Courts hammer Trump for sabotaging Obamacare, in rulings that could cost the Treasury billions

[DH Kirkwood]

Not sure anyone working for a large corporation or the government (state,city,federal) would trade their insurance for medicare.

I work for a large corporation. Do not have medical insurance. I'm sold.

Keep in mind that a universal medicare expansion won't abolish the insurance industry. It will greatly reduce the demand for it, thus also causing a reduction in the industry itself, but they'll still exist. I must admit that I don't know what this means in regards to companies that offer health insurance to employees. Universal healthcare should minimize the company's healthcare plan's attractiveness as a benefit, so I would imagine that they would either have to forgo the benefit altogether, or expand upon it to compete with Med4All.

Then again, supplemental insurance might actually be much cheaper for the employer than the original plan.

 

[ludin]

The ACA was the heritage foundation version of first world healthcare. However, the Trumpist party wasn't even confident enough in its position to let it fail on its own. It was sabotaged at every step. It's time for single payer, IMO.

Is the ACA the GOP health care plan from 1993? | PunditFact

However, to call it the Republican plan, as though a majority of Republicans endorsed it, goes too far. The House Republicans took a different path, and there was opposition from more hard-line members of the Republican coalition. It is telling that the Chafee bill never became a full blown bill and never came up for a vote.

No, Obamacare Wasn't a "Republican" Proposal

When I actually took the time to read the Heritage plan, what I found was a proposal that was radically dissimilar to the Affordable Care Act. Had Obama proposed anything like the Heritage Plan, Moore would have been leading daily marches against it in front of the White House—and I would have been right there with him.

The argument for the similarity between the two plans depends on their one shared attribute: both contained a "mandate" requiring people to carry insurance coverage. But this basic recognition of the free-rider problem does not establish a fundamental similarity between the two plans.

now that you have been told you are wrong for the 1000th time you can't stop with this lie.

straight from the horses mouth that invented the hertitage plan and he says that you are wrong as well.
Don't Blame Heritage for ObamaCare Mandate | The Heritage Foundation

So now that you have been educated you stop posting this myth and lie, but i doubt you will.

 

[ludin]

Lots of people would have preferred that but comparing the ACA to flying unicorns which also were a fantasy in that reality isn't very productive. And as Greenbeard has pointed out, in a state dedicated to make something like the ACA work, instead of the GOP working like heck to make it fail and be replaced with nothing, it does work, very well.

The Gop did nothing. the ACA was designed to fail from the beginning.
it was designed to collapse the private healthcare insurance market so that obama could claim yet another crisis
and force everyone onto **** crap government healthcare.

yet the private insurance companies got smart early and didn't take the bait and pulled out of the markets.

they risked year 1 because why wouldn't they? the government was going to cover their losses.
even year 2 losses would be covered. after that they started sky rocketing premiums and started pulling out of exchanges.

out of all the co-ops there is what only 2 left open out of like 12 that started.

the ACA was a piece of **** bill from the beginning.

 

[ludin]

Not sure anyone working for a large corporation or the government (state,city,federal) would trade their insurance for medicare.

I wouldn't. half the doctors and specialist and hospitals around here don't take medicaid and more are reducing medicare coverage.
I have great coverage and it is less expensive than the cost of government **** care.

 

[JasperL]

Most of us HAVE to do it. I currently have the choice as my spouse works. I will stay OFF Medicare until I have to. Cost goes way up under Medicare.

That is just not true if you have a decent supplemental, which the vast majority do have. :roll:

 

[JasperL]

The Gop did nothing. the ACA was designed to fail from the beginning.
it was designed to collapse the private healthcare insurance market so that obama could claim yet another crisis
and force everyone onto **** crap government healthcare.

It's weird how private insurers have done well under ACA if the design was to collapse them..... How do you explain that result?

And depending on the day, other right wingers and others claim some of the Democrats who voted for the plan and designed much of it was just shills and toadies for the private insurance industry. Strange.....

yet the private insurance companies got smart early and didn't take the bait and pulled out of the markets.

they risked year 1 because why wouldn't they? the government was going to cover their losses.
even year 2 losses would be covered. after that they started sky rocketing premiums and started pulling out of exchanges.

out of all the co-ops there is what only 2 left open out of like 12 that started.

the ACA was a piece of **** bill from the beginning.

