, and Iranian fighters - plus various factions in Yemen, Afghanistan, Iraq, and Turkey."

Then do the same with the US Army, Air Force and Navy. Or we could do it on an annual rotation. Each year, on New Year's Eve at midnight, all our military forces switches sides. And every other year add another faction we are both fighting for and against at the same time - doing this forever.

And most Americans buy it.

 

[joko104]

The USA does this crap. At the end of WW2, of unthinkable levels of death and destruction on a worldwide basis, the USA totally switched sides declaring Germany and Japan are our allies and our allies of Russia and China are our enemy as an example.

The control the military industrial complex, all the contracting corporations to the military, and all the banking interests - that make the endless and always more forever interest on the war debts that we pay interest on forever - totally controls the MSM/press/Internet (that they literally own), the US government and the majority of the American public.