Debt forgiveness is a totally backward idea

[bluesmoke]

I don't think contradicts what I said in the OP in any way. Debt forgiveness is an extremely dumb and unfair proposal and there are much better one that should have been made.

Not as dumb and unfair as giving rich people and large corps more money that they don't need and don't use as the tax cut intended. Better to give those struggling a break. I'd rather have tax revenue help pay student loan debt than give that revenue to the rich and large corps. College has become disproportionately more expensive than yrs ago and real income has not risen. Employers won't raise income on their own because that takes profits away from the corps and stockholders, hence the need for increasing min wage. You're upset at the little guy getting something, but apparently have no problem giving tax revenue away to people that already have a ton of money and don't need another cent. Meanwhile, regular folk have to go into debt up to their eyeballs just to get that piece of paper to qualify for entry to the workforce at low pay.

 

[OscarLevant]

Fortunately, most people see this. Warren killed her campaign with this "student loan forgiveness" nonsense.

Gov backed student loans enjoy a priviledge not bestowed on any other loans, in that, when you get a student loan, you can never declare bankruptcy, you are hunted for repayment no matter what your circumstances is, and it will continue to hunt you till the day you die even if you live in poverty.

Now, the right might think that is fair. No, it's not fair to grant that privilege and not others.

As long as that is true about student loans, I support student loan forgiveness, because without forgiveness, what remains is cruelty.

But, make student loans follow the same dynamics afforded other types of credit giving, or support student loan forgiveness in the event of poverty.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

No student debt forgiveness at the expense of American taxpayers, period.

Welcome to the world of personal responsibility.

 

[digitusmedius]

That’s a FOX news thing:rock

And a Trump thing...."A lot of people say...BS BS BS" or "A lot of people tell me.....BS BS BS"

 

[digitusmedius]

No student debt forgiveness at the expense of American taxpayers, period.

Welcome to the world of personal responsibility.

When Trump toadies demand we taxpayers stop paying for your Dirtbag's golf escapades or paying exorbitant rates at his resorts for his political activities then we might listen to people like you. Until then you're just noise.

 

[Greenbeard]

I'd rather have tax revenue help pay student loan debt than give that revenue to the rich and large corps.

Universities are large corps.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

When Trump toadies demand we taxpayers stop paying for your Dirtbag's golf escapades or paying exorbitant rates at his resorts for his political activities then we might listen to people like you. Until then you're just noise.

:lamo You just exposed yourself as a typical knee jerk liberal.

Because I’m against student debt forgiveness doesn’t make me either a Republican or a Trumpster.

Take a look at my posts. There’s nobody here more anti Trump than me.

 

[digitusmedius]

:lamo You just exposed yourself as a typical knee jerk liberal.

Because I’m against student debt forgiveness doesn’t make me either a Republican or a Trumpster.

Take a look at my posts. There’s nobody here more anti Trump than me.

And you've been an obvious Cult of Dirtbag charter member since forever. But it's always great comical relief to witness your type trying do denying it in the face of that obviousness. You even use Dirtbag's style of "rhetoric"....as in "Nobody knows more about wind than me" and "Nobody's less racist than me". The thing about people in cults as you are---you lose all ability to see yourselves for what your are. Please continue....

 

[trixare4kids]

:lamo You just exposed yourself as a typical knee jerk liberal.

Because I’m against student debt forgiveness doesn’t make me either a Republican or a Trumpster.

Take a look at my posts. There’s nobody here more anti Trump than me.

Your lean is Independent and for not wanting student loans forgiven you get labeled with some demeaning, anti-Trump pejorative by some illiberal DP poster who calls themselves a progressive. Pretty funny stuff, really.
And you're right. You are an anti-Trumper which is of course, your prerogative.

 

[Sand Castle]

Let's go through that BS turd by turd:
- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
The days of being able to make enough money working part-time and Summers to pay tuition disappeared at least a couple of decades ago. There are no victims in this category.
- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
No "you" didn't. You wouldn't have had any debt.
- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
It cost me a pile to get my kids through college and it wasn't wasted. I wouldn't have minded it not costing that much so I'd have more to leave them, though.
- if you are a [grand]parent who diligently contributed to 529 plan to use for school, you wasted your money
See above
- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
Who thinks that other than BSers like you?
- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills
Encourage, my ass. For too many people it's the only way to finance university education for most people today.

