Current Attempts to destroy Gun rights in Congress

[SoCal]

what restrictions do you think are needed, that are not already on the books.

I'll make a comment every now and then, although I'd rather not get into another long debate on gun control. We just disagree. But as long as you're asking, other than the handgun roster, I would federalize all the laws, restrictions and definitions used in California.

...Arguing the difference is like arguing with a HEMA enthusiast that a Patton saber is not a saber at all but a sword...

It's probably best if you just call it a magazine...

 

[TurtleDude]

I'll make a comment every now and then, although I'd rather not get into another long debate on gun control. We just disagree. But as long as you're asking, other than the handgun roster, I would federalize all the laws, restrictions and definitions used in California.



It's probably best if you just call it a magazine...

given the failure of Californian laws to do anything other than harass honest people, I would fight such actions. Californian laws would be unconstitutional federally,.

 

[Aberration]

"Clip" is easier to say and to type and who is to say what is correct or not ?

There is no definition of the words....dictionaries don't actually define the meaning of a word, rather that explain its use at that time.

Arguing the difference is like arguing with a HEMA enthusiast that a Patton saber is not a saber at all but a sword


I grant you though, calling any semi-automatic rifle a "weapon of war" is at best disingenuous and at worst a widely incorrect label designed to produce an unwarranted emotional response.

Mag is easier in both regards. The definition has not changed much, been used for over a hundred years for the purpose. No need to change now because some choose to be willfully ignorant.

Magazine | Definition of Magazine at Dictionary.com

“a metal receptacle for a number of cartridges, inserted into certain types of automatic weapons and when empty removed and replaced by a full receptacle in order to continue firing.”

 

[TurtleDude]

Mag is easier in both regards. The definition has not changed much, been used for over a hundred years for the purpose. No need to change now because some choose to be willfully ignorant.

Magazine | Definition of Magazine at Dictionary.com

“a metal receptacle for a number of cartridges, inserted into certain types of automatic weapons and when empty removed and replaced by a full receptacle in order to continue firing.”

one of the biggest lies going is when the Democrats call normal capacity magazines "high capacity magazines". the fact is-arbitrarily picking a number-such as ten-to determine what is a 'high capacity magazine' is one of the most dishonest bits of nonsense that the anti rights coalition has perpetrated.

 

[Rich2018]

Mag is easier in both regards....

I think "clip is"
But each to his own, I would understand what you meant

The definition has not changed much, been used for over a hundred years for the purpose. No need to change now because some choose to be willfully ignorant.

Language is a living thing and words change meaning over time
It is not "willfully ignorant" it is willfully wishing to change the use of a term

In the British army a camouflaged, hooded outer jacket is often referred to as a "smock" but it isn't a smock...that's a WWII term that became popular with soldiers

And of course the big one:

You said in post #94:

The entire article is based on a fallacy. No one is buying guns because they fear minorities. Idiocy like this is exactly what push people to vote for Trump.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ing-fight-covid-19-guns-10.html?highlight=gun


The term "gun" is used by people who want to be willfully ignorant about firearms

A "gun" is correctly used to refer to artillery pieces only.

 

[Rich2018]

one of the biggest lies going is when the Democrats call normal capacity magazines "high capacity magazines". the fact is-arbitrarily picking a number-such as ten-to determine what is a 'high capacity magazine' is one of the most dishonest bits of nonsense that the anti rights coalition has perpetrated.

"William B. Ruger, a founder of Sturm, Ruger & Co., is often ascribed with providing the impetus for high capacity magazine restrictions. Ruger proposed that instead of banning firearms, Congress should outlaw magazines holding more than 15 rounds. “No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun,” Ruger told Tom Brokaw of NBC News in 1992. On March 30, 1989, Ruger sent a letter to every member of the US Congress stating:

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives."


High-capacity magazine ban - Wikipedia

 

[DebateChallenge]

No, I don't kill for fun

I think it's a reaction of dubious virtue at best.

So you don't have any knowledge or experience with hunting, which is why its pointless for you to argue with me about why a hunter would use a semi automatic rifle.

 

[Rich2018]

So you don't have any knowledge or experience with hunting, which is why its pointless for you to argue with me about why a hunter would use a semi automatic rifle.

