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De Javu...I am feeling an eerie sense of dejavu

Middle_Ground said:
The 2020 democratic primary is shaping up too similar to what the Republican primaries looked like in 16.

Anyone else have this eerie feeling?
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Except with one difference, Bernie is not a despicable human being.
 
Excast said:
If Sanders continues down this path and walks into the convention with a commanding lead of hundreds of delegates, yet still short of the 1,990 mark, what do you believe is the just thing to happen?
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The party machinery will take over and Bernie won't be chosen, rest assured. It will be Either Biden or Klobuchar. DNC will not pick Bloomberg. Outsiders don't get picked by the DNC.


that would be a tragic error because there are more on the hard left that will feel cheated and sit it out if Bernie is not chosen than if Bernie is selected, because there will be more on the right who will vote anyway, as an anti-trump vote, though some might not. Bernie will garner more votes, overall, than any other candidate, in the general.
 
Middle_Ground said:
Lol so because Democrats want Walmart and Target to pay$15 an hour they got rid of unions?
If it wasn't for Reagan maybe Walmart workers could have had a Union and there wouldn't need to be a push to raise minimum wage.
I don't believe the world began in the 60's. I do believe once boomers got theirs they started clawing back every single thing they received so future generations suffered.
So basically your saying because women started getting educations and working so instead of a 2 income household doing twice as well as they were doing 40 years ago, many are in the same position and you see nothing wrong with that?
No where did I mention the "poor" I'm talking about working, tax paying Americans being short changed. There is help for the poor its those right above and in between getting squeezed.
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The Union jobs are leaving the country. Democrats are letting them leave.
 
Middle_Ground said:
Lol well I'm not that old but I've always gone back and forth. Agreed with something's on either side. I never really paid a lot of attention to politics always felt like we had steady hands at the wheel. This is the first time I don't feel that.
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Yeah, I was always comfortable with whoever was president in my lifetime up till now. I'm not comfortable with Trump. 2016 was one of those election where I wasn't comfortable with either major party candidate, hence my vote against both. For the first time when I asked the question, would either candidate leave this country in worst shape once they leave office than when either first entered the office. I came to the affirmative of yes on both. I couldn't vote in a sane conscious for either one.
 
Moderate Right said:
The Union jobs are leaving the country. Democrats are letting them leave.
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Okay Democrats are sending jobs overseas and stopping unions in all other industries....that's sarcasm just in case you missed it.
 
Perotista said:
Yeah, I was always comfortable with whoever was president in my lifetime up till now. I'm not comfortable with Trump. 2016 was one of those election where I wasn't comfortable with either major party candidate, hence my vote against both. For the first time when I asked the question, would either candidate leave this country in worst shape once they leave office than when either first entered the office. I came to the affirmative of yes on both. I couldn't vote in a sane conscious for either one.
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Yeah we'll have to disagree on that one. I remember Trump in NY. I had friends that were electricians, audio visual techs in Atlantic City that got screwed when he decided not to pay all the while walking outside handing out $100 dollar bills. Who knew that $100 dollar bill was in lieu of a paycheck and job?
I wasn't a Hilary fan, but she was better than Trump.
 
Middle_Ground said:
Okay Democrats are sending jobs overseas and stopping unions in all other industries....that's sarcasm just in case you missed it.
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Dems are letting jobs go overseas. Why do you think Trump won in 2016? Swing states were voting against the Dems policy of just letting jobs leave the country. Trump talked about bringing them back. That's why we're fighting trade wars and signing new trade deals.
 
Moderate Right said:
Dems are letting jobs go overseas. Why do you think Trump won in 2016? Swing states were voting against the Dems policy of just letting jobs leave the country. Trump talked about bringing them back. That's why we're fighting trade wars and signing new trade deals.
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I don't know why swing state voters, voted one way or the other and honestly I don't care. I do know most of these trade deals you speak of were negotiated and ratified between 1985 and 1995, with Republican Presidents and Congresses in between. How it became only a Democratic problem is beyond me to explain.
What I have seen in many of those swing states and whole lot of the poorer states is lots people beyond working age working because they have to. I see hospitals closing especially since 18. I don't see many young people or kids and I have to wonder will those places even be in existence in 40 years.
 
Middle_Ground said:
I don't know why swing state voters, voted one way or the other and honestly I don't care. I do know most of these trade deals you speak of were negotiated and ratified between 1985 and 1995, with Republican Presidents and Congresses in between. How it became only a Democratic problem is beyond me to explain.
What I have seen in many of those swing states and whole lot of the poorer states is lots people beyond working age working because they have to. I see hospitals closing especially since 18. I don't see many young people or kids and I have to wonder will those places even be in existence in 40 years.
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Much of it is about Democratic government regulation and taxes, forcing business out of the country for greener pastures. Democrats also want to just throw their hands up in the air saying, "That's just the new economy and we're just going to have to get used to it, but don't worry about that $30 per hour full time job with benefits you used to have because we are going to force Walmart and McDonalds to give you part time jobs for $15 per hour with lesser benefits". Some of those swing states were coal states and Hillary told voters that she was going to put coal companies out of business. She and the left didn't give a damn about people's jobs, all they cared about was saving the planet. That's why people are working past their age, because democrats and their strong union policies got rid of the $30 per hour jobs. Hospitals are closing due to Obamacare. More will close if we go with MFA. Many facilities will close, causing people to have to commute longer distances to receive care.
 
