Do pro gun people have some responsibility to fix the mass shooting problem?

[vegas giants]

No. I can't. I never felt the need or stood to benefit from claiming a lie to tread on others benefits. Others have. Maybe, that would be a good question more appropriately asked of someone else( i.e. Elisabeth Warren) who has.
Regards,
CP

Well that's what he said. Its hilarious

 

[BahamaBob]

BB, I am so very sorry. I did not intend to attack you in any way. I meant to address the simp(to avoid censure from the moderators, let me say it was Someone very closely aligned with VG's level) who wrote HAHAHA. As you correctly point out, that was an unintended error. I apologize for my gross mistake.
Regards,
CP

No problem, I was not very clear in my statement. I take no offense.

 

[marke]

What is a white women of color?

Rich bitch Pocahantos Warren.

 

[vegas giants]

Rich bitch Pocahantos Warren.

Insult noted and dismissed

 

[concernedpuma]

Insult noted and dismissed

Unless you are Pocahontas or Elizabeth Warren, how can you dismiss even an insult against either? Though, the note regarding Elizabeth Warren wasn't an insult, it is true. Want to elect her?

Regards,
CP

 

[danielpalos]

Unless you are Pocahontas or Elizabeth Warren, how can you dismiss even an insult against either? Though, the note regarding Elizabeth Warren wasn't an insult, it is true. Want to elect her?

Regards,
CP

Can our good doctor convince us she is serious about getting, doctrinal with our federal doctrine?

 

[Tryingtogetit]

I'm sorry I think I miss led some of you in my sarcasm. I dont believe we have a gun problem. I THINK WE HAVE A LIBERAL PROBLEM. People today get offended, feel bullied, show not just normal emotion but fake emotion and people pamper them, if you dont your the insensitive one. This along with the drug company's hell even our government pushing drugs, along with the fact all they are told is there victims one way or another..think about it, your from a home with little supervision, you watch tv and ever outlet weather news or movie tells you you are being done wrong, that your a victim and to resist, these same people are lighting there towns on fire, bulling anyone who disagrees and some who could care less, they see and hear the police do nothing, and they hear do what ever it takes no limit as the outcome is worth it. So they go to school get bullied again and try repeating what they heard or saw. They get bullied worse then life is to much with all the brainwashing and drugs and bullying along with hormones and you have seen others mass kill so you do it....
People I really believe this is not a gun problem. Its mental health issues, that alot of people have being toyed with by people who know what there doing for amusement. Proof of this is by looking at our leaders who are not stupid and for the most part till 3 years ago tried not to sound stupid. Now there saying things they dont mean that contridect the common scince they used to have. Look at some of the things said and done by them. It's insane. People need to be told there is no excuses no ones holding you down remind america most of us never felt with racial issues , let them know people can be mean but they can be ignored and that they are not always right and no one cares how they feel about that. Either present facts to try and prove it or shrug it off or what I recommend listen maybe learn something new.

No I dont believe we have a gun problem

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

 

[danielpalos]

I'm sorry I think I miss led some of you in my sarcasm. I dont believe we have a gun problem. I THINK WE HAVE A LIBERAL PROBLEM. People today get offended, feel bullied, show not just normal emotion but fake emotion and people pamper them, if you dont your the insensitive one. This along with the drug company's hell even our government pushing drugs, along with the fact all they are told is there victims one way or another..think about it, your from a home with little supervision, you watch tv and ever outlet weather news or movie tells you you are being done wrong, that your a victim and to resist, these same people are lighting there towns on fire, bulling anyone who disagrees and some who could care less, they see and hear the police do nothing, and they hear do what ever it takes no limit as the outcome is worth it. So they go to school get bullied again and try repeating what they heard or saw. They get bullied worse then life is to much with all the brainwashing and drugs and bullying along with hormones and you have seen others mass kill so you do it....
People I really believe this is not a gun problem. Its mental health issues, that alot of people have being toyed with by people who know what there doing for amusement. Proof of this is by looking at our leaders who are not stupid and for the most part till 3 years ago tried not to sound stupid. Now there saying things they dont mean that contridect the common scince they used to have. Look at some of the things said and done by them. It's insane. People need to be told there is no excuses no ones holding you down remind america most of us never felt with racial issues , let them know people can be mean but they can be ignored and that they are not always right and no one cares how they feel about that. Either present facts to try and prove it or shrug it off or what I recommend listen maybe learn something new.

No I dont believe we have a gun problem

Sent from my SM-N950U1 using Tapatalk

Socialism is about social-ism and Government as a result.