Sounds like you've done an honest and thorough analysis! :roll:

And here's the thing - I'm really over whining from GOPers on this stuff. If the GOP don't like the ACA, great, let's see this easy, cheaper, more effective plan that covers more people for less money and helps the middle class without raising taxes or rationing care. You guys keep comparing the ACA to flying unicorns and I'm just waiting on the critics of ACA to show me their unicorns!

Seems that all the Republicans in Congress (and it goes without saying Trump is worthless on this) can do is throw rocks at what someone else comes up with but are too stupid or lazy or uninterested to do the hard work of coming up with a better alternative. Why would I care what the GOP in Congress think about healthcare at this point? They're completely worthless - at BEST they are arsonists whining about how the firefighters are dealing with the fires they set.

 

[washunut]

That is just not true if you have a decent supplemental, which the vast majority do have. :roll:

You are saying that what I am not doing is not true??? It is getting boring having people calling facts lies because it does not fit their partisan B.S. For example what is the cost of Medicare plus the supplemental versus the town paid for insurance?

 

[Sampson Simpson]

Lots of people would have preferred that but comparing the ACA to flying unicorns which also were a fantasy in that reality isn't very productive. And as Greenbeard has pointed out, in a state dedicated to make something like the ACA work, instead of the GOP working like heck to make it fail and be replaced with nothing, it does work, very well.

Those people are complete morons, because every industrialized world has universal healthcare, except the US. A lot of functioning unicorns. Universal healthcare works, its not magical.

It just shows how dumb the opposition really are. And they only oppose because they have eaten pro corproate propaganda for decades

 

[JasperL]

You are saying that what I am not doing is not true??? It is getting boring having people calling facts lies because it does not fit their partisan B.S. For example what is the cost of Medicare plus the supplemental versus the town paid for insurance?

OK, you said this: "Cost goes way up under Medicare."

I've never seen any data to support that conclusion. Here's an estimate of average monthly costs for supplemental plans, and the highest is $450/month, with most in the $300-350 range. I'm positive no one near 65 can buy a plan that covers what Medicare does for $400/month.

Cost of Supplemental Health Insurance for Seniors

But if you have data showing Medicare all in is more expensive than private insurance, you're welcome to cite it and prove me wrong. I've never seen it, never had a friend who retired complain about it - just the opposite - many count down the days to Medicare coverage, and I know my mother in law's OOP, and medicare is great for her. All the polling I've seen indicates seniors are very happy overall with Medicare.

 

[ludin]

It's weird how private insurers have done well under ACA if the design was to collapse them..... How do you explain that result?

And depending on the day, other right wingers and others claim some of the Democrats who voted for the plan and designed much of it was just shills and toadies for the private insurance industry. Strange.....



Sounds like you've done an honest and thorough analysis! :roll:

And here's the thing - I'm really over whining from GOPers on this stuff. If the GOP don't like the ACA, great, let's see this easy, cheaper, more effective plan that covers more people for less money and helps the middle class without raising taxes or rationing care. You guys keep comparing the ACA to flying unicorns and I'm just waiting on the critics of ACA to show me their unicorns!

Seems that all the Republicans in Congress (and it goes without saying Trump is worthless on this) can do is throw rocks at what someone else comes up with but are too stupid or lazy or uninterested to do the hard work of coming up with a better alternative. Why would I care what the GOP in Congress think about healthcare at this point? They're completely worthless - at BEST they are arsonists whining about how the firefighters are dealing with the fires they set.

cash is king all that is needed is a national HSA system. with the only thing needed for insurance is hospital care.
you pay for all your sniffles, sneezes and cough's yourself.

doctors are already giving huge discounts for people that can pay in cash because it is cheaper for them to collect the cash upfront
than deal with government/insurance plans.

in fact they are discounting 80-90% on services and treatments.

 

[ludin]

OK, you said this: "Cost goes way up under Medicare."

