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Dems set Trump trap? Source says FISA rebuttal memo loaded with sensitive details

It actually is supported and there is tons of evidence. Apparently, you missed the fact that they used the political opposition's own unfounded papers as a valid document for spying on an American. Further, their extreme partisan beliefs and actions where demonstrated, very clearly, in the texts.

I'm really not interested in your opinions or recycled Fox New talking points. If you have evidence the FBI included "intentionally dishonest documents" link it.

I know you can't, you know you can't. And as I explained elsewhere, "extreme partisan bias" =/= proof that the person with bias was intentionally dishonest, or else roughly 100% of warrants would be thrown out given the investigators/cops "extreme partisan bias" against criminals, spies, murderers, terrorists, etc.
 
So, nothing in other words. "Democrats are bad, so, therefore, Carter Page's civil rights were violated." Not very compelling as an argument.

I'm not going to rehash everything that has come out over the past few months for you. You post here, so I know you're paying attention to such things, which only leaves me with you not being an honest broker in the exchange of conversation, so I'm not going to waste my time if you can't admit there is a whole lot more out there than "Democrats are bad."
 
Using an unreliable witness, and using unverified information generated from that individual, is not something that would go unpunished in civil court, if found out.

Well, the problem is Steele worked for British intelligence for a career and retired honorably from that. He also had a record of being a reliable witness with the FBI on past cases as a private investigator/consultant, which is consistent with his decades long career. He's also an expert in Russia, with extensive contacts in Russia, which lends him more credibility on his dossier, which centered on his specialty. So you're asserting facts you're pulling out of your rear end.

And if you know the legal standard for what can be included in a FISA warrant, cite it and identify the laws or standards violated by the FBI. What you're suggesting is if the FBI gets a tip from the roommate of a guy and the tip is he's constructing IEDs in his bedroom, that the FBI has to verify that allegation before getting a warrant to break the doors down or at least monitor his communications. I do not believe that's the standard.

In this case, you don't know how the FBI used the Steele information in the warrant application, so it's quite impossible for you to demonstrate that they used it in a way that violates law or even procedure. Four different FISC judges believed the evidence was sufficient, as did a series of people at DoJ and FBI including Trump appointees, and two of the renewals were after the issue became an incredibly volatile political situation.

So I'm wondering where else you're OK with this. Can I find a neighbor that hates you and use him as a witness to you acting suspiciously and get a warrant on you and go through all your stuff, you house, your finances, your entire history?

Of course something LIKE that happens routinely in this country. Warrants don't require proof of a crime, or else the warrant isn't needed. Often warrants are issued and the cops don't find what they expect to find. I'm sure national security warrants are also issued frequently and the target turns out to be innocent. There is no inherent problem with those events.

In the case of Page, we know that the dossier and the Yahoo article were only part of the evidence cited in the warrant application, so if the "neighbor" who is a retired cop who was in the drug dealing unit makes a bunch of allegations, which he sources to discussions with other neighbors and his observations of comings and goings at my house, and I've got a history (like Page did) of being a drug dealer (i.e. for this example compromised by Russian intelligence), and the warrant gets information from other people confirming the suspicions of that retired cop, then, yeah, I can probably look forward to a visit from the police or having my records searched, my phone tapped, etc..
 
I'm not going to rehash everything that has come out over the past few months for you. You post here, so I know you're paying attention to such things, which only leaves me with you not being an honest broker in the exchange of conversation, so I'm not going to waste my time if you can't admit there is a whole lot more out there than "Democrats are bad."

OK, I'm not sure why you participate if you're not willing to engage with dissenting opinions. As you know my post had several substantive points you can't address, so you choose to avoid doing what you can't do.

And I'm being an honest broker by backing my views up with links to the evidence, which is something you've failed to do on any of your posts. That's really the core of what I'm asking here - if you make allegations, back them up with EVIDENCE so we can evaluate it ourselves.
 
You evidently don't understand that the republican memo was given to the FBI as well.
They made changes to it because democrats spent 2 days complaining about it.