We have a Second Amendment and should have no security problems in our free States.

Don't grab guns, grab gun lovers and regulate them well.

 

[Slartibartfast]

From a moral perspective, no

From a practical perspective, it would be a good idea. Right now, a lot of the youth wants nothing to do with guns, having grown up in this sort environment with the shootings. They will eventually vote and choose elected officials, who will then choose judges. Those judges won't have the same view of the second amendment that prevails right now. In that respect, pro-gun people are shooting themselves in the foot.

 

[Marine Electric]

Just like a thief will pass a locked car looking for an unlocked one. Or if you see the club etc. These mentally ill nut-jobs are smart enough not to go where they will get mowed down on the spot. It will REDUCE deaths of school kids

-VySky

More guns = more guns deaths. This a fact -- facts can't be ignored or debated.

That said, every kid in America is more than 100 times more likely to be killed in a car accident than by a mass shooter. So, it can easily be argued that our priorities are skewed, at best -- and misappropriated at worst. Does that mean we should do nothing about mass shootings? Of course not.

But what can we do that will not amount to mere lip service -- what can really make a difference?

I've thought about it a lot but I don't have an answer that will work other than the Australian solution of confiscation - but I don't want to give up my guns. And there is no possibility of that happening in America anyway.

So, what are we supposed to do?

 

[Casper]

More guns = more guns deaths. This a fact -- facts can't be ignored or debated.

That said, every kid in America is more than 100 times more likely to be killed in a car accident than by a mass shooter. So, it can easily be argued that our priorities are skewed, at best -- and misappropriated at worst. Does that mean we should do nothing about mass shootings? Of course not.

But what can we do that will not amount to mere lip service -- what can really make a difference?

I've thought about it a lot but I don't have an answer that will work other than the Australian solution of confiscation - but I don't want to give up my guns. And there is no possibility of that happening in America anyway.

So, what are we supposed to do?

Step one is to make soft targets such as schools and malls into hard targets. That step is easy.
Step two is to start dealing with the mental health issue that has been ignored and swept under the rug for far too long. That will not be easy and will take the help of society.
Those will help with mass shootings and hopefully suicides.
As for the majority of criminal gun violence we need tougher laws on dealing with gang members and other violent criminals along with programs to assist people from turning to a life of crime. Not easy but doable over the long haul if we are willing to expend the effort and spend some money

 

[BahamaBob]

More guns = more guns deaths. This a fact -- facts can't be ignored or debated.




Your statement is totally incorrect and not a fact. Below are two lists. One is the countries with the highest murder rate. The second is the countries with the most guns. No country is on both lists Totally disproving your fact.

Rank Country Homicide Rate (Per 100,000 Inhabitants)
1 Honduras 90.4
2 Venezuela (Bolivarian Republic of) 53.7
3 United States Virgin Islands 52.6
4 Belize 44.7
5 El Salvador 41.2
6 Guatemala 39.9
7 Jamaica 39.3
8 Lesotho 38
9 Swaziland 33.8
10 Saint Kitts and Nevis 33.6
11 South Africa 31
12 Colombia 30.8
13 Bahamas 29.8
14 Democratic Republic of the Congo 28.3
15 Trinidad and Tobago 28.3

Country Firearms Rate Estimate of Total Firearms Population 2019
United States 120.5 393,347,000 329,064,917
India 5.3 71,101,000 1,366,417,754
China 3.6 49,735,000 1,433,783,686
Pakistan 22.3 43,917,000 216,565,318
Russia 12.3 17,620,000 145,872,256
Brazil 8.3 17,510,000 211,049,527
Mexico 12.9 16,809,000 127,575,529
Germany 19.6 15,822,000 83,517,045
Yemen 52.8 14,859,000 29,161,922
Turkey 16.5 13,249,000 83,429,615
France 19.6 12,732,000 65,129,728
Canada 34.7 12,708,000 37,411,047
Thailand 15.1 10,342,000 69,625,582
Italy 14.4 8,609,000 60,550,075
Iraq 19.6 7,588,000 39,309,783

 

[concernedpuma]

From a moral perspective, no

From a practical perspective, it would be a good idea. Right now, a lot of the youth wants nothing to do with guns, having grown up in this sort environment with the shootings. They will eventually vote and choose elected officials, who will then choose judges. Those judges won't have the same view of the second amendment that prevails right now. In that respect, pro-gun people are shooting themselves in the foot.

