Do you believe in demons? [W: 312]

[BillRM]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

One big difference...the serial killer did not create you...he did not give you life in the first place...if you continue to look at it from the imperfect human's POV instead of attempting to see it from a perfect Almighty God's POV , then you will never get it...it's called "thinking outside your own small, little world'...

So if he happen to be your father that would give him the right to kill you?

 

[Daisy]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

So if he happen to be your father that would give him the right to kill you?

Is he God? No...merely another human...only God gives life, only He has the right to take life...that is why under the Mosaic Law it was 'eye for eye, tooth for tooth, life for life'....no human has the right to take life...if he does, he has to give life...that is the perfect law...

 

[Daisy]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

Let get back to the subject of demons.

When the catholic church was torturing thousands to deaths by torture the claim for the torture was that it was an attempt to save their immortal souls even at the cost of their lives.

To the degree that Demons exist it seems to be a direct outgrow of religious beliefs that result in otherwise perfectly norm humans to act as demons.

Or could it be that certain humans take God's Word and distort it to do injustice to other humans...

 

[blarg]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

One big difference...the serial killer did not create you...he did not give you life in the first place...if you continue to look at it from the imperfect human's POV instead of attempting to see it from a perfect Almighty God's POV , then you will never get it...it's called "thinking outside your own small, little world'...

why would Creating you make this any less an act of revolting evil?

its your own version of selfishness

you just want to believe that every one who wont do as you do will die while you live forever



its hard to find a more revolting world view more dangerous ones are easy to come by sure but not more evil ones

 

[blarg]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

Or could it be that certain humans take God's Word and distort it to do injustice to other humans...

well using what you say is a gods word in order to justify injustice is something you have proven humans can do

 

[BillRM]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

Or could it be that certain humans take God's Word and distort it to do injustice to other humans...

God words in the bible is kind of plain IE killed them either directly or by using his human agents.

All in all a very very evil god indeed.

For amusement do a search for the word kill on an electronic version of the bible and enjoy reading the results.

There are indeed demons but only in human form who are firmly convict either by themselves or by others that this make up god wish them to kill or torture others for some reason or other.

 

[BillRM]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

Here is one example out of many of true believers acting as demons following the commands of their 'god'.

Nantucket mother Dora Tejada who 'murdered daughter because God told her to' is found NOT guilty | Daily Mail Online


A Nantucket woman who killed her three-year-old daughter because she thought the girl was possessed by the devil was found not criminally responsible because of mental illness.

Dora Tejada, 28, was found not guilty by a judge today in Nantucket Superior Court and instead committed to a state mental health institution for six months of observation and treatment.

She will be re-evaluated after that to determine whether she should stay in custody or be released with conditions.

Tejada, a housecleaner originally from El Salvador, suffocated three-year-old Nicole Garcia inside their home in March 2011, authorities said.

Suffering bipolar: Dora Tejada (pictured at court) all concluded that her extreme bipolar disorder and psychosis left her unable to understand her actions
Suffering bipolar: Dora Tejada (pictured at court) all concluded that her extreme bipolar disorder and psychosis left her unable to understand her actions

Tejada told investigators God told her to push a rose in the girl's throat to exorcise the devil.

Tejada also shoved her fist down the girl's throat, police said. A medical examiner determined that the cause of death was homicidal asphyxia.


Three forensic psychologists hired by the defense, prosecution and the court to evaluate Tejada all concluded that her extreme bipolar disorder and psychosis left her unable to understand her actions and conform her behavior to the law on the day she killed her daughter, the Cape Cod Times reported.

 

[holbritter]

From time to time surfing the web I come across some really troubling stories of heinous acts that human beings have engaged in against other human beings. Often they bring me to tears. And today was one such day where a man was convicted of sexually abusing an infant.

The number of heinous acts committed by some seem to be growing and often they are against our most vulnerable. You can call it mental illness if you like but the level of such heinous acts leads me to believe some people are possessed.