Final note: It's always amusing and enlightening to see rightwingers like this one grunt and strain to come up with what must seem to them as "brilliant" points which are based on and made up of the just the usual, stale but pure rightwing BS.

I agree, and why not shift our government monies from programs like Corporate welfare. Use the subsidies to help young tax payers have an affordable education. I'm not necessarly saying free education, but education loan help from federal tax dollars that will offset the graduates income level.

It's been estimated that repealing these special corporate wellfare tax breaks would save taxpayers $39 billion over 10 years.

Other examples of corporate welfare include billions in government subsidies for agricultural conglomerates, pharmaceutical makers, tech giants, and defense contractors.

Other industries don't get these benefits. Meanwhile, most families don't even benefit from tax credits and deductions for child care.

State and local governments are also handing out corporate welfare, often with no strings attached. In 2013, for example, the state of Washington approved a record $8.7 billion handout to Boeing in order “to maintain and grow its workforce within the state.“ What did Boeing do? In the following years, it laid off more than 12,000 workers in the state

 

[RaleBulgarian]

And you've been an obvious Cult of Dirtbag charter member since forever. But it's always great comical relief to witness your type trying do denying it in the face of that obviousness. You even use Dirtbag's style of "rhetoric"....as in "Nobody knows more about wind than me" and "Nobody's less racist than me". The thing about people in cults as you are---you lose all ability to see yourselves for what your are. Please continue....

Seriously, you’re making an even bigger fool of yourself now.

 

[digitusmedius]

Seriously, you’re making an even bigger fool of yourself now.

You'd be the expert on being a fool--I give you that.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

You'd be the expert on being a fool--I give you that.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/search.php?searchid=640988

 

[Moderate Right]

Personally, I would like to see student loans bankruptable if the student isn't able to get a job in their field after 5 years of documented trying

However, I would only do this for STEM and other majors where the job prospects are high. The dude with the philosophy degree should have known better.

Personally, I think no student loans should be given to ANYONE who has no reasonable expectation of paying them back. Most of the trouble lies in student loans given to people who should have never gotten them in the first place. I remember way back in my day many of the people I went to high school with got loans for going to college to party, take drugs, and have sex and graduated with student loans working at McDonalds. That still stands today. In a way, it wasn't their fault because they should have never been given the loans in the first place. You don't give morgages that people can't pay back. You don't give car loans to people who can't pay them back. Why should we give student loans to people who can't pay them back?

 

[digitusmedius]

View attachment 67274297
https://www.debatepolitics.com/search.php?searchid=640988

I'd love to get your explanation for why you have a profile of The Dirtbag for you avatar. That should settle the matter.

 

[digitusmedius]

Personally, I think no student loans should be given to ANYONE who has no reasonable expectation of paying them back. Most of the trouble lies in student loans given to people who should have never gotten them in the first place. I remember way back in my day many of the people I went to high school with got loans for going to college to party, take drugs, and have sex and graduated with student loans working at McDonalds. That still stands today. In a way, it wasn't their fault because they should have never been given the loans in the first place. You don't give morgages that people can't pay back. You don't give car loans to people who can't pay them back. Why should we give student loans to people who can't pay them back?

Has it not occurred to you that, by definition, students would not have been able to establish a credit worthy history? So, if they don't get loans they don't go to college--full stop. Or, maybe you're arguing for government paid tuition. Is that it? If so, right on, brother!

 

[Good4Nothin]

Let's go through that BS turd by turd:
- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
The days of being able to make enough money working part-time and Summers to pay tuition disappeared at least a couple of decades ago. There are no victims in this category.
- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
No "you" didn't. You wouldn't have had any debt.
- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
It cost me a pile to get my kids through college and it wasn't wasted. I wouldn't have minded it not costing that much so I'd have more to leave them, though.
- if you are a [grand]parent who diligently contributed to 529 plan to use for school, you wasted your money
See above
- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
Who thinks that other than BSers like you?
- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills
Encourage, my ass. For too many people it's the only way to finance university education for most people today.

Final note: It's always amusing and enlightening to see rightwingers like this one grunt and strain to come up with what must seem to them as "brilliant" points which are based on and made up of the just the usual, stale but pure rightwing BS.