Moderate Right said:
Much of it is about Democratic government regulation and taxes, forcing business out of the country for greener pastures. Democrats also want to just throw their hands up in the air saying, "That's just the new economy and we're just going to have to get used to it, but don't worry about that $30 per hour full time job with benefits you used to have because we are going to force Walmart and McDonalds to give you part time jobs for $15 per hour with lesser benefits". Some of those swing states were coal states and Hillary told voters that she was going to put coal companies out of business. She and the left didn't give a damn about people's jobs, all they cared about was saving the planet. That's why people are working past their age, because democrats and their strong union policies got rid of the $30 per hour jobs. Hospitals are closing due to Obamacare. More will close if we go with MFA. Many facilities will close, causing people to have to commute longer distances to receive care.
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I'm sorry your so blinded by Democrat hatred you can't see the forest for the trees.
When people were getting paid $30-50 an hour to make stuff they could actually afford the stuff they were making. Republicans decided unions were bad started union busting, right to work etc. Those $30 bucks an hour jobs started shrinking, more people making less, no one to buy that stuff anymore. It's simple math. I guess you would prefer toxic water and air, people die younger so pensions and social security can stay solvent.
Saving the planet so you can actually have a life. It's like you want to believe that computers shouldn't have been invented because people would lose their jobs. Get over it. Coal needs to go, funny thing is there laying off and closing down under Trump, but guess what at least with Hilary had a plan for the coal workers, now there just out in the cold.
Hospitals are closing in states whose governors chose to fight the ACA. You may want to open your eyes to what's really going on out there in the real world.
You also may want to ask why so many seniors are working when they can barely keep going....try healthcare cost, bankrupt pension plans.
Yes under MFA for profit centers will shut down, while not for profit public hospitals will explode.
By the way 62k a year in many places is just poverty line living.Especially is 40k of that goes to healthcare and housing.
 
Middle_Ground said:
Yeah we'll have to disagree on that one. I remember Trump in NY. I had friends that were electricians, audio visual techs in Atlantic City that got screwed when he decided not to pay all the while walking outside handing out $100 dollar bills. Who knew that $100 dollar bill was in lieu of a paycheck and job?
I wasn't a Hilary fan, but she was better than Trump.
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Voting for the lesser of two evils, the least worst candidate or for the candidate I least wanted to lose just isn't my style. People vote for who they vote for due to numerous reasons. Some may seem asinine to me or you, but they are important to the person voting. So I never degraded or put one down for who they voted for or why. Each had and has their own reasons.

The way I looked at 2016, was what was the difference of hitting a concrete wall at 150 MPH or at 140 MPH. You just as dead although the lesser of two evils options may resonate better with most folks. I took a third option, I decided to keep the keys in my pocket and avoid that wall altogether.
 
Airyaman said:
Numbers weren't on Trump's side until they were.

Trump will have a billion dollar war chest and a closet full of Bernie's skeletons to trot out every day. Bernie simply has not been vetted in a national election.
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Memories of Willie Horton, the attacks in this election will be astounding for their hate and disinformation, aka lies
 
Middle_Ground said:
I'm sorry your so blinded by Democrat hatred you can't see the forest for the trees.
When people were getting paid $30-50 an hour to make stuff they could actually afford the stuff they were making. Republicans decided unions were bad started union busting, right to work etc. Those $30 bucks an hour jobs started shrinking, more people making less, no one to buy that stuff anymore. It's simple math. I guess you would prefer toxic water and air, people die younger so pensions and social security can stay solvent.
Saving the planet so you can actually have a life. It's like you want to believe that computers shouldn't have been invented because people would lose their jobs. Get over it. Coal needs to go, funny thing is there laying off and closing down under Trump, but guess what at least with Hilary had a plan for the coal workers, now there just out in the cold.
Hospitals are closing in states whose governors chose to fight the ACA. You may want to open your eyes to what's really going on out there in the real world.
You also may want to ask why so many seniors are working when they can barely keep going....try healthcare cost, bankrupt pension plans.
Yes under MFA for profit centers will shut down, while not for profit public hospitals will explode.
By the way 62k a year in many places is just poverty line living.Especially is 40k of that goes to healthcare and housing.
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Oh please the economy grows year by year. It is a several trillion dollar economy. To claim that people can't afford to buy products is ridiculous. And, it was unions demanding so much money that helped cause businesses to seek cheaper labor elsewhere. It was unions who forced our products to be more expensive, not Republicans.
 