What say you?

That kind of heinous act is why I question if there is a God. It's hard to wrap your head around an "all seeing, all powerful" God letting something like that happen.

 

[RAMOSS]

That kind of heinous act is why I question if there is a God. It's hard to wrap your head around an "all seeing, all powerful" God letting something like that happen.

The standard response of 'Free Will' just does not seem to be adequate at times.

 

[Alfons]

Demons are real.
They were detailed described in the Holy Bible, 'Demonic' by Ann Coulter and 'Demons' by Dostoevsky.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

So we can turn the bible into anything we want can't we.

No. That's what you skeptics do when you first fail to do your proper due-diligence on the creation accounts.

Strong’s 3117 "day" – yowm (yom)

d. days, lifetime (pl.)

e. time, period (general)

{search-query} - Interlinear Bible Search

In my personal Strong’s Concordance, on page 48 of the definitions, it also has “or fig. (figuratively) a space of time defined by an associated term” (and context).

You apparently didn't dig deeper into context, etc. You have to understand the meaning of the Hebrew word for day (yom). It can mean an indefinite period of time, even eons.

Genesis 2:4 literally reads, "in the day (yom) of the Lord God making (made) the earth and heavens."

The author of Genesis, who reportedly wrote of the 'days' of creation, describes those 'days' as one day, or one time period. It's the same Hebrew word. The implication is clear - Moses' “day” (yom) in Genesis 2:4 refers not to a 24-hour day but, rather, to a much longer period of time—in this case, the entire span of creation events.

So you can't automatically assume the Hebrew "day" (yom) is a 24 hour period.

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

No. That's what you skeptics do when you first fail to do your proper due-diligence on the creation accounts.

Strong’s 3117 "day" – yowm (yom)

d. days, lifetime (pl.)

e. time, period (general)

{search-query} - Interlinear Bible Search

In my personal Strong’s Concordance, on page 48 of the definitions, it also has “or fig. (figuratively) a space of time defined by an associated term” (and context).

You apparently didn't dig deeper into context, etc. You have to understand the meaning of the Hebrew word for day (yom). It can mean an indefinite period of time, even eons.

Genesis 2:4 literally reads, "in the day (yom) of the Lord God making (made) the earth and heavens."

The author of Genesis, who reportedly wrote of the 'days' of creation, describes those 'days' as one day, or one time period. It's the same Hebrew word. The implication is clear - Moses' “day” (yom) in Genesis 2:4 refers not to a 24-hour day but, rather, to a much longer period of time—in this case, the entire span of creation events.

So you can't automatically assume the Hebrew "day" (yom) is a 24 hour period.

Let's look at chapter 1, where the term YOM is used also when it comes to the act of God's creation. In Geneises 1.5, there are these words

1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

Each of the six days of creation in Genesis 1 all have the pattern 'and the evening and the morning were the xxx day'. THis context indicats a single day, not an 'unknown length' of time.

So, if you read the bible in context.. when it comes to the act of creation, the context in Genesis 1 indicates that it is a literal day, rather than the vague undetermined amount of time.

 

[Logicman]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

Let's look at chapter 1, where the term YOM is used also when it comes to the act of God's creation. In Geneises 1.5, there are these words

Each of the six days of creation in Genesis 1 all have the pattern 'and the evening and the morning were the xxx day'. THis context indicats a single day, not an 'unknown length' of time.

So, if you read the bible in context.. when it comes to the act of creation, the context in Genesis 1 indicates that it is a literal day, rather than the vague undetermined amount of time.

You wish.

First, you ignored Genesis 2:4, which literally reads, "in the day (yom) of the Lord God making (made) the earth and heavens."

The author of Genesis, who reportedly wrote of the 'days' of creation, describes those 'days' as one day, or one time period. It's the same Hebrew word. The implication is clear - Moses' “day” (yom) in Genesis 2:4 refers not to a 24-hour day but, rather, to a much longer period of time—in this case, the entire span of creation events.

