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Could Obama become Veep?

Except when the Constitution forbids it.

There's a loophole, though... the 25th Amendment. All the Constitution forbids is his being elected President or Vice President. But there is more than one way to become Vice President (see 25th Amendment, Paragraph 2).... and once Vice President, the 25th Amendment is clear - the Vice President shall become President when the President is removed from office (see 25th Amendment, Paragraph 1).
 
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Why launch a constitutional challenge of a caretaker President who's a lame duck the second they take oath of office?


Because some perceive a conflict between 12A and 22A and, for that matter, 25A. And because some are, "but, but...OBAMA!" What makes you think he would be a lame duck caretaker?
 
Because some perceive a conflict between 12A and 22A and, for that matter, 25A. And because some are, "but, but...OBAMA!" What makes you think he would be a lame duck caretaker?

Because the only way he got to the Presidency would be if the elected Vice President was removed from office, then the elected President appointed him to fill the post - subject to a confirmation vote by both Houses of Congress - and subsequently that President was himself removed from office. This would imply a significant amount of turmoil in our government - by the time our hypothetical Obama got to be President, there would probably be significantly less than 4 years left on the term. Secondly, he would be constitutionally ineligible to run for re-election, so that's pretty much the definition of being a lame duck.
 
Because the only way he got to the Presidency would be if the elected Vice President was removed from office, then the elected President appointed him to fill the post - subject to a confirmation vote by both Houses of Congress - and subsequently that President was himself removed from office. This would imply a significant amount of turmoil in our government - by the time our hypothetical Obama got to be President, there would probably be significantly less than 4 years left on the term. Secondly, he would be constitutionally ineligible to run for re-election, so that's pretty much the definition of being a lame duck.


I agree neither Trump, nor Pence if he became President, would appoint Obama VP. And if they did, Congress would never confirm him. But since we're what-iffing outlandish scenarios, consider this one...

Democrats take Congress in the midterm. Obama runs for and wins a House seat, then is elected Speaker. Congress impeaches Trump. Pence becomes President and appoints a Republican VP whom the Democratic Congress fails to confirm. Pence is removed from office by whatever means and Obama becomes President. No, he couldn't run for reelection as President but he would have the remainder of the Trump/Pence term. "Lame duck caretaker" implies he would be ineffectual during that time. I disagree given he would have a Democratic Congress.

Again, HIGHLY improbable but not impossible. I still say it would trigger a constitutional challenge if it did happen.
 
If you can't be elected President, then you can't be elected Vice President - the last sentence of the 12th Amendment is the clincher there. The 22nd Amendment makes him constitutionally ineligible to be elected to the office.

That's your opinion and not one shared by constitutional lawyers.

The Constitution states that you cannot STAND for election as president if you've already served two terms ... not that you can't BE the president if you've already served two terms.


The 12th amendment doesn't list having already served two terms as president as a dis qualifier for being president

It gives the conditions to BE the president or vice president, not the conditions to stand for either position.
 
I agree neither Trump, nor Pence if he became President, would appoint Obama VP. And if they did, Congress would never confirm him. But since we're what-iffing outlandish scenarios, consider this one...

Democrats take Congress in the midterm. Obama runs for and wins a House seat, then is elected Speaker. Congress impeaches Trump. Pence becomes President and appoints a Republican VP whom the Democratic Congress fails to confirm. Pence is removed from office by whatever means and Obama becomes President. No, he couldn't run for reelection as President but he would have the remainder of the Trump/Pence term. "Lame duck caretaker" implies he would be ineffectual during that time. I disagree given he would have a Democratic Congress.

Again, HIGHLY improbable but not impossible. I still say it would trigger a constitutional challenge if it did happen.

As much as I like President Obama personally and think he's a fine human being of upstanding character, I'd suggest that probably no President since Grant has more experience at being an ineffective caretaker President than Obama. He came into office and put all of his political chips on getting a clap-trap, held together with baling wire and duct tape ACA passed and then spent his last 6 years essentially being a caretaker lame duck President. I still haven't figured out why he ran for re-election in 2012... he never even tried to do anything of significance during his second term. There's no reason to expect that an improbable sequel would be any different.
 
