Deficits are exploding – and neither party seems to care

[Conservative]

Payroll taxes only cover Part A. Hospital services. We need income taxes to pay for the rest--e.g., physician services, prescription drugs, etc. Always have. I thought we were in agreement that ought not be raising taxes to save Boomers from the shortsightedness of their own fiscal philosophies! Now I'm not sure what your position is.

Tell that to FDR that created the program, where was the funding for the rest? What line item funds those expenses? Stunning ignorance of history. Obama cut funding for SS and medicare and you supporters cheered it, now all of a sudden it is the "boomers" fault

 

[Greenbeard]

Tell that to FDR that created the program, where was the funding for the rest? What line item funds those expenses? Stunning ignorance of history. Obama cut funding for SS and medicare and you supporters cheered it, now all of a sudden it is the "boomers" fault

FDR's long dead, bud. And perhaps you didn't get the memo but Obama is a Boomer.

 

[Conservative]

FDR's long dead, bud. And perhaps you didn't get the memo but Obama is a Boomer.

Obama cut funding for Medicare so now you want the taxpayers to replace that funding with FIT and corporate income tax increases?? Typical liberalism You obviously have no idea what taxes you pay or their purpose. Medicare is funded by the SS Administration through FICA per the following

Medicare is funded by the Social Security Administration. Which means it's funded by taxpayers: We all pay 1.45% of our earnings into FICA - Federal Insurance Contributions Act, if you're into deciphering acronyms - which go toward Medicare. Employers pay another 1.45%, bringing the total to 2.9%

 

[Greenbeard]

Obama cut funding for Medicare so now you want the taxpayers to replace that funding with FIT and corporate income tax increases??

I want that? I've been saying we shouldn't bother. No more doctors visits, no more prescription drugs, nothing with no financing lined up. How does that suit you?

There's no problem Boomers couldn't solve by cutting taxes. Now there's one they can solve by not receiving the services they didn't fund.

 

[Conservative]

I want that? I've been saying we shouldn't bother. No more doctors visits, no more prescription drugs, nothing with no financing lined up. How does that suit you?

There's no problem Boomers couldn't solve by cutting taxes. Now there's one they can solve by not receiving the services they didn't fund.

Got it, someone else should pay for your personal responsibility issues. Cutting taxes?? Obama cut payroll taxes, FIT and Corporate taxes have nothing to do with Medicare or SS which are now 321 billion deficits and that isn't something Trump controls

 

[Greenbeard]

Got it, someone else should pay for your personal responsibility issues. ls

You're becoming incoherent. The "someone else" paying in this scenario is me. I pay for my care and that of the Boomers who refused to finance their own.

And yet the Boomers still have a shortfall. Which we have three ways to address:

Raise taxes (on me!) to pay for their services. You seem against this. (I might be, too!)

Deficit-finance it. You seem against this.

Cut their benefits such that Medicare is living within its means (i.e., end doctor visits, prescription drugs, anything outside a hospital). You seem against this.

 

[Tbird19482]

Corporate taxes are down due to reinvestment. The China tariffs are causing US mfg’s to purchase new equipment to take advantage of filling the supply chain China is priced out of. That “lost” corporate money comes back in wages due to increased hiring.

Really????
lets see 42% of all large Corps did NOT pay a cent on millions if not Billions in profits in 2017 , NOT a cent and according to the GAO after the Republican tax cuts the GAO says that is going up to 65%
are you telling us that 23% of all Corporations that paid FIT in 2017 are investing in all this new equipment and Buildings?
YES after the Trump tax cuts there will be 23% fewer Corps making over a million dollars in US Profits NOT [aying a cent in FIT
NO way all these corps are reinvesting
They ARE buying back stocks IS that what YOU call reinvesting back into the Company
Have a nice night

 

[JasperL]

"My" Party beats the alternative but I voted for the guy who actually submitted a lower budget, a budget you ignore

There's nothing easier in life or as a politician than submitting a budget, put together by some staffers, to Congress you know is DOA. What's hard is moving the people and congress to a deal, that's signed, and implemented. He had a GOP House and Senate and they filed it in the round file. Good EFFORT Trump!!!

If you want, we'll all get together and award Trump a BIGGEST BEST EVER PARTICIPATION TROPHY for his failed effort. If we raise some money we can even coat it in REAL GOLD suitable for his desk!

 

[JasperL]

It certainly does matter, SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses are most of the deficit that you want to blame on Trump. SS, Medicare are funded by FICA(Payroll taxes) so tell me exactly why federal income taxes and corporate taxes should be used to repay what the federal gov't "borrowed?"

Because by "borrowing" the payroll tax surpluses all those years building up the "trust funds", income taxes were lower than they'd otherwise have been.

Exploding deficits now matters to you?? That is a lie and typical left wing rhetoric. The exploding deficits are outside the control of Trump who you want to blame, you are nothing more than a partisan left wing liberal who is jealous of what others have and what others get to keep of their own money believing that it is yours

It's nice that you let us know the President doesn't control the budget. I learned that in kindergarten, but it's always good to get a refresher course. What he can do is lead, and work with Congress to demand spending cuts or tax increases if deficits matter. If he really cares, he can credibly threaten, then veto spending bills that don't meet his goals. He had a GOP Congress for the past two years, so why didn't Congress follow our Great Dear Leader?