Second, "Evening and morning" is an idiomatic expression in Semitic languages. Like all idioms, its meaning is nonliteral but clearly understood by native speakers. The phrase "evening and morning" can, like yom, denote a long and indefinite period. The Old Testament itself unambiguously uses the "evening and morning" phrase in just such a way. In Daniel 8 we read the account of Daniel's ram and goat vision and the interpretation given by Gabriel. The vision covers many years; some commentators believe the time has not yet been completed. Daniel 8:26 says, "The vision of the evenings and the mornings that have been given to you is true, but seal up the vision for it concerns the distant future" (RSV). In Hebrew manuscripts, "the evenings and mornings," is not in the plural but in the singular, identical to the expression we find in Genesis 1. Translated literally, the verse reads, "And the vision of the evening and the morning that has been given you" Here we have a clear indication from scriptural usage that this phrase does not demand a 24-hour-day interpretation and can refer to an indefinite epoch. (Godandscience.org)

 

[RAMOSS]

Re: Do you believe in demons?

You wish.

First, you ignored Genesis 2:4, which literally reads, "in the day (yom) of the Lord God making (made) the earth and heavens."

The author of Genesis, who reportedly wrote of the 'days' of creation, describes those 'days' as one day, or one time period. It's the same Hebrew word. The implication is clear - Moses' “day” (yom) in Genesis 2:4 refers not to a 24-hour day but, rather, to a much longer period of time—in this case, the entire span of creation events.

Second, "Evening and morning" is an idiomatic expression in Semitic languages. Like all idioms, its meaning is nonliteral but clearly understood by native speakers. The phrase "evening and morning" can, like yom, denote a long and indefinite period. The Old Testament itself unambiguously uses the "evening and morning" phrase in just such a way. In Daniel 8 we read the account of Daniel's ram and goat vision and the interpretation given by Gabriel. The vision covers many years; some commentators believe the time has not yet been completed. Daniel 8:26 says, "The vision of the evenings and the mornings that have been given to you is true, but seal up the vision for it concerns the distant future" (RSV). In Hebrew manuscripts, "the evenings and mornings," is not in the plural but in the singular, identical to the expression we find in Genesis 1. Translated literally, the verse reads, "And the vision of the evening and the morning that has been given you" Here we have a clear indication from scriptural usage that this phrase does not demand a 24-hour-day interpretation and can refer to an indefinite epoch. (Godandscience.org)

Both are talking about the days of creation... And yes, the 'morning and evening' are singular''. as in the 'first day' (evening and morning), 'second day', etc etc.

Genesis 2 specifically talks about the day of man's creation... which in Genesis 1, was specificed to be the singular 'evening and morning'.. 1 day... and in the context of how that was written, it was specified to be one actual day.

 

[Daisy]

The point is the word "day" is used in a figurative sense, not only in the Bible but also in language, in the general sense...it represents a time period figuratively, as well as a 24 hour period in the literal sense...

In the flexible, figurative sense...“the day of God’s creating Adam” Gen. 5:1...“the day of Jehovah” Zep. 1:7... the “day of fury” Zep 1:15)...“the day of salvation” 2 Cor 6:2...“the day of judgment” 2 Pet. 3:7...“the great day of God the Almighty” Rev. 16:14)...these are not literal 24 hour time periods but distinct periods of time for certain events, as with all the creative days are...

Man’s situation does not compare with that of the Creator, who does not reside within our solar system and who is not affected by its various cycles and orbits...of God, who is from time indefinite to time indefinite...for man, a 1,000-year period represents some 365,242 individual time units of day and night, but to the Creator it can be just one unbroken time period in which he begins the carrying out of some purposeful activity and brings it on to its successful conclusion, much as a man begins a task in the morning and concludes it by the day’s end...