I've never seen any data to support that conclusion. Here's an estimate of average monthly costs for supplemental plans, and the highest is $450/month, with most in the $300-350 range. I'm positive no one near 65 can buy a plan that covers what Medicare does for $400/month.

Cost of Supplemental Health Insurance for Seniors

But if you have data showing Medicare all in is more expensive than private insurance, you're welcome to cite it and prove me wrong. I've never seen it, never had a friend who retired complain about it - just the opposite - many count down the days to Medicare coverage, and I know my mother in law's OOP, and medicare is great for her. All the polling I've seen indicates seniors are very happy overall with Medicare.

yea i don't pay that now for full coverage insurance(medical, dental, and eye, and prescription)
PS that is on top of the 30-40% tax hike you are going to get.

so by the time you are done you are going to be paying 700+ dollars a month for coverage or more.
low information keeps people in the dark.

 

[Eriech]

yea i don't pay that now for full coverage insurance(medical, dental, and eye, and prescription)
PS that is on top of the 30-40% tax hike you are going to get.

so by the time you are done you are going to be paying 700+ dollars a month for coverage or more.
low information keeps people in the dark.

Would love to pay just 700 per month.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

 

[ludin]

Would love to pay just 700 per month.

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

that is more than 3x what i pay now.
so why would i want to pay for more expensive insurance.
worse coverage and less doctors?

why people hate their health i don't know.

i like my health which is why i avoid government crap care.

 

[washunut]

OK, you said this: "Cost goes way up under Medicare."

I've never seen any data to support that conclusion. Here's an estimate of average monthly costs for supplemental plans, and the highest is $450/month, with most in the $300-350 range. I'm positive no one near 65 can buy a plan that covers what Medicare does for $400/month.

Cost of Supplemental Health Insurance for Seniors

But if you have data showing Medicare all in is more expensive than private insurance, you're welcome to cite it and prove me wrong. I've never seen it, never had a friend who retired complain about it - just the opposite - many count down the days to Medicare coverage, and I know my mother in law's OOP, and medicare is great for her. All the polling I've seen indicates seniors are very happy overall with Medicare.

Not sure where you got the line you put in quotes. Either you did not bother to read what I really wrote or you are to blinded by silly politics to comprehend. I in fact am over 65, my spouse who is still working is not. The plan we get does not charge based on age but on employment.

Have a good day.

 

[mike2810]

Those people are complete morons, because every industrialized world has universal healthcare, except the US. A lot of functioning unicorns. Universal healthcare works, its not magical.

It just shows how dumb the opposition really are. And they only oppose because they have eaten pro corproate propaganda for decades

Would you explain how the other countries pay for the universal health care? imo, most Americans do not want higher taxes. You can only get so much from cooperate taxes and taxing the "rich" more.

 

[JasperL]

cash is king all that is needed is a national HSA system. with the only thing needed for insurance is hospital care.
you pay for all your sniffles, sneezes and cough's yourself.

LOL. There's a whole lot of VERY expensive healthcare going on between "sniffles" and being admitted to the hospital. Where do you come up with this nonsense? just for example, cancer treatments are generally (or at least often) outpatient care until the end, nearing death. If you think the average person can pay that cost OOP with cash, you don't know anyone well who has been treated for cancer.

doctors are already giving huge discounts for people that can pay in cash because it is cheaper for them to collect the cash upfront
than deal with government/insurance plans.

in fact they are discounting 80-90% on services and treatments.

Yeah, and as a nationwide plan for over 300 million people, should work fine... :roll:

 

[Conservative]

The ACA requires insurers to lower deductibles, co-pays, and other out-of-pocket spending for low income people so that they can afford to use their insurance. In return, the feds are supposed to reimburse those insurers for those additional expenses.

When Trump reneged on making those reimbursements in late 2017 insurers responded by jacking up premiums to recoup the lost revenue--that's part of the mechanism by which Trump triggered the largest premium jump the marketplaces have yet experienced.

That made for some weird dynamics in the markets but the truly odd part is that insurers are now winning back in court the funds Trump reneged on--revenue those insurers already recouped, largely at Uncle Sam's expense, through the Trump-induced premium spike. Talk about double dipping!

Courts hammer Trump for sabotaging Obamacare, in rulings that could cost the Treasury billions





What a tangled web.