You should use better news sources or stop reading liberal biased ones.

I understand that the republican memo was delivered to the white house, and then given to the FBI before release.
The Democratic memo was given to the FBI for redaction, and then given to the White House.

There is a difference. I guess my news sources can see that.
 
Well, the problem is Steele worked for British intelligence for a career and retired honorably from that. He also had a record of being a reliable witness with the FBI on past cases as a private investigator/consultant, which is consistent with his decades long career. He's also an expert in Russia, with extensive contacts in Russia, which lends him more credibility on his dossier, which centered on his specialty. So you're asserting facts you're pulling out of your rear end.

Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that this "honorable" and "reliable" agent with a "decades long career" told a US Justice official that he was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president? .....and that he was paid by Democrat backers to the tune of $160,000 for the "golden shower" dossier?

Might that be useful information that the FISA judge would consider in issuing the warrant?
 
Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that this "honorable" and "reliable" agent with a "decades long career" told a US Justice official that he was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president? .....and that he was paid by Democrat backers to the tune of $160,000 for the "golden shower" dossier?

Might that be useful information that the FISA judge would consider in issuing the warrant?

What date did Steele say that
 
Clinton was a terrible candidate, to be sure, (well, she was experienced in politics and skilled in being a politician, but in many ways those were disqualifications).

But the email investigation helped prevent her from winning, along with a bunch of other factors.

I do find it interesting that many (I think willingly blind) democrats place undue blame on one or more of those other factors, and attack anyone (even other liberals) who say Clinton being a bad candidate was a major cause of her loss.

The hildabeast had many things going against her, however most of them were self inflicted. Yes, she was an experienced and in some ways skilled politician, however she does not have the ability to connect with voters that her spouse Slick Willy did. The email investigation did not tank her. The email scandal itself tanked her. She was stupid enough to send and recieve classifed government emails on a private unsecured server. I know that most die hard partisan democrats thought she was in the clear after Comey's phony exoneration, however not everyone accepted that exoneration. And scandal was fresh on everyone's mind all the way through election night. Getting a reminder roughly a week before the election did not change enough minds to make a difference. It was not as if the voters had forgotten that the email scandal existed.
 
Because the Republicans admitted that there was a footnote on the application mentioning the dossier's political origin.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/05/fbi-footnote-carter-page-warrant-390795

You apparently missed that. It was the crux of Nunes' entire argument, and it blew up on him.

Nobody cares about Hillary Clinton anymore. Except you Trump devotees who can't seem to get over the fact that she lost.

I am still celebrating Broom Hilda's defeat.
 
How is it a flop? That's just nuts.

The memo showed that the FBI and Hillary conspired with a foreign agent to create a dossier, then presented it as FBI evidence to obtain a surveillance warrant to spy on Hillary's political opponent. That's conspiracy, collusion, and obstruction all wrapped into one.

A flop?

If it were the Trump campaign doing the same thing, the left would be screaming bloody murder.
 
The hildabeast had many things going against her, however most of them were self inflicted. Yes, she was an experienced and in some ways skilled politician, however she does not have the ability to connect with voters that her spouse Slick Willy did. The email investigation did not tank her. The email scandal itself tanked her. She was stupid enough to send and recieve classifed government emails on a private unsecured server. I know that most die hard partisan democrats thought she was in the clear after Comey's phony exoneration, however not everyone accepted that exoneration. And scandal was fresh on everyone's mind all the way through election night. Getting a reminder roughly a week before the election did not change enough minds to make a difference. It was not as if the voters had forgotten that the email scandal existed.
I think you could take a half-dozen or so reasons and say "it tipped the election enough that she lost".

But IMO, it shouldn't have even been close - with the statements Trump made about various things, and the tactics he used, a good candidate should have been able to beat him handily.

She had too much history of being disliked, and an inability to communicate with voters in a way that would change their minds. Not to mention being an outstanding example of the establishment.
In my opinion, that is THE main reason she lost. Because of what she represented and how she was seen.
 
Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that this "honorable" and "reliable" agent with a "decades long career" told a US Justice official that he was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president? .....and that he was paid by Democrat backers to the tune of $160,000 for the "golden shower" dossier?

Might that be useful information that the FISA judge would consider in issuing the warrant?

I'll ask an alternative. Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that an "honorable" person who despised terrorists and wanted them all dead and had spent 20 years in anti-terrorism, putting bulls eye on the backs of countless POS terrorists investigated a terrorist ring and had uncovered U.S. citizens funding their efforts?

The answer is HELL NO!! So why would it matter here? When is a person ratting on someone else an ally, versus someone who wants that target taken down by FBI? I'd say roughly 100% of the time it is the latter.

And does it occur to you that someone who spent significant parts of his career fighting against Soviets and then Russians might be "passionate" about disclosing information that the possible next President of the F'ing United States of America, the most powerful country on earth, might be compromised and subject to manipulation by those same Russians? Yeah, that's a shocker, right? I mean, why would someone like that CARE at all about what he discovered?
 
Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that this "honorable" and "reliable" agent with a "decades long career" told a US Justice official that he was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president? .....and that he was paid by Democrat backers to the tune of $160,000 for the "golden shower" dossier?

Might that be useful information that the FISA judge would consider in issuing the warrant?

No and no
 
I'll help you out. He said it after the information was uncovered. His comment was on the basis of the alarming information he uncovered.

It was "salacious and unverified" information...a characterization of the dossier the FISA judge did not have.....information Steele was paid $160,000 to obtain...again...information the FISA judge did not have....don't you think the judge should be made aware of this in order to issue a warrant to spy on an American citizen working on a presidential campaign?
 
I'll ask an alternative. Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that an "honorable" person who despised terrorists and wanted them all dead and had spent 20 years in anti-terrorism, putting bulls eye on the backs of countless POS terrorists investigated a terrorist ring and had uncovered U.S. citizens funding their efforts?

The answer is HELL NO!! So why would it matter here? When is a person ratting on someone else an ally, versus someone who wants that target taken down by FBI? I'd say roughly 100% of the time it is the latter.

And does it occur to you that someone who spent significant parts of his career fighting against Soviets and then Russians might be "passionate" about disclosing information that the possible next President of the F'ing United States of America, the most powerful country on earth, might be compromised and subject to manipulation by those same Russians? Yeah, that's a shocker, right? I mean, why would someone like that CARE at all about what he discovered?

I'll see your orange and raise you an apple.....terrorism is not politics.....terrorism is not about who the next President will be.....If your "imaginary"terror fighter used "salacious and unverified" information to obtain a warrant to kill terrorists....that would be illegal....and your "imaginary" terror fighter will no longer be "honorable".

Oh...and that "compromising information" your "passionate Russian hater" used was characterized as "salacious and unverified" by the Head of the FBI....information he was paid $160K for as opposition research for the Democrat Party.
 
I think you could take a half-dozen or so reasons and say "it tipped the election enough that she lost".

But IMO, it shouldn't have even been close - with the statements Trump made about various things, and the tactics he used, a good candidate should have been able to beat him handily.

She had too much history of being disliked, and an inability to communicate with voters in a way that would change their minds. Not to mention being an outstanding example of the establishment.
In my opinion, that is THE main reason she lost. Because of what she represented and how she was seen.
I think the biggest of those half dozen or so reasons were self inflicted. She blew off the party's base in the rust belt states (blue firewall states) with statements like: "And yes we will put alot of coal miners out of business." And her statement declaring half of Trump's supporters as deplorables led to a surge of Trump voters who were otherwise on the fence in regards to showing up to vote. As for the "It should not have been close" aspect, if it were any other presidential election previous to 2016, I would agree. Trump would not have made it past the GOP field much less the hildabeast. 2016 was different. Trump tapped into a populist movement that the establishment in both parties ignored. And if they underestimate Trump and the movement again in 2020, they will do so at their own peril.

