Democracy is a terrible idea, illustrated.

[Lisa]

Democracy is a terrible idea.

Allow me to illustrate.

Say you are traveling for the holidays, and you get on a plane to fly across the country at 35,000 feet.

Things are going well on democracy airlines, but an hour into the flight there’s a problem, and so you hear an announcement on the PA “ladies and gentlemen this is your constitutional president speaking, we have lost control of our engines and the flight attendants will be bringing you ballots to vote on the best solution”

Obviously this is insane, most people on the plane have no idea how to manage anything as complex as a commercial airliner.

So your safety when on the plane is basically an absolute dictatorship of the Captain. The captain is an educated professional who is granted full power over your life and death by a legitimate authority.

Likewise. For the complex business of running state affairs, the legitimate Authority (God through the Church) should be sanctioning one professional King to govern society. Most voters have no appreciation for complex issues and are too short-sighted to their own wants.

Most Americans are not sufficiently educated to understand how the government works. That is the problem that must be addressed.

We also currently have a government and likewise, the media that is controlled by monied special interests and that is also being ignored.

A constitutional democacy might not be perfect but it is far preferable to your idea of a plutocracy, monarchy or a theocracy.

 

[Lisa]

Being the current office holder in a succession of legitimate Monarchs.

The fact that the monarch might be legitimate doesn't mean that they are either a effective or rational leader.

Why are you so eager to relinquish your current rights to a monarch?

 

[EMNofSeattle]

A huge portion of the people Franco murdered were AFTER the civil war ended. But then again, you think even questioning hereditary dictators should be a crime, so why should be surprised you're an apologist for murder?

And that was wrong, but at that point what choice was there?

If I were just a Spanish peasant who wished to live my life in peace, farming my little plot and going to mass every day, who was a bigger threat to me and my life? Franco? Or the people he killed? Be honest here

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The fact that the monarch might be legitimate doesn't mean that they are either a effective or rational leader.

Why are you so eager to relinquish your current rights to a monarch?

The only rights I care about are property and religion.

Monarchy strengthens both.

Democracy eliminates both.

 

[Questerr]

And that was wrong, but at that point what choice was there?

If I were just a Spanish peasant who wished to live my life in peace, farming my little plot and going to mass every day, who was a bigger threat to me and my life? Franco? Or the people he killed? Be honest here

And if I were a Spanish farmer who wanted freedom instead of living under a brutal dictator, Franco would justified in having me murdered?

 

[Questerr]

The only rights I care about are property and religion.

Monarchy strengthens both.

Democracy eliminates both.

Monarchy destroys religious freedom and the rights of religious people.

Monarchy destroys property rights for anyone who isn't noble.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

And if I were a Spanish farmer who wanted freedom instead of living under a brutal dictator, Franco would justified in having me murdered?

Well except the Spanish republicans did not bring “freedom” they were controlled by socialist factions. And rural peasantry largely supported Franco

If you kept your head down nothing would happen. If you were a leftist agitator demanding sweeping social change be brought to me whether I wanted it or not you might find yourself arrested.

Do I agree with that? Well I don’t want to, but I am not aware of any leftist movement in history predicated on leaving people alone to make their own decisions, there’s always a utopia that must be brought by force.

I would rather live under a dictatorship of a Franco then under any kind of socialist government.

 

[Questerr]

Well except the Spanish republicans did not bring “freedom” they were controlled by socialist factions. And rural peasantry largely supported Franco

You didn't answer my question. Franco didn't bring freedom. He brought repression and murder, but after his death the conversion of Spain into a Constitutional Monarchy with democratic elections did bring freedom.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Monarchy destroys religious freedom and the rights of religious people.

Monarchy destroys property rights for anyone who isn't noble.

In some sense that is true of monarchies, but in another it’s not. Historically most monarchies favored the majority religion, but democracy favors none and as we see now your religious liberties only exist to the left if the LGBTQ movement approves of them.

In earlier leftist states the religious were just wholesale executed, think revolutionary France, USSR, Mexico under Calles, etc.

