Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACHA

[Perotista]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

what is happening to the ACA is exactly what should be expected of a new program based on unknown actuarials. Congress could fix it just like was done to social security, medicaid and medicare but republicans have been dick heads. What ails the Obamacare insurance exchanges? (It's not what you think.) - LA Times

I don't get why Democrats and those pro-ACA expects a Republican congress to fix it. I agree, there are growing pains in any government program, SS and Medicare are prime examples. The problem is in my opinion that SS and Medicare were basically bipartisan programs with both parties having a stake in their success and willing to fix any flaw that came up. The ACA was a lone or one party affair and most Americans were against it leading to what happened in November of 2010 to the Democrats. I posted this before, but take a look on how the votes in congress went for SS and Medicare vs. the ACA and the percentage of public approval for SS and Medicare vs the very low approval of the ACA.

Social Security votes in Congress – Over 65% of the American Public was in favor of Social Security before it was introduced to congress.
House - Democrats 284 AYE 15 NAY – Republicans 81 AYE 15 NAY
Senate – Democrats 60 AYE 1 NAY – Republicans 16 AYE 5 NAY

Medicare votes in Congress – Over 60% of the American Public was in favor of Medicare before it was introduced to congress.
House – Democrats 237 AYE 48 NAY – Republicans 70 AYE 68 NAY
Senate – Democrats 57 AYE 7 NAY – Republicans 13 AYE 17 NAY

Obamacare votes in Congress – Only 35% of the American Public was in favor of Obamacare and 58% against it before it was introduced to congress.
House – Democrats 220 AYE 36 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 179 NAY
Senate – Democrats 60 AYE 0 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 39 NAY

I think when one party goes it alone, it shouldn't expect the other party to fix the problems in a piece of legislation they went alone on. Besides, the Republicans knew that the majority of Americans were against the ACA and rode that sentiment to gain 63 seats and control of the house in 2010 and later control of the senate.

Having said all of that, the Republicans are making the same mistakes the Democrats did back in 2010 today. Going against the wishes and wants of the majority of Americans in repeal and replace along with going it alone. 2018 is likely to be another 2010 but in reverse. The only way to fix this isn't one or the other party to go it alone. One or the other party will always be 100% against it whether it was the ACA or the AHCA. They need to sit down together, discuss and iron out differences, compromise, come up with something both parties can support and if both parties have a stake in it, fix whatever flaws come up together.

If the Republicans are successful with the AHCA, do you expect the Democrats to fix any flaws that comes up with the AHCA since they, the Democrats were 100% against it. I don't.

 

[katzgar]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I don't get why Democrats and those pro-ACA expects a Republican congress to fix it. I agree, there are growing pains in any government program, SS and Medicare are prime examples. The problem is in my opinion that SS and Medicare were basically bipartisan programs with both parties having a stake in their success and willing to fix any flaw that came up. The ACA was a lone or one party affair and most Americans were against it leading to what happened in November of 2010 to the Democrats. I posted this before, but take a look on how the votes in congress went for SS and Medicare vs. the ACA and the percentage of public approval for SS and Medicare vs the very low approval of the ACA.

Social Security votes in Congress – Over 65% of the American Public was in favor of Social Security before it was introduced to congress.
House - Democrats 284 AYE 15 NAY – Republicans 81 AYE 15 NAY
Senate – Democrats 60 AYE 1 NAY – Republicans 16 AYE 5 NAY

Medicare votes in Congress – Over 60% of the American Public was in favor of Medicare before it was introduced to congress.
House – Democrats 237 AYE 48 NAY – Republicans 70 AYE 68 NAY
Senate – Democrats 57 AYE 7 NAY – Republicans 13 AYE 17 NAY

Obamacare votes in Congress – Only 35% of the American Public was in favor of Obamacare and 58% against it before it was introduced to congress.
House – Democrats 220 AYE 36 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 179 NAY
Senate – Democrats 60 AYE 0 NAY – Republicans 0 AYE 39 NAY

I think when one party goes it alone, it shouldn't expect the other party to fix the problems in a piece of legislation they went alone on. Besides, the Republicans knew that the majority of Americans were against the ACA and rode that sentiment to gain 63 seats and control of the house in 2010 and later control of the senate.

Having said all of that, the Republicans are making the same mistakes the Democrats did back in 2010 today. Going against the wishes and wants of the majority of Americans in repeal and replace along with going it alone. 2018 is likely to be another 2010 but in reverse. The only way to fix this isn't one or the other party to go it alone. One or the other party will always be 100% against it whether it was the ACA or the AHCA. They need to sit down together, discuss and iron out differences, compromise, come up with something both parties can support and if both parties have a stake in it, fix whatever flaws come up together.