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I'll see your orange and raise you an apple.....terrorism is not politics.....terrorism is not about who the next President will be.....If your "imaginary"terror fighter used "salacious and unverified" information to obtain a warrant to kill terrorists....that would be illegal....and your "imaginary" terror fighter will no longer be "honorable".

Oh...and that "compromising information" your "passionate Russian hater" used was characterized as "salacious and unverified" by the Head of the FBI....information he was paid $160K for as opposition research for the Democrat Party.

OK, so you moved the goal posts. I'm shocked!

I've address the rest elsewhere many times so won't bother again, except to say the "salacious and unverified" is shamefully out of context. I'm a bit amazed how easily right wingers are swayed by propaganda. If you don't believe me, look up the quote in context. Might not help, but if the propaganda didn't instruct you to believe Comey was referring to the "dossier" no one would.
 
OK, so you moved the goal posts. I'm shocked!

Well, I left the goalposts where they were...then you came up with the imaginary Russia hating terrorist killer......a goalpost move if ever I have seen one.

I've address the rest elsewhere many times so won't bother again, except to say the "salacious and unverified" is shamefully out of context.

No matter what information is in the report....when you keep the "golden showers" in the report right along side with everything else....you have tainted the report as "salacious and unverified".....unless you believe that it happened. If you don't believed it happened, then you are just cherry picking whatever you want to believe with whatever remains....
 
How is it a flop? That's just nuts.

The memo showed that the FBI and Hillary conspired with a foreign agent to create a dossier, then presented it as FBI evidence to obtain a surveillance warrant to spy on Hillary's political opponent. That's conspiracy, collusion, and obstruction all wrapped into one.

A flop?

This is why I come here,, you can not find humor this great even on the comedy channel.

Thank you so very much for the belly laughs!!!
 
Would it matter to the judge issuing the warrant that this "honorable" and "reliable" agent with a "decades long career" told a US Justice official that he was desperate that Donald Trump not get elected and was passionate about him not being president? .....and that he was paid by Democrat backers to the tune of $160,000 for the "golden shower" dossier?

Might that be useful information that the FISA judge would consider in issuing the warrant?

Sure when he adds that the reason he desperately did not want trump to be president is that his investigation proved that trump and many on his staff are traitors and have been involved with the Russian mafia. For decades and are completely controlled by Putin.

So my guess is that's what all the judges and the other dozens of people who had to see this information for the case to progress heard.
 
It was "salacious and unverified" information...a characterization of the dossier the FISA judge did not have.....information Steele was paid $160,000 to obtain...again...information the FISA judge did not have....don't you think the judge should be made aware of this in order to issue a warrant to spy on an American citizen working on a presidential campaign?

Well, no, the original judge in October 2016 wouldn't have information about an out of context quote made in June 2017 about a part of the dossier directly involving Trump and irrelevant to the warrant on Page. Obviously, the judge probably didn't care about the "dossier" as a whole, but about the very narrow parts of the "dossier" directly related to the warrant on Carter Page who at the time of the warrant was NOT in fact working on Trump's campaign. So, excellent point!!

As to how the warrant characterized the corroboration of the allegations related to Carter Page, citation needed. Thanks.
 
Sure when he adds that the reason he desperately did not want trump to be president is that his investigation proved that trump and many on his staff are traitors and have been involved with the Russian mafia. For decades and are completely controlled by Putin.

So my guess is that's what all the judges and the other dozens of people who had to see this information for the case to progress heard.

Good point. The focus is on the people who signed the warrant request, then the warrant itself, but many people at multiple levels, including staff attorneys at the FISC, also signed off before it got to Comey et al., then to the judges, four of them. So, yeah, dozens of people were allegedly involved in this corrupt plot against Trump.... Or they were doing their job, which is my own view, and fits the facts pretty well.
 
There is no such thing as god and there is no such thing as "fox news"..
Both are as about as real as the easter bunny or sasquatch.
I bet you thought there would be no such thing as Hillary Von Pantsuit losing the 2016 election as well. [emoji38]

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