 

[JasperL]

Yes he did, 1.4 trillion Discretionary and the rest Mandatory, you explain how Trump is responsible for mandatory spending?

Sounds like Trump is powerless to do anything. SAD!

 

[JasperL]

Revenue isn't the problem, entitlement spending is or should I say the "borrowing" of SS funds by previous Presidents and Congress. Now you want to raise taxes to fund the replacement of that money, typical liberalism, never accept responsibility for revenue abuse

Revenue minus spending = surplus (deficit)

Do you know how math works?

 

[OrphanSlug]

It certainly does matter, SS, Medicare, and Interest expenses are most of the deficit that you want to blame on Trump. SS, Medicare are funded by FICA(Payroll taxes) so tell me exactly why federal income taxes and corporate taxes should be used to repay what the federal gov't "borrowed?" Exploding deficits now matters to you?? That is a lie and typical left wing rhetoric. The exploding deficits are outside the control of Trump who you want to blame, you are nothing more than a partisan left wing liberal who is jealous of what others have and what others get to keep of their own money believing that it is yours

You are still contradicting yourself, we either have a unified budget or we do not. You claiming what is "most of the deficit" is arbitrary.

The point of this thread is deficits only matter to a party when they are no longer in control, but otherwise neither party seems to care about exploding deficits no matter what is going on with the economy. And it is a very factual position to take on Republicans and Democrats.

You coming in and deciding what part of the spending is deficit and what part of the spending is covered by revenue illustrates the OPs point to perfection, and reveals you also have no real interest in deficits either. Only who you can conveniently blame for them when deficits explode under a President (and associated Congress) you agree with.

Trump and the 115th Congress cut taxes, they all became contributors to increased deficits, and we have every empirical means to back that up.

Whine, cry, bitch, moan, and complain about "liberals" and "jealous" all you need to, that is nothing more than a cover up for supporting a President who campaigned on fixing this problem and ended up adding to it. Speaks directly to what the OP was talking about as well.

 

[Conservative]

You're becoming incoherent. The "someone else" paying in this scenario is me. I pay for my care and that of the Boomers who refused to finance their own.

And yet the Boomers still have a shortfall. Which we have three ways to address:

Raise taxes (on me!) to pay for their services. You seem against this. (I might be, too!)

Deficit-finance it. You seem against this.

Cut their benefits such that Medicare is living within its means (i.e., end doctor visits, prescription drugs, anything outside a hospital). You seem against this.

This thread is about the exploding deficit and as I pointed out accurately we currently have a 351 billion deficit in SS and Medicare and we have larger interest expense none of which has anything to do with Trump spending. Healthcare is an issue for you so start another thread. Your point is moot, I contributed 35 years to Medicare and also now have a supplement which I am paying for. You want someone else to pay for yours.

 

[Conservative]

There's nothing easier in life or as a politician than submitting a budget, put together by some staffers, to Congress you know is DOA. What's hard is moving the people and congress to a deal, that's signed, and implemented. He had a GOP House and Senate and they filed it in the round file. Good EFFORT Trump!!!

If you want, we'll all get together and award Trump a BIGGEST BEST EVER PARTICIPATION TROPHY for his failed effort. If we raise some money we can even coat it in REAL GOLD suitable for his desk!

Again, you are totally ignorant of the taxes you pay or their purpose. That exploding deficit is due to SS, Medicare, and Interest expense, that is reality

 

[Conservative]

Because by "borrowing" the payroll tax surpluses all those years building up the "trust funds", income taxes were lower than they'd otherwise have been.



It's nice that you let us know the President doesn't control the budget. I learned that in kindergarten, but it's always good to get a refresher course. What he can do is lead, and work with Congress to demand spending cuts or tax increases if deficits matter. If he really cares, he can credibly threaten, then veto spending bills that don't meet his goals. He had a GOP Congress for the past two years, so why didn't Congress follow our Great Dear Leader?

Income taxes never funded SS and Medicare and were never supposed to fund those programs. Learn the taxes you pay and their purpose

 

[Conservative]

Sounds like Trump is powerless to do anything. SAD!

Take a civics class

 

[Conservative]

Revenue minus spending = surplus (deficit)

Do you know how math works?

Sure do, do you know how to read the budget and the line items in it?

 

[Conservative]

You are still contradicting yourself, we either have a unified budget or we do not. You claiming what is "most of the deficit" is arbitrary.

The point of this thread is deficits only matter to a party when they are no longer in control, but otherwise neither party seems to care about exploding deficits no matter what is going on with the economy. And it is a very factual position to take on Republicans and Democrats.

You coming in and deciding what part of the spending is deficit and what part of the spending is covered by revenue illustrates the OPs point to perfection, and reveals you also have no real interest in deficits either. Only who you can conveniently blame for them when deficits explode under a President (and associated Congress) you agree with.

Trump and the 115th Congress cut taxes, they all became contributors to increased deficits, and we have every empirical means to back that up.

