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Dateline Florida: Guns Win Again

calamity said:
So? Some people have driven drunk for 25 years without killing anyone. Does that mean we should let everyone drive drunk?
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No. It means we should focus our attention on the drunk driver instead of the car and the bottle.
 
calamity said:
So? Some people have driven drunk for 25 years without killing anyone. Does that mean we should let everyone drive drunk?
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Terrible analogy, driving drunk is a crime and is actively risking the lives of those around you. There is no constitutional right to drive drunk.
 
Spartacus FPV said:
Terrible analogy, driving drunk is a crime and is actively risking the lives of those around you. There is no constitutional right to drive drunk.
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Not to mention dishonestly misusing "use" versus "possess".
 
calamity said:
Domestic violence case turns into mass murder---Something that almost always happens when there are guns.
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Or baseball bats:

"Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed*Them’"
Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed Them’ « CBS Boston
EXCERPT "Authorities say a man accused of killing three family members and a caretaker in Massachusetts told officers he “freed them.” Records released Friday by the police say Orion Krause told officers he killed his mother, grandparents and a caretaker with a baseball bat."CONTINUED

Or knives:

"According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close"
According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close | The Daily Caller
EXCERPT "However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year. According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016."CONTINUED


Or gasoline:

"Happy Land fire"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire
EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline.[2][4] He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.[5]
Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED

Or cars:


"#1 Cause of Teen Deaths is Car Accidents"
https://www.chicagolawyer.com/1-cause-of-teen-deaths-is-car-accidents/
EXCERPT "Unsurprisingly, in several recent studies regarding the leading causes of deaths among teenagers, traffic accidents are once again among the main causes of deaths for America’s teenagers. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recently actually found that motor vehicle accidents were the #1 cause of death among teenagers,"CONTINUED


When will you ever grasp the simple fact that people have been killing other people with innumerable inanimate objects since the beginning of time?
 
calamity said:
So? Some people have driven drunk for 25 years without killing anyone. Does that mean we should let everyone drive drunk?
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ahh the i know you are but what am i.

drunk driving kills more people than guns do.
in fact cars, swimming pools, falling, and poisoning.
kill more people than guns.

we should ban those things.
 
B'smith said:
Or baseball bats:

"Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed*Them’"
Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed Them’ « CBS Boston
EXCERPT "Authorities say a man accused of killing three family members and a caretaker in Massachusetts told officers he “freed them.” Records released Friday by the police say Orion Krause told officers he killed his mother, grandparents and a caretaker with a baseball bat."CONTINUED

Or knives:

"According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close"
According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close | The Daily Caller
EXCERPT "However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year. According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016."CONTINUED


Or gasoline:

"Happy Land fire"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire
EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline.[2][4] He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.[5]
Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED

Or cars:


"#1 Cause of Teen Deaths is Car Accidents"
https://www.chicagolawyer.com/1-cause-of-teen-deaths-is-car-accidents/
EXCERPT "Unsurprisingly, in several recent studies regarding the leading causes of deaths among teenagers, traffic accidents are once again among the main causes of deaths for America’s teenagers. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recently actually found that motor vehicle accidents were the #1 cause of death among teenagers,"CONTINUED


When will you ever grasp the simple fact that people have been killing other people with innumerable inanimate objects since the beginning of time?
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ssssshhhhh these people don't care about facts.
 
vegas giants said:
The focus is on the people who use them
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Since when? I've lots from gun banners and alleged gun controllers. Not a word from people banners and people controllers.
 
jimbo said:
Since when? I've lots from gun banners and alleged gun controllers. Not a word from people banners and people controllers.
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Again....we will not put the gun in prison
 
vegas giants said:
Again....we will not put the gun in prison
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He's not talking about jail, he's talking about what we associate with the occurrence.

Whenever these shootings happen, the public reaction generally seems to solely centered around the weapon used, and not the individuals who did it. When the Santa Fe shooting occurred, I saw plenty of people demanding gun reform, but barely any talk about why that person committed the act of a shooting in the first place.
 
Tres1B said:
He's not talking about jail, he's talking about what we associate with the occurrence.

Whenever these shootings happen, the public reaction generally seems to solely centered around the weapon used, and not the individuals who did it. When the Santa Fe shooting occurred, I saw plenty of people demanding gun reform, but barely any talk about why that person committed the act of a shooting in the first place.
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Gun reform is centered on the person. Gun reform applies to people.
 
vegas giants said:
Gun reform is centered on the person. Gun reform applies to people.
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In your dreams. Your first two words (Gun reform) says it all.