OMG, the Treasury losing billions in revenue, how in the hell will the consumers, state, and local government's survive? You big govt. liberals are clueless about economic growht and activity always wanting someone else to pay for your personal responsibility issues

 

[Conservative]

LOL. There's a whole lot of VERY expensive healthcare going on between "sniffles" and being admitted to the hospital. Where do you come up with this nonsense? just for example, cancer treatments are generally (or at least often) outpatient care until the end, nearing death. If you think the average person can pay that cost OOP with cash, you don't know anyone well who has been treated for cancer.



Yeah, and as a nationwide plan for over 300 million people, should work fine... :roll:

Sure it would, in that liberal fantasy land you in which you live, 50 states, 50 different costs of living, millions employed in the medical field none of these resonate with you and others

 

[JasperL]

yea i don't pay that now for full coverage insurance(medical, dental, and eye, and prescription)
PS that is on top of the 30-40% tax hike you are going to get.

Because your employer pays for your insurance? I know you can't be near retirement and get medical, dental and eye and prescription for $400/month.

 

[Conservative]

Because your employer pays for your insurance? I know you can't be near retirement and get medical, dental and eye and prescription for $400/month.

Employers subsidize employee insurance as most don't fund entirely but the real question is what happens to private insurance should you get your wish of Medicare for ALL? where is the incentive for private businesses to even offer insurance?

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

Typical conservatives.. They got theirs through their employer, so to hell with everyone else. The days of compassionate conservatism is long gone.

Anyway my mother is 90, she pays about $250 a month for her supplemental. Which pays for about everything. she pays $5 here and there for prescriptions, etc.

If anyone thinks a 90 year old could get totally private insurance for $200-$300 a month is crazy.

 

[JasperL]

Employers subsidize employee insurance as most don't fund entirely but the real question is what happens to private insurance should you get your wish of Medicare for ALL? where is the incentive for private businesses to even offer insurance?

It's not my wish.

 

[ludin]

LOL. There's a whole lot of VERY expensive healthcare going on between "sniffles" and being admitted to the hospital. Where do you come up with this nonsense? just for example, cancer treatments are generally (or at least often) outpatient care until the end, nearing death. If you think the average person can pay that cost OOP with cash, you don't know anyone well who has been treated for cancer.

Cancer would be why you have an insurance plan. yet another person that doesn't read or have a clue what they are talking about or can honestly talk about the subject.
It isn't nonsense at all. it is actually very realistic and offers everyone medical coverage at a cheaper more affordable price while drastically reducing costs.

it is the same reason that your car insurance is only a few hundred dollars a month. you only use it if an accident happens.
if your car insurance had to pay for every oil or tire change you would see your insurance premium skyrocket through the roof.

Yeah, and as a nationwide plan for over 300 million people, should work fine... :roll:

why wouldn't it? doctors get paid up front saving them thousands of dollars a year.
60 to 70 cents out of every dollar you spend is administrative work which is mostly someone
calling the government or insurance company trying to get paid.

your drug prescriptions are so expensive because there is a middleman that ups the drug prices from the back end.
get rid of him and pharmacists could offer better pricing drugs to people. goodrx has taken off like a rocket because
they are offering cheaper more affordable prices that your insurance does sometimes.

this is all documented fact.

 

[ludin]

Typical conservatives.. They got theirs through their employer, so to hell with everyone else. The days of compassionate conservatism is long gone.

Anyway my mother is 90, she pays about $250 a month for her supplemental. Which pays for about everything. she pays $5 here and there for prescriptions, etc.

If anyone thinks a 90 year old could get totally private insurance for $200-$300 a month is crazy.

with medicare for all she will be paying 400-500 bucks a month more.

 

[ludin]

Because your employer pays for your insurance? I know you can't be near retirement and get medical, dental and eye and prescription for $400/month.

My employer pays some but i pay the other part. to cover my whole family medical
dental and eye is cheaper
than what my mother in law pays for her medicare supplemental plan.

so why do i want your crap higher costing more expensive plan that cuts out more than half the doctors in my area?
you don't offer me anything but worse care and higher costs.