You missed his whole point. If student debt is forgiven, then people who worked extra hard and saved for their kid's education DID waste their time. They could have taken it easy, had more vacations, a better car, etc. Because the debt would be forgiven anyway.

Rewarding people for bad decisions is not a good idea. For example, bailing out the big banks taught them they can take stupid risks, with no penalty.

 

[Good4Nothin]

No, she killed her campaign by flip flopping on M4A and calling herself "capitalist to the bone".

Student loan forgiveness is supported by most progressives.

Well that would just show us, once again, that most progressives have no sense.

I understand feeling sorry for people with giant student loans to pay. But there are better ways to help them. The taxpayers don't deserve to be penalized for this.

Oh, you say, taxpayers won't be penalized. The government will simply create more money to pay for it. Yeah that's the progressive answer to everything.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Not as dumb and unfair as giving rich people and large corps more money that they don't need and don't use as the tax cut intended. Better to give those struggling a break. I'd rather have tax revenue help pay student loan debt than give that revenue to the rich and large corps. College has become disproportionately more expensive than yrs ago and real income has not risen. Employers won't raise income on their own because that takes profits away from the corps and stockholders, hence the need for increasing min wage. You're upset at the little guy getting something, but apparently have no problem giving tax revenue away to people that already have a ton of money and don't need another cent. Meanwhile, regular folk have to go into debt up to their eyeballs just to get that piece of paper to qualify for entry to the workforce at low pay.

But of course you never wonder why college became unaffordable.

And maybe the government shouldn't give money to rich corporations OR to people who took out bad loans.

 

[RaleBulgarian]

I'd love to get your explanation for why you have a profile of The Dirtbag for you avatar. That should settle the matter.

Your mistake didn’t unsettle anything.

Take a closer look at my avatar (and signature line).

 

[Good4Nothin]

Let's go through that BS turd by turd:
- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
The days of being able to make enough money working part-time and Summers to pay tuition disappeared at least a couple of decades ago. There are no victims in this category.
- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
No "you" didn't. You wouldn't have had any debt.
- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
It cost me a pile to get my kids through college and it wasn't wasted. I wouldn't have minded it not costing that much so I'd have more to leave them, though.
- if you are a [grand]parent who diligently contributed to 529 plan to use for school, you wasted your money
See above
- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
Who thinks that other than BSers like you?
- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills
Encourage, my ass. For too many people it's the only way to finance university education for most people today.

Final note: It's always amusing and enlightening to see rightwingers like this one grunt and strain to come up with what must seem to them as "brilliant" points which are based on and made up of the just the usual, stale but pure rightwing BS.

I agree, and why not shift our government monies from programs like Corporate welfare. Use the subsidies to help young tax payers have an affordable education. I'm not necessarly saying free education, but education loan help from federal tax dollars that will offset the graduates income level.

It's been estimated that repealing these special corporate wellfare tax breaks would save taxpayers $39 billion over 10 years.

Other examples of corporate welfare include billions in government subsidies for agricultural conglomerates, pharmaceutical makers, tech giants, and defense contractors.

Other industries don't get these benefits. Meanwhile, most families don't even benefit from tax credits and deductions for child care.

State and local governments are also handing out corporate welfare, often with no strings attached. In 2013, for example, the state of Washington approved a record $8.7 billion handout to Boeing in order “to maintain and grow its workforce within the state.“ What did Boeing do? In the following years, it laid off more than 12,000 workers in the state

Big companies should not be getting welfare. The big banks should not have been bailed out. Anyone, whether Democrat or Republican, would probably agree with that.

Forgiving student loans is a separate question. People who got scammed with these loans need help, but they should be at least partly responsible. Otherwise, it makes everyone who paid for college, or paid back their loans, feel like a sucker. And it makes everyone who didn't go to college because they couldn't afford it, and were too smart to take out loans, feel gypped.

It's a bad idea. Hopefully, it won't get through congress.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Personally, I think no student loans should be given to ANYONE who has no reasonable expectation of paying them back. Most of the trouble lies in student loans given to people who should have never gotten them in the first place. I remember way back in my day many of the people I went to high school with got loans for going to college to party, take drugs, and have sex and graduated with student loans working at McDonalds. That still stands today. In a way, it wasn't their fault because they should have never been given the loans in the first place. You don't give morgages that people can't pay back. You don't give car loans to people who can't pay them back. Why should we give student loans to people who can't pay them back?