 

[RAMOSS]

The point is the word "day" is used in a figurative sense, not only in the Bible but also in language, in the general sense...it represents a time period figuratively, as well as a 24 hour period in the literal sense...

In the flexible, figurative sense...“the day of God’s creating Adam” Gen. 5:1...“the day of Jehovah” Zep. 1:7... the “day of fury” Zep 1:15)...“the day of salvation” 2 Cor 6:2...“the day of judgment” 2 Pet. 3:7...“the great day of God the Almighty” Rev. 16:14)...these are not literal 24 hour time periods but distinct periods of time for certain events, as with all the creative days are...

Man’s situation does not compare with that of the Creator, who does not reside within our solar system and who is not affected by its various cycles and orbits...of God, who is from time indefinite to time indefinite...for man, a 1,000-year period represents some 365,242 individual time units of day and night, but to the Creator it can be just one unbroken time period in which he begins the carrying out of some purposeful activity and brings it on to its successful conclusion, much as a man begins a task in the morning and concludes it by the day’s end...

That is why you have to look at context. In many cases, that would be correct. However, Genesis 1 specifically narrows down the context of the 'days of creation'. It, also can be taken allegorically. Genesis 2 expands on what happened on the specific days of creation , particularly when it comes to the creation of man. However, if you read it in the original hebrew, there is a strong sense of 'this is literature'. For example adam.. or in some cases, he is called 'ha-adam' is 'man, or 'the man'. Adam is related to the word 'red earth', which is also related to the word 'blood'. So the name 'Adam' 'or 'The man' is a pun, because man is made out of 'earth (red earth), and blood. That indicates an allegory. There is plenty of word play that shows a deeper meaning.. because of the puns that do not translate out of Hebrew.
There is a whole different set of puns based on the word "Eve" , which also means 'life'. and 'love'. These puns do not translate well into greek/latin or English.. so the sense of 'this is a story with a deeper meaning' is lost.

 

[Daisy]

Yes, so taken in context, a creative day is a period of time, not a 24 hour day...

 

[RAMOSS]

Yes, so taken in context, a creative day is a period of time, not a 24 hour day...

The context si 'it was evening and it was morning' as in Genesis.. which is a 24 hour day.

 

[Daisy]

The context si 'it was evening and it was morning' as in Genesis.. which is a 24 hour day.

So what about the 7th day? Genesis does not mention the 7th day having an ending, meaning we are still within God's time period of "rest day" some 6,000 years later, indicating that this period, during which God has been resting from his creative works toward the earth, has continued on...at Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that God’s rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began...this makes it evident that each creative day, or work period, was at least thousands of years in length...as "A Religious Encyclopædia" Vol. I, p. 613 says...“The days of creation were creative days, stages in the process, but not days of twenty-four hours each.”

 

[RAMOSS]

So what about the 7th day? Genesis does not mention the 7th day having an ending, meaning we are still within God's time period of "rest day" some 6,000 years later, indicating that this period, during which God has been resting from his creative works toward the earth, has continued on...at Hebrews 4:1-10 the apostle Paul indicated that God’s rest day was still continuing in his generation, and that was more than 4,000 years after that seventh-day rest period began...this makes it evident that each creative day, or work period, was at least thousands of years in length...as "A Religious Encyclopædia" Vol. I, p. 613 says...“The days of creation were creative days, stages in the process, but not days of twenty-four hours each.”

It would take a stretch, and it would take a strong change of context. The Jewish perspective and interpretation it's still a 24 hour period, since the sabbath was not made for God, it was made for man, and a day for man is 24 hours. However, it is entirely possible not to take Genesis literally, but look at the deeper meanings in it.

 

[Logicman]

It would take a stretch, and it would take a strong change of context. The Jewish perspective and interpretation it's still a 24 hour period, since the sabbath was not made for God, it was made for man, and a day for man is 24 hours. However, it is entirely possible not to take Genesis literally, but look at the deeper meanings in it.