I'd be hugely surprised if he actually wanted to, but constitutionally, could he? I've heard arguments that he couldn't due to having already served 2 terms as President, but H.W Bush served 1 term as veep, 1 term as President, and ran for a 2nd term as President. I don't see how that was any different if he had won in '92. Am I missing something?

Although debated and never ruled on by the SCOTUS, it is technically possible. The constitution, the 22nd amendment limits any president to two terms. It doesn't limit how many terms a person can serve as VP. So anyone could serve 2 or 4 or 6 terms as VP or however many. Obama could indeed become a VP. But having served two terms as president, he wouldn't be in the line of succession. The 22nd amendment would prohibit him from becoming president if the president he was serving under died. Whomever was the Speaker of the house would bypass a VP Obama and become president under those circumstances.

Now there are those constitutional scholars who disagree. They state since the VP is next in line of succession that a two term president couldn't become VP because he is barred from succeeding a sitting president. So until the SCOTUS rules on it, I would say it is possible that a two term president could become VP, but as VP, he wouldn't be in the line of succession or be able to assume the duties of president.

That would also open another can of worms. G.H.W. Bush assumed the duties as president when Reagan was shot although not the office. A two term president probably wouldn't even be allowed to assume the duties of the president in a situation such as Reagan being shot. Again, that would be up to the SCOTUS. Hotly debated is that subject.
 
As much as I like President Obama personally and think he's a fine human being of upstanding character, I'd suggest that probably no President since Grant has more experience at being an ineffective caretaker President than Obama. He came into office and put all of his political chips on getting a clap-trap, held together with baling wire and duct tape ACA passed and then spent his last 6 years essentially being a caretaker lame duck President. I still haven't figured out why he ran for re-election in 2012... he never even tried to do anything of significance during his second term. There's no reason to expect that an improbable sequel would be any different.


While the ACA is far from perfect, I think it's better than nothing, which is what the Republicans have come up with so far. I'd prefer "Medicare for all" but that's a debate for another time. To be fair, the Democrats didn't have full control of Congress during those last six years of Obama's presidency. But I did say...

"Lame duck caretaker" implies he would be ineffectual during that time. I disagree given he would have a Democratic Congress.

I should have said he would have the time and, given a Democratic Congress, the potential to be effective. Whether he would be is another question.
 
While the ACA is far from perfect, I think it's better than nothing, which is what the Republicans have come up with so far. I'd prefer "Medicare for all" but that's a debate for another time. To be fair, the Democrats didn't have full control of Congress during those last six years of Obama's presidency. But I did say...



I should have said he would have the time and, given a Democratic Congress, the potential to be effective. Whether he would be is another question.

My own take on it is that if we can spend $500 Billion+ a year on protecting our people from foreign invasion, we can damn well spend a lot less on protecting our people from ill health. I don't fault Obama for making healthcare a priority... what I fault him for is making it THE priority. He ought to have concentrated on getting the economy back on it's feet right out of the gate - cutting taxes on everyone making less than $200,000 and raising them for everyone making more, just as he promised during the 2008 campaign. Whatever happened to that idea? And infrastructure investment. Once he did that and spurred consumer demand, then it would have given him the momentum and political capital to tackle healthcare in a meaningful fashion. But like you say, that's another debate.

The point is that he had a Democratic Congress coming into office... and he had the momentum from a landslide win, and yet he was still ineffectual. Essentially, he was in the same position that FDR was when he came into office. He could have launched his own version of the New Deal. But he squandered the opportunity. He was a weak, listless political giant who allowed himself to be tied down by a bunch of Lilliputians. Take the Garland nomination to the Supreme Court as an example. Mitch McConnell once boasted that his proudest moment as a Senator was when he had the temerity to walk into the Oval Office and tell the President of the United States that his nominee wasn't going to get a hearing, let alone a vote. Take that in for a second... Merrick Garland was the most experienced nominee ever nominated for a Supreme Court position in the history of the country. He wasn't an ideologically controversial choice. He was a solid, experienced centrist choice.

And what did the President do? He meekly accepted it.

Bull****. What he should have done was bide his time until the 2016 election campaign was underway and then have Harry Reid and Joe Biden march into one of those Senate pro forma sessions, have the Vice President take the gavel from whatever Republican Senator occupied the chair, and then have Senator Reid make a point of order that a quorum wasn't present. Until a quorum could be mustered, then the Senate would be in a de facto recess. Do that 3 times, and the way would have been cleared for Obama to give Judge Garland and every other judicial nominee being obstructed by the Republicans a recess appointment. He could have had a big ol' swearing in the East Room. And if the Republicans wanted to stop it, they would have had to take 18 out of the 22 Senators they had running for re-election off the campaign trail every three days to come to Washington and answer the roll every time Reid made a point of order that a quorum wasn't present.