Perotista said:
Voting for the lesser of two evils, the least worst candidate or for the candidate I least wanted to lose just isn't my style. People vote for who they vote for due to numerous reasons. Some may seem asinine to me or you, but they are important to the person voting. So I never degraded or put one down for who they voted for or why. Each had and has their own reasons.

The way I looked at 2016, was what was the difference of hitting a concrete wall at 150 MPH or at 140 MPH. You just as dead although the lesser of two evils options may resonate better with most folks. I took a third option, I decided to keep the keys in my pocket and avoid that wall altogether.
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I do have to point out though that since one of the two people who wanted to smash us into the wall won, we smashed into the wall anyway, despite your vote and my vote (I wrote in Kasich).
 
Moderate Right said:
I do have to point out though that since one of the two people who wanted to smash us into the wall won, we smashed into the wall anyway, despite your vote and my vote (I wrote in Kasich).
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At least there are two sane people on this site. The way I looked at it, 9 million folks nationwide voted to avoid the wall. We were overwhelmed, but we did what we could to keep those keys away from those who wanted to crash us into the wall.
 
Perotista said:
At least there are two sane people on this site. The way I looked at it, 9 million folks nationwide voted to avoid the wall. We were overwhelmed, but we did what we could to keep those keys away from those who wanted to crash us into the wall.
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I have to confess I was devastated when the Reform Party imploded. It really looked like it was going somewhere for a while.
 
Moderate Right said:
I have to confess I was devastated when the Reform Party imploded. It really looked like it was going somewhere for a while.
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We were hijacked in 2000 by Pat Buchanan and his people. We never realized until it was too late that Buchanan was placing his people into different state leadership positions. Long story, bottom line is Buchanan used his people to secure the Reform Party's nomination while most of the old Reform Party people left it.

Buchanan left the Republican Party to get the Reform Party's nomination. Then after the presidential election, he went back to being a Republican. At one time we had close to 300 state legislatures elected nationwide along with the governor of Minnesota. I suppose the bottom line was we were just too naive to realize what was going on by a very slick political operator, Pat Buchanan.

We tried to rebuild, but the damage was done. The Reform Party is only active in 6 states today. Georgia not being one of them. When asked my political affiliation, I still answer Reform Party. It's the only political party I ever belonged to and was very active in. I campaigned like heck for Ross Perot, both in 1992 and 96. Had Perot won Georgia in 1996, I was an elector and would have cast my electoral vote for him. I never work for nor campaigned for any other candidate or political party. After 2000 happened, most folks associated with the Reform Party went their separate ways never really getting back into politics. We were political novices not really knowing what we were doing, political innocents that got taken in by a very sly political operative in Pat Buchanan. To this day, I don't think any of us really know how he managed it.
 
Perotista said:
Voting for the lesser of two evils, the least worst candidate or for the candidate I least wanted to lose just isn't my style. People vote for who they vote for due to numerous reasons. Some may seem asinine to me or you, but they are important to the person voting. So I never degraded or put one down for who they voted for or why. Each had and has their own reasons.

The way I looked at 2016, was what was the difference of hitting a concrete wall at 150 MPH or at 140 MPH. You just as dead although the lesser of two evils options may resonate better with most folks. I took a third option, I decided to keep the keys in my pocket and avoid that wall altogether.
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I get it and I don't denigrate anyone for their vote either.
I think when you have had personal or close to experience with a candidate of any office I think it makes a difference.
 
Moderate Right said:
Oh please the economy grows year by year. It is a several trillion dollar economy. To claim that people can't afford to buy products is ridiculous. And, it was unions demanding so much money that helped cause businesses to seek cheaper labor elsewhere. It was unions who forced our products to be more expensive, not Republicans.
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1st you were for unions, and it was Democrats you hated because they somehow got rid of them and jobs.
Now unions caused jobs to leave by negotiating better stuff for employees.
Sorry I can't keep up with your shifting reasoning from thing to thing.
Possibly we can agree it was a complicated situation with lots of people to blame. And maybe just maybe it's not that easy to fix something that's been on a downward slope for 40 years and we should be moving on instead of trying to turn the clock back.
 
Middle_Ground said:
1st you were for unions, and it was Democrats you hated because they somehow got rid of them and jobs.
Now unions caused jobs to leave by negotiating better stuff for employees.
Sorry I can't keep up with your shifting reasoning from thing to thing.
Possibly we can agree it was a complicated situation with lots of people to blame. And maybe just maybe it's not that easy to fix something that's been on a downward slope for 40 years and we should be moving on instead of trying to turn the clock back.
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As with most things, both sides disagree on how to get where both sides want to go. It doesn't help when one side accuses the other of fighting a war against women, the poor, seniors, immigrants, minorities, and calls the other side racists, bigots, white nationalists, misogynists and call rich people evil and greedy and when one side wants to help those that need help merely by giving them things for free with nothing required of them in return. Many people come to America for the American Dream but the left want to take the dream away because, to them, their dream is socialism.
 
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