Summarizing what I read, since most young people want nothing to with guns, and since many of the terrible assaults have been carried out by the young; your suspect list of likely perp's ought be pretty short. Who are they? Go grab 'em up and get off the grind against responsible gun owners.
You know that many of the lethal assaults in Europe have been by vehicle, right? What now?
Regards,
CP

 

[Slartibartfast]

Summarizing what I read, since most young people want nothing to with guns, and since many of the terrible assaults have been carried out by the young; your suspect list of likely perp's ought be pretty short. Who are they? Go grab 'em up and get off the grind against responsible gun owners.
You know that many of the lethal assaults in Europe have been by vehicle, right? What now?
Regards,
CP

I am not sure what you are trying to say, can you please rephrase?

 

[aociswundumho]

More guns = more guns deaths. This a fact -- facts can't be ignored or debated.

 

[Slartibartfast]

Summarizing what I read, since most young people want nothing to with guns, and since many of the terrible assaults have been carried out by the young; your suspect list of likely perp's ought be pretty short. Who are they? Go grab 'em up and get off the grind against responsible gun owners.
You know that many of the lethal assaults in Europe have been by vehicle, right? What now?
Regards,
CP

for the record. I like guns. My current favorite is the Bursa Thunder .380.

my liberal side says:
We need to demystify them. I grew up in a VERY CONSERVATIVE area (deep south Georgia) and so, as a result, I have a lot of exposure to conservative culture and (I believe) have some insight into conservative culture and ideals (I try to listen to everyone). This has lead me to believe that the way forward, if you don't want judges elected who take a dim view of 2a, then there needs to be an inclusive, not exclusive culture.

Right now, gun culture is intwined with the idea of self sufficiency, but from a conservative idea of what self sufficiency is (insight: liberals believe in self sufficiency, but not in a way most conservatives would understand or would be wiling to accept, but no less potent). The love of guns would have to become decoupled with that ideal, which, I am not sure conservatives would be willing to accept culturally since it would go against their mythology and would potentially have some side affect confronting other truisms within that culture. I am not hopeful here.

This may be an issue that has to die to be reborn, which it will since nobody is amending the constitution any time soon.

 

[concernedpuma]

I am not sure what you are trying to say, can you please rephrase?

Sorry TA. I was addressing the meat of your post as below-

From a practical perspective, it would be a good idea. Right now, a lot of the youth wants nothing to do with guns, having grown up in this sort environment with the shootings. T

From there, I attempted to point out that the rejection of a single means of killing is not the cure. If all guns were to disappear today, tomorrow you would see of mass killings by other means. It has to do with Human beings and the twisted individuals from among us. It is our DNA, not guns, that cause mass killings.

Regards,
CP

 

[Slartibartfast]

Sorry TA. I was addressing the meat of your post as below-

From a practical perspective, it would be a good idea. Right now, a lot of the youth wants nothing to do with guns, having grown up in this sort environment with the shootings. T

From there, I attempted to point out that the rejection of a single means of killing is not the cure. If all guns were to disappear today, tomorrow you would see of mass killings by other means. It has to do with Human beings and the twisted individuals from among us. It is our DNA, not guns, that cause mass killings.

Regards,
CP

I agree, violence is an element of human nature.

I think the real debate is in the use of guns. There is a thread of "I have my AR and I will defend myself if the military goes berzerk and after my family". Which, at least for me, is understandable (I share the same fantasy as most men do). I think the question that people are not willing to consider is "what is the balance between public safety and the need for people to feel autonomous and sovereign", or at least this is the nature of the public debate.

I will admit, I do not know the answer, but whatever it ends up being (since, historically, cultures do eventually arrive at answers), it will be something creative and perhaps not something we are thinking of today.

In the mean time, I think it is reasonable to continue to explore what we can do to minimize public violence and that kind of harm and to continue to try to find some sort of middle ground.

The real question is "what can most people agree to, even if it sucks in some ways"

 

[concernedpuma]

Just to note: I enjoyed reading your post. We may or may not agree, but you have solid representation of your views. Thank You for the post!

Regards,
CP

 

[Slartibartfast]

Just to note: I enjoyed reading your post. We may or may not agree, but you have solid representation of your views. Thank You for the post!

Regards,
CP

Thank you. I try to be honest with myself and my relationship to society.

On my better days, I might even be.

 

[Marine Electric]

View attachment 67265524

:Oopsie

 

[BahamaBob]

:Oopsie

OOPS is right. Most of the states plus District of Columbia with the most guns per capita are no where on your chart. Including the 1,2,4,5,6, and 7 states. In addition, gun death statistics mean nothing unless you remove suicides.