Gun reform applies to people? Of course it does.
 
jimbo said:
In your dreams. Your first two words (Gun reform) says it all.

Gun reform applies to people? Of course it does.
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Again....we do not put guns in jail. We put people who break gun laws in jail.
 
Chillfolks said:
At least your position today is to focus on people and not the guns. You should wear your foil hat more often. It helps you.
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I accept your insult as victory. Its all you have. LOL
 
B'smith said:
Or baseball bats:

"Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed*Them’"
Man Accused Of Killing Family With Baseball Bat: ‘I Freed Them’ « CBS Boston
EXCERPT "Authorities say a man accused of killing three family members and a caretaker in Massachusetts told officers he “freed them.” Records released Friday by the police say Orion Krause told officers he killed his mother, grandparents and a caretaker with a baseball bat."CONTINUED

Or knives:

"According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close"
According To The FBI, Knives Kill Far More People Than Rifles In America – It’s Not Even Close | The Daily Caller
EXCERPT "However, recent statistics from 2016 show that knives actually kill nearly five times as many people as rifles that year. According to the FBI, 1,604 people were killed by “knives and cutting instruments” and 374 were killed by “rifles” in 2016."CONTINUED


Or gasoline:

"Happy Land fire"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Happy_Land_fire
EXCERPT "González went to an Amoco gas station, then returned to the establishment with a plastic container with $1 worth of gasoline.[2][4] He spread the fuel at the base of a staircase, the only access into the club, and then ignited the gasoline.[5]
Eighty-seven people died in the resulting fire."CONTINUED

Or cars:


"#1 Cause of Teen Deaths is Car Accidents"
https://www.chicagolawyer.com/1-cause-of-teen-deaths-is-car-accidents/
EXCERPT "Unsurprisingly, in several recent studies regarding the leading causes of deaths among teenagers, traffic accidents are once again among the main causes of deaths for America’s teenagers. The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) recently actually found that motor vehicle accidents were the #1 cause of death among teenagers,"CONTINUED


When will you ever grasp the simple fact that people have been killing other people with innumerable inanimate objects since the beginning of time?
Click to expand...
You might as well ask the real question..."When will you tire of exploiting dead children to promote your cause?" And the answer for people like him is obvious...never. He doesnt care about dead children. He doesnt care about the FACT that parents kill their children in the most heinous of ways. He only cares about the dead children he can exploit.
 
VanceMack said:
You might as well ask the real question..."When will you tire of exploiting dead children to promote your cause?" And the answer for people like him is obvious...never. He doesnt care about dead children. He doesnt care about the FACT that parents kill their children in the most heinous of ways. He only cares about the dead children he can exploit.
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If dead children is not a reason for action.....nothing is
 
vegas giants said:
I accept your insult as victory. Its all you have. LOL
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Acceptance of the truth is a good first step. You're making progress make sure to mention it in group. You may get a gold star by your name.
 
This guy could not legally own fire arms.

So how did he get them? He could have just walked into a gun store and bought them.

Florida didn't run background checks for a year on concealed carry applications, because the mail room clerk they promoted to oversee the system forget her login.

So, I'm thinking, if the state itself is having problems with background checks. What about the gun vendors.

Well, here's the thing. This guy could have bought a gun from his neighbor. Who had bought it legally. There is no law, saying you have to background check your neighbor to sell them a gun. No law saying you can't sell your legally obtained gun, to a convicted murderer that has escaped from prison and tells you to your face he plans on murdering an entire church with it. You can still sell him that gun. And suffer no legal ramifications.

You can go into a gun store, and purchase 100 guns legally. Then go and find a street gang. And sell them those guns, knowing full well they are a gang. And they are going to murder people. And knowing full well, you have done nothing illegal.

Now, my point isn't an argument for banning guns. Banning guns would just make the problems worse. Harder to track.

My point is, attach a punishment to the people that are selling weapons to criminals.

Your rebuttal is going to be, we can't enforce that. No, we ****ing can't. But we can punish it. You sell some incel your rifle, knowing he's got priors, and they murder some people. You should go to jail.

But how will he know if the guys got priors.

The ****ing internet guys. If your selling your gun for 1200 dollars, spending 20 bucks on a criminal report of the guy your selling to doesn't seem like a lot. To keep your ass out of butt rape jail.

And as restricting the sale of fire arms to criminals, does not infringe on legal gun owners rights to bear arms. This does not violate the second. This measure just requires them to do a google search on a guy before selling their gun to them.

Because in my opinion. If you sell a criminal a gun, you are just as responsible for any harm they do with that gun. Because they wouldn't have the gun, if you had checked to see if they were responsible and legally allowed to carry one.