If the Republicans are successful with the AHCA, do you expect the Democrats to fix any flaws that comes up with the AHCA since they, the Democrats were 100% against it. I don't.

should the democrats ever regain power and return to their traditional base in the ongoing class warfare I would expect them to expand coverage the current republican bill will deny.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I forgot to say that our health care system that is currently rated about 37th in the world, after Trumpcare will soon make us a third or fourth class country when it comes to health care.

Anyone who takes that 37th ranking seriously is totally lacking in objectivity and common sense.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

And all this to pay for tax cuts to the wealthy and corporations ...

That left wing class warfare tactic has not been working for the democrat party since at least 2010. Obamacare was only making the healthcare insurance companies wealthy at the expense of the middle class.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Have you ever been to a nursing home or had someone in a nursing home? If you had, you would know why you can't take care of them at home. With modern medicine older people live a lot longer than they did back when people took care of their own at home. Remember that people back when died a lot sooner. The problem is that though we live a lot longer, in our later years many people need a lot of care that you can no longer provide in a home setting. And today most families need two incomes to make ends meet. Can't do that if someone has to stay home.

Nice try. However my grandmother, who lived to be 97 and spent the last ten years of her life was able to cover it all through Medicare and Social Security. and that was a very decent and able nursing home. Perhaps you are confusing nursing homes with elaborate retirement homes.

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Actually the UK and France have higher rated health care sytems than the USA.

Depends on who is doing the rating. I have heard horror stories about the UK healthcare system.

 

[JasperL]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Nice try. However my grandmother, who lived to be 97 and spent the last ten years of her life was able to cover it all through Medicare and Social Security. and that was a very decent and able nursing home. Perhaps you are confusing nursing homes with elaborate retirement homes.

You're almost certainly wrong. Medicare does not cover nursing home care. That's Medicaid. And there is no chance Social security alone is sufficient to pay for nursing home care.

 

[Perotista]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

should the democrats ever regain power and return to their traditional base in the ongoing class warfare I would expect them to expand coverage the current republican bill will deny.

I expect the Democrats to retake the house next year mainly because of Trump and the AHCA which the majority of Americans oppose. I think you'll find the House Democrats if they do regain control next year having the same battle cry of repeal and replace of the AHCA. Partisan politics has conquered what is good for America as a whole. Neither party represents America, only themselves.

Personally, I hope the AHCA fails. I never liked the ACA either. But I think healthcare should be put on hold until next year. To see if all these dire predictions about all these insurance companies comes true or not. Then I think whoever is in charge appoint a committee equally divided between parties to assess and come up with ideas and solutions that both parties can support. Or that makes both parties extremely unhappy, but is a mix of what both want and will support to get healthcare fixed.

Going together like SS and Medicare can fix healthcare and what remains flawed and needs fixings, if both parties have a stake in it, it will get fixed. Going it alone only breeds disaster in the long run. I'm sure the Democrats when they pushed the ACA through in 2009 and 10 thought they could fix anything that is wrong with it in the future. That they never dreamed the ACA would cost them 63 house seats and no way to fix a thing. We need something that comes from both major parties or we need to send both major parties to the trash heap of history and come up with a different system other than the two party system we currently have. Look at what the two party system gave us last year, two candidates with negatives in the 60% range. Neither liked or wanted by the majority of Americans.

We have a broke system. I'm not sure it can be fixed with the polarization now in Washington and with each party hating the other and viewing the other party as the main, number one, the worst enemy to this country.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Intellectually honest people go with what the person obviously meant, and not what they wish the person had actually said so they could more honorably attack it.

This is hilarious. As another poster said, you've lowered the bar so far you're crushing yourself. How can sane people be that disingenuous?:shock:

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

This is hilarious. As another poster said, you've lowered the bar so far you're crushing yourself. How can sane people be that disingenuous?:shock:

I don't know. I have always wondered that about those who falsely accuse and blame and misquote and misrepresent those they oppose.

 

[Carjosse]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Depends on who is doing the rating. I have heard horror stories about the UK healthcare system.

And the US has no horror stories?

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I don't know. I have always wondered that about those who falsely accuse and blame and misquote and misrepresent those they oppose.

You can seemingly watch video of Trump and read tweets personally written by Trump and then proceed to freely reinterpret and/or change what he said.

"He didn't mean that."???

Really??? Something he said - promises he made - repeatedly, and "he didn't mean that"?