Most monarchical societies actually widely respected property rights

 

[EMNofSeattle]

You didn't answer my question. Franco didn't bring freedom. He brought repression and murder, but after his death the conversion of Spain into a Constitutional Monarchy with democratic elections did bring freedom.

Ok, so The Result of Franco was a constitutional monarchy with better rule of law. so Spain was much better off for Franco then under the Popular Front who if they won would’ve established a Soviet Client state, almost none of the Stalinist communist states in the world from Vietnam to Cuba have become functioning constitutional states. So your own argument fails

Spain was never going to instantly become a constitutional state after the abolition of the monarchy through becoming a communist one.

It seems you’re only upset the repression and murder wasn’t conducted by your preferred faction

 

[Questerr]

Ok, so The Result of Franco was a constitutional monarchy with better rule of law. so Spain was much better off for Franco then under the Popular Front who if they won would’ve established a Soviet Client state, almost none of the Stalinist communist states in the world from Vietnam to Cuba have become functioning constitutional states. So your own argument fails

Spain was never going to instantly become a constitutional state after the abolition of the monarchy through becoming a communist one.

It seems you’re only upset the repression and murder wasn’t conducted by your preferred faction

And if you had your way, Spain would be an absolutist monarchy with any dissenters being criminalized.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

And if you had your way, Spain would be an absolutist monarchy with any dissenters being criminalized.

I didn’t say the criminalize dissent, I said questioning the institution of the monarchy itself should be illegal.

I also think certainly Revolutionary ideologies should be proscribed and censored. Like for example, some hate crimes might be prevented if White Nationalism were a proscribed ideology(which I think it should be because it’s contrary to God) and the secret police could monitor them.

I don’t think speech on political issues should be suppressed

 

[Questerr]

I didn’t say the criminalize dissent, I said questioning the institution of the monarchy itself should be illegal.

I also think certainly Revolutionary ideologies should be proscribed and censored. Like for example, some hate crimes might be prevented if White Nationalism were a proscribed ideology(which I think it should be because it’s contrary to God) and the secret police could monitor them.

I don’t think speech on political issues should be suppressed

That's criminalizing dissent. Any dissenter who objects to being ruled over by an absolute monarch, you want to see criminalized.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

That's criminalizing dissent. Any dissenter who objects to being ruled over by an absolute monarch, you want to see criminalized.

Some dissent is like sedition.

If you joined a group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US government you can be arrested for sedition and that would be constitutional

 

[Questerr]

Some dissent is like sedition.

If you joined a group dedicated to the violent overthrow of the US government you can be arrested for sedition and that would be constitutional

Ah, so now you are deflecting to violent overthrow. If you wanted to convert an absolute monarchy into a democracy by protesting and refusing to cooperate with the government's demand's through peaceful civil disobedience, you'd still be opposing the institution of monarchy and in your freedom-hating world, such advocates should be criminals.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Ah, so now you are deflecting to violent overthrow. If you wanted to convert an absolute monarchy into a democracy by protesting and refusing to cooperate with the government's demand's through peaceful civil disobedience, you'd still be opposing the institution of monarchy and in your freedom-hating world, such advocates should be criminals.

That’s never happened in history. All overthrowing of monarchs have involved violence or the threat of it

 

[Questerr]

That’s never happened in history. All overthrowing of monarchs have involved violence or the threat of it

Usually after the monarch initiated force against those who wanted to remove him from office. But you of course think those people should have just laid down and died rather than fighting back.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Usually after the monarch initiated force against those who wanted to remove him from office. But you of course think those people should have just laid down and died rather than fighting back.

See now you’re deflecting.

The American revolutionaries were not threatened by political repression from King George. They didn’t want to pay taxes to cover a war fought on their behalf.

See you don’t actually support freedom either. You support your own political philosophy which you call “freedom”

As I’ve said, if I had the option of moving to a theocratic catholic state I would. Why can’t I? Because of international leftist movements like the ones you support eliminating all those types of countries. is that freedom?