Whine, cry, bitch, moan, and complain about "liberals" and "jealous" all you need to, that is nothing more than a cover up for supporting a President who campaigned on fixing this problem and ended up adding to it. Speaks directly to what the OP was talking about as well.

Read the financial statement and you tell me. 321 billion deficit in SS and Medicare are the largest part of the so called exploding deficit. Keep dodging that reality.

 

[OrphanSlug]

Read the financial statement and you tell me. 321 billion deficit in SS and Medicare are the largest part of the so called exploding deficit. Keep dodging that reality.

I read the financial statement, now own up to us having a unified budget or not.

 

[Conservative]

Of course we have a unified budget, that is the problem! Social Security and Medicare were never intended to be on budget and part of any unified budget. It is funded by FICA taxes and was supposed to go into a lock box. Over the years bureaucrats have borrowed from that fund so now you want to raise taxes to compensate for that abuse of payroll revenue? Typical liberal, when abuse occurs just raise taxes to cover it up

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[OrphanSlug]

Of course we have a unified budget, that is the problem! Social Security and Medicare were never intended to be on budget and part of any unified budget. It is funded by FICA taxes and was supposed to go into a lock box. Over the years bureaucrats have borrowed from that fund so now you want to raise taxes to compensate for that abuse of payroll revenue? Typical liberal, when abuse occurs just raise taxes to cover it up

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Now we are getting somewhere.

Because we have a unified budget any move made or any change year to year impacts our overall fiscal condition and that includes association to our economy of which the government is an active participant in.

Trump's tax cuts took a portion of revenue out of the equation, the overall fiscal condition of the nation is slightly worse resulting in increased deficits, of which Trump's actions are a contributor to.

Worse, all of this is happening at a time when the economy is doing well and potentially approaching the next economic pullback. This is a time where deficits should be declining, as they were before Trump and the 115th Congress changed a few things.

Now we can argue all day long about a decades old decision on impacts and why we went to a unified budget, argue about the costs of Medicare or Social Security (or any other part of the unified budget.) But at the end of the day all revenue is a source for that unified budget and all outlays are an expenditure for that unified budget. Ideologically we can disagree on any revenue and any spending, but they are all linked and have been for decades now no matter if you agree with those aged decisions or not.

Social Security benefits being more than what was received in a given year, or costs of Medicare going up, or the spending for any area of the government going up does not remove the liability of Tax Cuts changing revenue. It all matters and it is devoid of reality to ideologically decide one change is a fault and another is not when it is all unified.

 

[Conservative]

No we aren't getting anywhere with you! You don't seem to grasp the reality that Social Security and Medicare were set as self funding programs funded by payroll taxes. The money over years has been borrowed and replaced with OU's. The money came from 2.9% tax on income! Now you want to increase taxes and fund it from income taxes to compensate for the abuse of those dollars. In the liberal World there is no responsibility for failure as you continue to show

The unified budget was established in the late 60s and isn't relevant to this issue at all.

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[JasperL]

Again, you are totally ignorant of the taxes you pay or their purpose. That exploding deficit is due to SS, Medicare, and Interest expense, that is reality

Lower revenues contribute to the deficit as well.

Revenue minus expenditures = surplus (deficit).

 

[OrphanSlug]

No we aren't getting anywhere with you! You don't seem to grasp the reality that Social Security and Medicare were set as self funding programs funded by payroll taxes. The money over years has been borrowed and replaced with OU's. The money came from 2.9% tax on income! Now you want to increase taxes and fund it from income taxes to compensate for the abuse of those dollars. In the liberal World there is no responsibility for failure as you continue to show

The unified budget was established in the late 60s and isn't relevant to this issue at all.

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Of course it is relevant, and you’ve admitted why.

It does not matter how many times you try to divorce revenue sources. Since the late 60s we have gone through periods where Social Security assets went up year on year (took in more intergovernmental debt than cashed out) and other periods where it fell (the exact opposite.) Either way we see general ledger impact as the transactions still occur positive or negative.

What you repeatedly fail to understand is all influences on the nation’s fiscal position are impacted by all choices made by Congress and the President, including changing tax revenue streams.

Praising one choice and chastising the other suggests a fundamental lack of understanding on your part as to what determines the fiscal position of this nation for a given year. We know deficits are going the wrong direction, and we know Trump’s tax cuts added to that reality.

 

[JasperL]

Income taxes never funded SS and Medicare and were never supposed to fund those programs. Learn the taxes you pay and their purpose

Correct! But you're conveniently missing the point.

SS and Medicare taxes funded the military, and all that other discretionary spending for decades as we ran big surpluses in the payroll tax accounts and massive deficits in the non-trust fund ledger. In Reagan's last year, we used about $125 billion in trust fund surpluses to offset part of a $250 billion deficit in the rest of the budget. That's because Ronnie lowered income taxes for the wealthy, then jacked up payroll taxes on working people, and used excess payroll taxes to offset his big income tax cuts.

So the government has since then used MY payroll tax contributions to fund lower income taxes. Now that we're digging into the surpluses it's time to raise income taxes to pay back that borrowed money from the trust funds.