Well don't miss God creating it all. It's not "Mother Earth," it's Father God!

 

[RAMOSS]

Well don't miss God creating it all. It's not "Mother Earth," it's Father God!

When it comes to the Hebrew, the term for God when God is creation, which is quite often translated as 'holy spiriti' is feminine in origin. God has both masculine and feminine attributes. "God created man in his image, male and female, he created them"

 

[Logicman]

When it comes to the Hebrew, the term for God when God is creation, which is quite often translated as 'holy spiriti' is feminine in origin. God has both masculine and feminine attributes. "God created man in his image, male and female, he created them"

Helping Ramoss understand:

"Linguistically, it is clear that masculine theistic terminology dominates the Scriptures. Throughout both testaments, references to God use masculine pronouns. Specific names for God (e.g., Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, Kurios, Theos, etc.) are all in the masculine gender. God is never given a feminine name, or referred to using feminine pronouns. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit" (ruach) is feminine in Genesis 1:2. But the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew has nothing to do with gender identity."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html

 

[RAMOSS]

Helping Ramoss understand:

"Linguistically, it is clear that masculine theistic terminology dominates the Scriptures. Throughout both testaments, references to God use masculine pronouns. Specific names for God (e.g., Yahweh, Elohim, Adonai, Kurios, Theos, etc.) are all in the masculine gender. God is never given a feminine name, or referred to using feminine pronouns. The Holy Spirit is referred to in the masculine throughout the New Testament, although the word for "spirit" by itself (pneuma) is actually gender-neutral. The Hebrew word for "spirit" (ruach) is feminine in Genesis 1:2. But the gender of a word in Greek or Hebrew has nothing to do with gender identity."

https://www.gotquestions.org/Holy-Spirit-gender.html

Well, the term 'Holy spirit' is masculine in Greek and Latin. However, it is feminine in Hebrew and the Jewish scriptures. That is the difference that a change in language makes. From my perspective, how it is used in Greek or Latin is irrelevant.

One of the Orthodox depictions of God is represented by 'The Shekhina'. This is God in the feminine form.. and it is part of Jewish Mysticism. The symbol of the Shen is the symbol that represent the Shekhina. It looks like a W, and when the Orthodox use the Shekhina in their services, the hand gesture they used actually was adopted by Star Trek (Lenard Ninmoy was drawing from his childhood) as the Vulcan salute in 'Live long and Prosper'.

So, we have the Christian version of the holy spirit, and then we have the Jewish one.. which, although it uses the same term, is entirely different, since it is not part of a trilogy, but merely god doing godly stuff that tends to be the act of creation, and shows God's feminine attributes. Gotquestions might answer things from a Christian perspective, but they are not conversant with the Jewish concepts.

 

[Logicman]

Well, the term 'Holy spirit' is masculine in Greek and Latin. However, it is feminine in Hebrew and the Jewish scriptures. That is the difference that a change in language makes. From my perspective, how it is used in Greek or Latin is irrelevant.

One of the Orthodox depictions of God is represented by 'The Shekhina'. This is God in the feminine form.. and it is part of Jewish Mysticism. The symbol of the Shen is the symbol that represent the Shekhina. It looks like a W, and when the Orthodox use the Shekhina in their services, the hand gesture they used actually was adopted by Star Trek (Lenard Ninmoy was drawing from his childhood) as the Vulcan salute in 'Live long and Prosper'.

So, we have the Christian version of the holy spirit, and then we have the Jewish one.. which, although it uses the same term, is entirely different, since it is not part of a trilogy, but merely god doing godly stuff that tends to be the act of creation, and shows God's feminine attributes. Gotquestions might answer things from a Christian perspective, but they are not conversant with the Jewish concepts.

Nope. God is depicted with wings in the 91st Psalm too, so in your mind he must be a giant bird.

Get a new dog, Ramoss.