Who says I have no knowledge ?


Why is it pointless to argue that a hunter doesn't need a semi-auto gun ?


Sure, a semi-auto gun helps make hunting easier. But what about the hunter's ethos of "a sporting chance"


Would a fully automatic gun be even easier ?

 

[RF667799]

Who says I have no knowledge ?


Why is it pointless to argue that a hunter doesn't need a semi-auto gun ?


Sure, a semi-auto gun helps make hunting easier. But what about the hunter's ethos of "a sporting chance"


Would a fully automatic gun be even easier ?

Personal ethics, not a universal code. Easier is not synonymous with unethical anyway.

 

[RF667799]

"William B. Ruger, a founder of Sturm, Ruger & Co., is often ascribed with providing the impetus for high capacity magazine restrictions. Ruger proposed that instead of banning firearms, Congress should outlaw magazines holding more than 15 rounds. “No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun,” Ruger told Tom Brokaw of NBC News in 1992. On March 30, 1989, Ruger sent a letter to every member of the US Congress stating:

"The best way to address the firepower concern is therefore not to try to outlaw or license many millions of older and perfectly legitimate firearms but to prohibit the possession of high capacity magazines. By a simple, complete and unequivocal ban on large capacity magazines, all the difficulty of defining 'assault rifle' and 'semi-automatic rifles' is eliminated. The large capacity magazine itself, separate or attached to the firearm, becomes the prohibited item. A single amendment to Federal firearms laws could effectively implement these objectives.

High-capacity magazine ban - Wikipedia

Bill Ruger was probably trying to protect one of his most popular products from finding itself on a list.

Another Wiki entry says he suggested the limit be 15 rounds, showing such suggestions are indeed arbitrary.

 

[Rich2018]

one of the biggest lies going is when the Democrats call normal capacity magazines "high capacity magazines". the fact is-arbitrarily picking a number-such as ten-to determine what is a 'high capacity magazine' is one of the most dishonest bits of nonsense that the anti rights coalition has perpetrated.

William B. Ruger, a founder of Sturm, Ruger & Co, proposed that instead of banning firearms, Congress should outlaw magazines holding more than 15 rounds. “No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun” he said.

 

[Maidenrules29]

The only "rights" a person has are those his/her government allow them to have.

You dont believe in natural rights?

 

[Aberration]

I think "clip is"
But each to his own, I would understand what you meant

Language is a living thing and words change meaning over time
It is not "willfully ignorant" it is willfully wishing to change the use of a term

Language is only living to those who are lazy or wish to change it to make the past appear other than it was. It’s ignorant even if you got a really long excuse.

In the British army a camouflaged, hooded outer jacket is often referred to as a "smock" but it isn't a smock...that's a WWII term that became popular with soldiers

And of course the big one:

You said in post #94:

https://www.debatepolitics.com/gene...ing-fight-covid-19-guns-10.html?highlight=gun

The term "gun" is used by people who want to be willfully ignorant about firearms

A "gun" is correctly used to refer to artillery pieces only.

Wrong again.
Gun | Definition of Gun at Dictionary.com
Smock | Definition of Smock at Dictionary.com

 

[Aberration]

The only "rights" a person has are those his/her government allow them to have.

It now makes sense why firearms scare you. People might be able to express themselves other than those made from finer clay have determined is proper.

You do realize this mentality is precisely the reason for the existence of the 2A? Specifically.

 

[Aberration]

William B. Ruger, a founder of Sturm, Ruger & Co, proposed that instead of banning firearms, Congress should outlaw magazines holding more than 15 rounds. “No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun” he said.

Was Ruger an authority on honest men? And what about women?

 

[RF667799]

William B. Ruger, a founder of Sturm, Ruger & Co, proposed that instead of banning firearms, Congress should outlaw magazines holding more than 15 rounds. “No honest man needs more than 10 rounds in any gun” he said.

Yes a genius in one area can be a dithering idiot in another.

 

[Rich2018]

Language is only living to those who are lazy...

No, language is a living thing to anyone who knows about it you're assertion that only lazy people use words to indicate a different meaning shows your ignorance

The meaning of words change over time

Wrong again.