Too much!:roll:

 

[katzgar]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I expect the Democrats to retake the house next year mainly because of Trump and the AHCA which the majority of Americans oppose. I think you'll find the House Democrats if they do regain control next year having the same battle cry of repeal and replace of the AHCA. Partisan politics has conquered what is good for America as a whole. Neither party represents America, only themselves.

Personally, I hope the AHCA fails. I never liked the ACA either. But I think healthcare should be put on hold until next year. To see if all these dire predictions about all these insurance companies comes true or not. Then I think whoever is in charge appoint a committee equally divided between parties to assess and come up with ideas and solutions that both parties can support. Or that makes both parties extremely unhappy, but is a mix of what both want and will support to get healthcare fixed.

Going together like SS and Medicare can fix healthcare and what remains flawed and needs fixings, if both parties have a stake in it, it will get fixed. Going it alone only breeds disaster in the long run. I'm sure the Democrats when they pushed the ACA through in 2009 and 10 thought they could fix anything that is wrong with it in the future. That they never dreamed the ACA would cost them 63 house seats and no way to fix a thing. We need something that comes from both major parties or we need to send both major parties to the trash heap of history and come up with a different system other than the two party system we currently have. Look at what the two party system gave us last year, two candidates with negatives in the 60% range. Neither liked or wanted by the majority of Americans.

We have a broke system. I'm not sure it can be fixed with the polarization now in Washington and with each party hating the other and viewing the other party as the main, number one, the worst enemy to this country.

The problem with the ACA and the ahca has always been the Actuarial the people with pre-existing conditions and sick and people that have never seen a doctor before are a huge part of what was insured under the ACA so costs are very high

 

[Perotista]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

The problem with the ACA and the ahca has always been the Actuarial the people with pre-existing conditions and sick and people that have never seen a doctor before are a huge part of what was insured under the ACA so costs are very high

Perhaps that is the main reason why so many insurance companies are pulling out of the ACA. That and coverage up to the age of 26. Until the ACA most coverage for kids was up to 18 or you could expand that to 21 if they were living under the same roof. Of course there was always a cost. What the ACA did was eliminate a very healthy pool of 19-26 year olds which would have balanced the pre-existing conditions with the new healthy pool. My take anyway for what's it worth.

One also can't expect health insurance companies to take a loss every year to remain in the ACA. That would drive them out of business and you still wouldn't have insurance companies to participate in the ACA exchanges.

 

[katzgar]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Perhaps that is the main reason why so many insurance companies are pulling out of the ACA. That and coverage up to the age of 26. Until the ACA most coverage for kids was up to 18 or you could expand that to 21 if they were living under the same roof. Of course there was always a cost. What the ACA did was eliminate a very healthy pool of 19-26 year olds which would have balanced the pre-existing conditions with the new healthy pool. My take anyway for what's it worth.

One also can't expect health insurance companies to take a loss every year to remain in the ACA. That would drive them out of business and you still wouldn't have insurance companies to participate in the ACA exchanges.

one could also argue that the exclusion of people with preexisting conditions kept premiums artificially low.

 

[AlbqOwl]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

You can seemingly watch video of Trump and read tweets personally written by Trump and then proceed to freely reinterpret and/or change what he said.

"He didn't mean that."???

Really??? Something he said - promises he made - repeatedly, and "he didn't mean that"?

Too much!:roll:

No, it is honest to understand what people mean, and not so much by the words they use to say it. Dishonest people judge people how they want them to be and not by who they actually are.

 

[Greenbeard]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

No, it is honest to understand what people mean, and not so much by the words they use to say it. Dishonest people judge people how they want them to be and not by who they actually are.

So how many millions of people was he actually promising to kick off their health insurance when he said everybody would have insurance?

Right now it looks like Trump will be throwing about 20-25 million off their coverage. Is that what he meant? Because that's certainly not what I got from his words.

 

[Perotista]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

one could also argue that the exclusion of people with preexisting conditions kept premiums artificially low.

Agreed to a certain extent. Probably not keeping premiums artificially low, but keeping them out of the market. Which in turn enable the premiums to be much lower. Pretty much the same isn't it?

 

[LetsGoBrandon]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

And the US has no horror stories?

Yes. Obamacare is quite the horror story.

 

[katzgar]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

Yes. Obamacare is quite the horror story.

nope, your post is a lie

 

[Puigb]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

At least we try to be honest about what he says.

no, the thing is, you aren't. His supporters are just as dishonest as their political messiah.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

No, it is honest to understand what people mean, and not so much by the words they use to say it. Dishonest people judge people how they want them to be and not by who they actually are.