But see even now I’m not revolutionary. This is not my preferred system but I am loyal to the United States and consider it legitimate because I’m commanded to. But anti monarchical movements are violent ones based on rejection of the system as a whole

 

[Questerr]

See now you’re deflecting.

The American revolutionaries were not threatened by political repression from King George. They didn’t want to pay taxes to cover a war fought on their behalf.

See you don’t actually support freedom either. You support your own political philosophy which you call “freedom”

As I’ve said, if I had the option of moving to a theocratic catholic state I would. Why can’t I? Because of international leftist movements like the ones you support eliminating all those types of countries. is that freedom?

The American revolutionaries were denied representation and were imposed upon by the dictates of someone they had no power in choosing.

How does having freedom force anything on you? You can be as Catholic and repressed in your personal life as you want. You just want to force that on other people.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Democracy is a terrible idea.

Allow me to illustrate.

Say you are traveling for the holidays, and you get on a plane to fly across the country at 35,000 feet.

Things are going well on democracy airlines, but an hour into the flight there’s a problem, and so you hear an announcement on the PA “ladies and gentlemen this is your constitutional president speaking, we have lost control of our engines and the flight attendants will be bringing you ballots to vote on the best solution”

Obviously this is insane, most people on the plane have no idea how to manage anything as complex as a commercial airliner.

So your safety when on the plane is basically an absolute dictatorship of the Captain. The captain is an educated professional who is granted full power over your life and death by a legitimate authority.

Likewise. For the complex business of running state affairs, the legitimate Authority (God through the Church) should be sanctioning one professional King to govern society. Most voters have no appreciation for complex issues and are too short sighted to their own wants.

So you hate liberty and individual freedoms and want a nation of serfs.

Not surprising, really.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The American revolutionaries were denied representation and were imposed upon by the dictates of someone they had no power in choosing.

How does having freedom force anything on you? You can be as Catholic and repressed in your personal life as you want. You just want to force that on other people.

No, I want to live where everyone agrees with me and no force is needed except against those who voluntarily wish to tear us down.

Except now the left want to close down churches and religious schools and indoctrinate children into believing porn and masturbation are healthy and living sexually promiscuous lives is “liberating” and that drug and alcohol abuse is normal.

So in fact it’s not me forcing any views on anyone. It’s your team forcing them on me.

 

[Questerr]

No, I want to live where everyone agrees with me and no force is needed except against those who voluntarily wish to tear us down.

Except now the left want to close down churches and religious schools and indoctrinate children into believing porn and masturbation are healthy and living sexually promiscuous lives is “liberating” and that drug and alcohol abuse is normal.

So in fact it’s not me forcing any views on anyone. It’s your team forcing them on me.

And you want everyone agreeing with you to be enforced at the point of a dictator's gun. Exactly how many churches have been shut down in America? You are 100% free to homeschool your children and teach them whatever you want about porn, masturbation, and sex, but why should your sexually-repressed views be forced on all parents? You are free to not do any drugs or drink. But you want to force your personal preferences on other people, again at the point of a dictator's gun.

Yes, you are the one who supports forcing your views on others.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So you hate liberty and individual freedoms and want a nation of serfs.

Not surprising, really.

From the point of view of the serfs life was not that bad. Serfs and peasants have never typically been sources of revolution. It’s upper middle class professionals and industrial workers who make rebellion

 

[Questerr]

From the point of view of the serfs life was not that bad. Serfs and peasants have never typically been sources of revolution. It’s upper middle class professionals and industrial workers who make rebellion

Not bad so long as you don't care about things like living about a subsistence level and having protected rights and freedoms.

I get it though, you are too weak to handle freedom and need a dictator to control every moment of your life or else you'd fall apart. Good things most humans don't share your weakness.

 

[Craig234]

Isn't it funny how the cult thinks trump proves a king is the way to go, and the sane rest of the country think trump proves how wrong and dangerous a king would be?