No, it is you who are wrong.

A "gun" used to refer to an artillery piece, though it's use in English has changed over the years to mean any kind of firearm. When I was a soldier (1986-2001) the word "gun" to describe your personal weapon, was discouraged
Are you not familiar with the scene from he movie "Full Metal Jacket" ?

And a "smock" is indeed a loose over garment - specifically it is pulled over the head. In WWII British forces adopted them in both the desert and airborne warfare (though there was an "officers" airborne version with a full length zip). After the war, as zippers because more popular, the design changed to incorporate a full length zip for all models, so they could be worn as a jacket, but the name "smock" remains to this day.
Sarma Windproof Smock - Varusteleka.com

Was Ruger an authority on honest men? And what about women?

For most of its history, the USA has viewed women as second class citizens so it's not unexpected to see historical figures refer to just "men"

Though isn't it strange that a revered designer of guns, can be quickly derided by the gun community if he utters anything that contradicts them ?


To quote the man, many on the right regard as America's greatest president, TDR:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better."
“The only man who never makes mistakes is the man who never does anything.”
"Do not let selfish men or greedy interests skin your country of its beauty, its riches or its romance.”
“I am an American; free born and free bred, where I acknowledge no man as my superior..."

It now makes sense why firearms scare you. People might be able to express themselves other than those made from finer clay have determined is proper.

You do realize this mentality is precisely the reason for the existence of the 2A? Specifically.

In the history of modern politics, only one democracy has failed the German Wiemar Republic. And guns, held by the people, would not have preserved it

 

[Rich2018]

You dont believe in natural rights?

No I don't

Human rights perhaps....but that normally means a regime shouldn't kill, torture (or otherwise physically coerce) it's people.

 

[Chillfolks]

No I don't

Human rights perhaps....but that normally means a regime shouldn't kill, torture (or otherwise physically coerce) it's people.

Do you beleive in a right to life and if so where does that right come from?

 

[Rich2018]

Do you beleive in a right to life and if so where does that right come from?

No I don't

And if you do, how do you explain the dropping of the bomb ?

 

[SoCal]

Bill Ruger was probably trying to protect one of his most popular products from finding itself on a list.

Another Wiki entry says he suggested the limit be 15 rounds, showing such suggestions are indeed arbitrary.

Ten, 15 or 12, the numbers represent what I believe, he believed America needed, a ban on high capacity magazines. And I take exception to your insinuation Ruger proposed this ban for money. An insult to a great man.

How many years has a Single-Six or Flattop been the first gun new owners buy? Decades...

 

[RF667799]

Ten, 15 or 12, the numbers represent what I believe, he believed America needed, a ban on high capacity magazines. And I take exception to your insinuation Ruger proposed this ban for money. An insult to a great man.

How many years has a Single-Six or Flattop been the first gun new owners buy? Decades...

He was a great gun designer. Did he design a Mini-14 that couldn't accept a 30 round magazine? The AWB exempted Mini-14s and Mini-30s. I believe he was trying to curry favor being under the impression that going along in one area means you will be left alone in others.

You have a different opinion on that, but I would say he sure did sell a lot of Mini-14s....

 

[Rich2018]

You dont believe in natural rights?

No I don't

Or inalienable/unalienable rights


A right is something allowed by your government


Now human rights are different. That refers to a totalitarian government abusing (unusually physically) some of its people - usually for dissension.

 

[TurtleDude]

He was a great gun designer. Did he design a Mini-14 that couldn't accept a 30 round magazine? The AWB exempted Mini-14s and Mini-30s. I believe he was trying to curry favor being under the impression that going along in one area means you will be left alone in others.

You have a different opinion on that, but I would say he sure did sell a lot of Mini-14s....

He was trying to suck up to state governments. Ruger Mini 14s are inferior to most AR 15s in terms of reliability, durability and interchangeability of parts. But they were popular with some LE Agencies-especially state prison guards.

 

[Rich2018]

He was trying to suck up to state governments. Ruger Mini 14s are inferior to most AR 15s in terms of reliability, durability and interchangeability of parts. But they were popular with some LE Agencies-especially state prison guards.

Ruger pistols sell well.