And you belong in jail. And have your rights to fire arms stripped. If you can't ask a simple question like, are you a felon.

This is why I hate the NRA, they are not for gun rights. They are for gun sales. And as a measure that keeps people from buying loads of guns and selling them on the black market would hurt gun sales. They block the **** out of it.

Meaning, any gun on the black market, that started out on the legal market. Is there in part because the NRA keeps those people from being punished.

And cue the NRA stooge that is about to respond with. You're a dishonest liar bannerhoid, prove the NRA has anything to do with that. Straw man. Straw man. Insult. Insult. Declaration of victory.

There saved us some trouble.
 
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Chillfolks said:
Acceptance of the truth is a good first step. You're making progress make sure to mention it in group. You may get a gold star by your name.
Click to expand...

Have a wonderful day
 
ThoughtEx. said:
This guy could not legally own fire arms.

So how did he get them? He could have just walked into a gun store and bought them.

Florida didn't run background checks for a year on concealed carry applications, because the mail room clerk they promoted to oversee the system forget her login.

So, I'm thinking, if the state itself is having problems with background checks. What about the gun vendors.

Well, here's the thing. This guy could have bought a gun from his neighbor. Who had bought it legally. There is no law, saying you have to background check your neighbor to sell them a gun. No law saying you can't sell your legally obtained gun, to a convicted murderer that has escaped from prison and tells you to your face he plans on murdering an entire church with it. You can still sell him that gun. And suffer no legal ramifications.

You can go into a gun store, and purchase 100 guns legally. Then go and find a street gang. And sell them those guns, knowing full well they are a gang. And they are going to murder people. And knowing full well, you have done nothing illegal.

Now, my point isn't an argument for banning guns. Banning guns would just make the problems worse. Harder to track.

My point is, attach a punishment to the people that are selling weapons to criminals.

Your rebuttal is going to be, we can't enforce that. No, we ****ing can't. But we can punish it. You sell some incel your rifle, knowing he's got priors, and they murder some people. You should go to jail.

But how will he know if the guys got priors.

The ****ing internet guys. If your selling your gun for 1200 dollars, spending 20 bucks on a criminal report of the guy your selling to doesn't seem like a lot. To keep your ass out of butt rape jail.

And as restricting the sale of fire arms to criminals, does not infringe on legal gun owners rights to bear arms. This does not violate the second. This measure just requires them to do a google search on a guy before selling their gun to them.

Because in my opinion. If you sell a criminal a gun, you are just as responsible for any harm they do with that gun. Because they wouldn't have the gun, if you had checked to see if they were responsible and legally allowed to carry one.

And you belong in jail. And have your rights to fire arms stripped. If you can't ask a simple question like, are you a felon.

This is why I hate the NRA, they are not for gun rights. They are for gun sales. And as a measure that keeps people from buying loads of guns and selling them on the black market would hurt gun sales. They block the **** out of it.

Meaning, any gun on the black market, that started out on the legal market. Is there in part because the NRA keeps those people from being punished.

And cue the NRA stooge that is about to respond with. You're a dishonest liar bannerhoid, prove the NRA has anything to do with that. Straw man. Straw man. Insult. Insult. Declaration of victory.

There saved us some trouble.
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SO many things wrong with your comments. If you buy guns with the intent to sell guns, you are breaking the law.

You know that...right?

If you buy guns with the intent to sell guns to criminals, you have broken several laws.

You know THAT as well...right?

If you KNOWINGLY provide a firearm to someone that is not legally eligible to purchase a firearm, you have broken the law.

But again...you KNOW that....right?

The NRA is absolutely in favor of gun rights. Gun sales? Sure...that too...but gun rights first and foremost. Why do you believe they oppose universal background checks. That wouldnt impact gun sales...only secondary gun sales...so...why? Because we know...we all KNOW...the intent of background checks is to create a registry. No other reason. None. As you clearly pointed out...background checks in this case failed because Florida's system was flawed, but background checks are done in most...virtually all instances of mass shootings.

Ive offered a background check solution. ANY prospective buyer should go to their nearest law enforcement agency, have a NICS check done and when completed be given a notarized form good for 30 days to allow them to buy whatever firearm they like. A seller simply needs to check ID and certificate...and away they go. But leftists dont like it because there is no mechanism in that model for tracking firearm sales and transfers. And at the end of the day, THAT is what they want, and THAT is why the NRA opposes it.

Oh...and we are ABSOLUTELY on the same page with regards to punishing people that sell firearms illegally. I would see mandatory minimum sentences as well as charges as an accessory. Nail them to the wall.
 
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