Well, there is a reason why they gave loans to anyone and everyone, without regard to whether they could pay it back. These loans can't be defaulted on, no matter what. They follow you for your whole life! So the government is almost guaranteed to get a lot of the money back, eventually.

What a horrible scheme. Who thought it up?

And by the way, did college tuition rise in response to the availability of these horrible loans?? The colleges made out great, the crooks.

 

[Slavister]

Let's go through that BS turd by turd

Ditto

- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
The days of being able to make enough money working part-time and Summers to pay tuition disappeared at least a couple of decades ago. There are no victims in this category.

Are you claiming students no longer work summer jobs to help pay tuition? Even though such jobs no longer go as far, students still DO it all the time, and per this proposal, they are wasting their time.

- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
No "you" didn't. You wouldn't have had any debt.

So yes you did waste your time, since you could have just taken out loans that would be forgiven anyway.

- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
It cost me a pile to get my kids through college and it wasn't wasted. I wouldn't have minded it not costing that much so I'd have more to leave them, though.

Those people that chose to let their kids have debt instead would be in same position as you after this program goes in effect. If your kids still had their debt, all of sudden taxpayers would pay for it and you would have had all that money nicely growing all these years. What a waste.

- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
Who thinks that other than BSers like you?

That's your argument? :lamo

To answer your question, anyone who paid off their debt just to see government take care of it for their classmates.

- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills
Encourage, my ass. For too many people it's the only way to finance university education for most people today.

Anyone trying to minimize their debt burden are clearly just suckers under this proposal.

Final note: It's always amusing and enlightening to see rightwingers like this one grunt and strain to come up with what must seem to them as "brilliant" points which are based on and made up of the just the usual, stale but pure rightwing BS.

:screwy

So I am yet another person on this thread you accuse of being "rightwinger" because you got no real defense for this nonsense. You seem pretty clueless. Next time check people's posting history before jumping to conclusions.

Not as dumb and unfair as giving rich people and large corps more money that they don't need and don't use as the tax cut intended.

Just because one thing is wrong does not mean we need to create another one. In the OP, I proposed 2 other reasonable solutions for the same problem.

... why not shift our government monies from programs like Corporate welfare. Use the subsidies to help young tax payers have an affordable education. I'm not necessarly saying free education, but education loan help from federal tax dollars that will offset the graduates income level.

I don't know why you agreed with digitusmedius when his reply was so clueless. As to your point, why not shift those money to reasonable programs, like ones proposed in the OP itself instead of ridiculous "debt forgiveness" that Warren/Bernie/Pete have jumped on board for?

 

[danielpalos]

Debt forgiveness for schooling is a totally backward idea that says
- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
- if you are a [grand]parent who diligently contributed to 529 plan to use for school, you wasted your money
- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills

Fair proposals include
- pay back tuition to former students, no matter whether it's paid off or not
- don't pay back anything; just make public schools free starting year 20XX

Solving simple poverty in an automatic manner with an automatic stabilizer like unemployment compensation in our at-will employment States is more economical and automatic, and solves for one form of inequality under our form of Capitalism.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Debt forgiveness for schooling is a totally backward idea that says
- if you worked summer jobs to pay off some of your tuition, you wasted your time
- if you worked hard to get scholarships, you wasted your time
- if you are a [grand]parent who helped out your kid to pay for school, you wasted your money
- if you are a [grand]parent who diligently contributed to 529 plan to use for school, you wasted your money
- if you finished school and thought as responsible person you should pay off your school debt asap, you were wrong
- we encourage people to take on debt over and above those that believe in paying off their bills

Fair proposals include
- pay back tuition to former students, no matter whether it's paid off or not
- don't pay back anything; just make public schools free starting year 20XX

It is.....when rules are broken in such a major way we all suffer. I also know that even ten years ago I personally knew people who were taking out a lot of college debt not caring about it, not expecting that they would ever have to pay it. This is the big reason I think why such debt was not allowed to be rubbed out when the bankruptcy law was rewritten.