It's perfectly honest to judge a person by his/her actions, especially if those actions are repeated numerous times.

That's what we're doing. Looking at Trump's actions and comparing them to Trump's words (which have proven worthless).

Trump lied, repeatedly. You can make excuses and claim his actions were necessary. You can say he really meant the opposite of what he said. None of that changes the reality or consequences of his real world actions.

I honestly thought I'd never see anything eclipse the left's (mostly former) FDR worship and the right's making a God of Reagan, but Trumpism has indeed gone farther, and in far less time.

Congrats, I guess.:roll:

 

[Unitedwestand13]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

I expect the Democrats to retake the house next year mainly because of Trump and the AHCA which the majority of Americans oppose. I think you'll find the House Democrats if they do regain control next year having the same battle cry of repeal and replace of the AHCA. Partisan politics has conquered what is good for America as a whole. Neither party represents America, only themselves.

Personally, I hope the AHCA fails. I never liked the ACA either. But I think healthcare should be put on hold until next year. To see if all these dire predictions about all these insurance companies comes true or not. Then I think whoever is in charge appoint a committee equally divided between parties to assess and come up with ideas and solutions that both parties can support. Or that makes both parties extremely unhappy, but is a mix of what both want and will support to get healthcare fixed.

Going together like SS and Medicare can fix healthcare and what remains flawed and needs fixings, if both parties have a stake in it, it will get fixed. Going it alone only breeds disaster in the long run. I'm sure the Democrats when they pushed the ACA through in 2009 and 10 thought they could fix anything that is wrong with it in the future. That they never dreamed the ACA would cost them 63 house seats and no way to fix a thing. We need something that comes from both major parties or we need to send both major parties to the trash heap of history and come up with a different system other than the two party system we currently have. Look at what the two party system gave us last year, two candidates with negatives in the 60% range. Neither liked or wanted by the majority of Americans.

We have a broke system. I'm not sure it can be fixed with the polarization now in Washington and with each party hating the other and viewing the other party as the main, number one, the worst enemy to this country.

What if the sad reality is that partisan politics, in various forms, has been a feature not a bug of america's political system?

 

[Perotista]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

What if the sad reality is that partisan politics, in various forms, has been a feature not a bug of america's political system?

To a more or lesser extent ideology has. Now I'm an old fart who was born right after WWII ended. Back in those days each party had its conservative wing and liberal wing. The Democrats had the conservative south and the Republicans the liberal Northeast. Remember the Rockefeller Republicans. Also the Republican brand of conservatism back then was a me too, only less than what the Democrats wanted.

What is forgotten is the Democrats were the war hawk party, the Republicans isolationist. More or less. Back then partisanship and ideological battles were more regional than party wise. You never seen a straight party line vote. Of course back then the Democrats were the big tent party where everyone was welcomed. Not just extreme liberals or progressive nowadays. There were more of representing the people in your district or if a Senator, the people within your state than a political party. Today, there is very little representing the people of your district or state, it is all about political party.

If you went back to the 40's, 50,s 60's, you would find approximately 80% of Americans identified themselves with one or the other major parties while independents were at around 20%. Today independents make up 40% and in some polls above 40% of the electorate. As one party drifted left, the other right, they have left those in the middle, center right, center left or center without a political home or a political party to identify with.

Those that deserted the two major parties were the more moderate factions leaving just the hard core left. That is one reason we have the polarization in Washington today in my opinion. This is why we get a Trump vs. Clinton when only the die hard's of each party wanted them and almost no one else. Yet in a two party system, one or the other had to win even if 60% of all Americans didn't want one or the other to become the next president. That is a failed system.

Gallup recently put party affiliation as 25% of the electorate identify themselves as Republicans, 28% as democrats, 44% as independents. Go back to when both parties had their conservative and liberal wings, Eisenhower for example 48% Democrat, 31% Republican. JFK 51% Democrat, 28% Republican. LBJ, 50% Democrat, 25% Republican. It wasn't until Jimmy Carter Independents broke the 30% plateau. They broke 40% under Obama. The biggest, largest group is now independents.

Whether representing 80% of the electorate like they did in past, the two major parties now represent 53% of the electorate, yet they have as much power, more power than when they were representing 80% of the electorate. A failed system.

 

[Fenton Lum]

Re: Do you want to know the real number of people to lose their health care under ACH

What if the sad reality is that partisan politics, in various forms, has been a feature not a bug of america's political system?

It IS a feature, and it is a leveraged feature. Public opinion is totally divorced from policy. Without concentrated wealth and a stable of lawyers and lobbyists, you have no representation. None.