Wyoming: 195.7 firearms per 1,000 people.
District of Columbia: 66.4 firearms per 1,000 people.
Arkansas: 41.6 firearms per 1,000 people.
New Mexico: 40.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Virginia: 30.1 firearms per 1,000 people.
Idaho: 24.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alabama: 20 firearms per 1,000 people.
Nevada: 19.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alaska: 15.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Louisiana: 15.1 firearms per 1,000 people.

 

[Marine Electric]

OOPS is right. Most of the states plus District of Columbia with the most guns per capita are no where on your chart. Including the 1,2,4,5,6, and 7 states. In addition, gun death statistics mean nothing unless you remove suicides.

Wyoming: 195.7 firearms per 1,000 people.
District of Columbia: 66.4 firearms per 1,000 people.
Arkansas: 41.6 firearms per 1,000 people.
New Mexico: 40.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Virginia: 30.1 firearms per 1,000 people.
Idaho: 24.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alabama: 20 firearms per 1,000 people.
Nevada: 19.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alaska: 15.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Louisiana: 15.1 firearms per 1,000 people.

Listen, they are certainly exceptions but both scientifically and rationally speaking, more guns = more gun deaths. Crime in general in the US has been on a downward trend over the past 30 years and that's a good thing. It's easy to conflate that downward trend with any cause you want to insert. It's just as legitimate to claim it's directly correlated with the consumption of chocolate cupcakes. Similarly, the more guns = more crime deaths fact should not be used as a game-stopper either -- it's like saying there are less deadly car crashes in regions where there are no cars. Um, yeah, duh.

You shouldn't make the assumption either that I am some sort of anti-gun nut. I am an avid, lifelong collector and own nearly 100 hand/long guns, including "AR's." I have more training and have fired more rounds that 99.5 percent of the US population, so that likely includes you. But like I said before, it is a non-debatable fact that more guns = more gun deaths -- and there I stand.

As for a solution to the troubling rate of gun violence we experience in America, I have NO solution and whole-heatedly disagree with most of the legislation that has been passed in an attempt to quell that number. But I'm open to new ideas and ardently refuse to participate in the loopy talking points issued by the NRA and other moonbat "pro-2A" people."

:thumbs:

 

[TurtleDude]

OOPS is right. Most of the states plus District of Columbia with the most guns per capita are no where on your chart. Including the 1,2,4,5,6, and 7 states. In addition, gun death statistics mean nothing unless you remove suicides.

Wyoming: 195.7 firearms per 1,000 people.
District of Columbia: 66.4 firearms per 1,000 people.
Arkansas: 41.6 firearms per 1,000 people.
New Mexico: 40.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Virginia: 30.1 firearms per 1,000 people.
Idaho: 24.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alabama: 20 firearms per 1,000 people.
Nevada: 19.5 firearms per 1,000 people.
Alaska: 15.2 firearms per 1,000 people.
Louisiana: 15.1 firearms per 1,000 people.

anti gun groups include suicide: due to demographics, red states tend to have higher rates of suicide-gun laws have no real relevance to that.

 

[TurtleDude]

Listen, they are certainly exceptions but both scientifically and rationally speaking, more guns = more gun deaths. Crime in general in the US has been on a downward trend over the past 30 years and that's a good thing. It's easy to conflate that downward trend with any cause you want to insert. It's just as legitimate to claim it's directly correlated with the consumption of chocolate cupcakes. Similarly, the more guns = more crime deaths fact should not be used as a game-stopper either -- it's like saying there are less deadly car crashes in regions where there are no cars. Um, yeah, duh.

You shouldn't make the assumption either that I am some sort of anti-gun nut. I am an avid, lifelong collector and own nearly 100 hand/long guns, including "AR's." I have more training and have fired more rounds that 99.5 percent of the US population, so that likely includes you. But like I said before, it is a non-debatable fact that more guns = more gun deaths -- and there I stand.

As for a solution to the troubling rate of gun violence we experience in America, I have NO solution and whole-heatedly disagree with most of the legislation that has been passed in an attempt to quell that number. But I'm open to new ideas and ardently refuse to participate in the loopy talking points issued by the NRA and other moonbat "pro-2A" people."

:thumbs:

I suspect I have far more experience than you-assuming you weren't on the US shooting team, nor a sponsored professional shooter but I will accept your claims of massive experience and the guns you own. How do you own AR 15s in NYC? My brother lives in NYC, my college girlfriend and her husband (and he was in my wedding so we are very close) live in NYC, and many of the people I went to college with live in NYC and I'd bet at least half my law school class either lives or has lived in NYC so I think I have a decent handle on the gun laws there