That's hardball. That's what President Obama could have done. That's what he should have done. Harry Truman would have done it. Hell, Harry Truman once gave the same Judge three separate recess appointments when the Republicans and Southern Democrats refused to give him a vote. The same with Ike and JFK too, whenever they nominated pro-civil rights Judges in the South and the Senate Judiciary Committee (chaired by Senator Eastland (D-MS)) refused to give them a hearing. So why didn't Obama?

Because he didn't have game. For all his basketball savvy, he never figured out that you've got to throw an occasional elbow under the rim if you want any respect.
 
That's your opinion and not one shared by constitutional lawyers.

The Constitution states that you cannot STAND for election as president if you've already served two terms ... not that you can't BE the president if you've already served two terms.


The 12th amendment doesn't list having already served two terms as president as a dis qualifier for being president

It gives the conditions to BE the president or vice president, not the conditions to stand for either position.

No, the 12th Amendment doesn't bar him from being elected President or Vice President. But read the last sentence of the 12th Amendment: "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." The 22nd Amendment makes him constitutionally ineligible to be elected to the office of President, and thus ineligible to be elected Vice President. However, as has been pointed out - the 12th and 22nd Amendments only cover election to the offices... and the 25th Amendment makes no restriction on who may be nominated Vice President in the case of vacancy.
 
There should be an amendment that prohibits a nut like Obama even serving one term
 
No, the 12th Amendment doesn't bar him from being elected President or Vice President. But read the last sentence of the 12th Amendment: "But no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States." The 22nd Amendment makes him constitutionally ineligible to be elected to the office of President, and thus ineligible to be elected Vice President. However, as has been pointed out - the 12th and 22nd Amendments only cover election to the offices... and the 25th Amendment makes no restriction on who may be nominated Vice President in the case of vacancy.


The 22nd amendment doesn't say that a former two term president cannot be president in the future. It says he/she cannot STAND for election for president.

Obama is not constitutionally ineligible to be president of the USA. He is constitutionally prohibited from standing for election to be PotUSA.


Likewise there's nothing to stop a former two term president from standing as a congressman. If he/she won election to the house, there's nothing to stop him/her from being elected Speaker of the House. And should the president and VP be incapacitated, there's nothing to stop a former two term president becoming president again - as detailed in The Constitution.
 
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The 22nd amendment doesn't say that a former two term president cannot be president in the future. It says he/she cannot STAND for election for president.

Obama is not constitutionally ineligible to be president of the USA. He is constitutionally prohibited from standing for election to be PotUSA.


Likewise there's nothing to stop a former two term president from standing as a congressman. If he/she won election to the house, there's nothing to stop him/her from being elected Speaker of the House. And should the president and VP be incapacitated, there's nothing to stop a former two term president becoming president again - as detailed in The Constitution.

I didn't say he was constitutionally ineligible to be President - what I said was that he was constitutionally ineligible to be elected President (or Vice President).

I don't think there is any constitutional barrier to succeeding to the Presidency via being an appointed Vice President (through the 25th Amendment) or any spot in the line of succession.
 
It is the 12th Amendment. The last sentence of it is:

That pretty well settles the question doesn't it. Well done. :)

And if we agree there should be term limits for the President, it was a smart addition to prevent an over powerful, engineered and protected regime from just switching back and forth in those positions.

Lordy, but I wish Constitution, competently taught, was a required subject in highschool and college.
 
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Why?

He's one of the top four greatest presidents in living memory.

Top Four:

FDR
JFK
Clinton
Obama.

I'd put Obama more on the same level as Carter and Bush, Sr. ... a good and decent man who ended up getting pushed around by Congress because he was too good and decent to wheel and deal and knock some heads together. He should have been a one-term President.
 
Amendment XXII only mentions 'elected' & it does not mention VP so, I would disagree ..........

The 12th Amendment to the Constitution states that "no person constitutionally ineligible to the office of President shall be eligible to that of Vice-President of the United States.".


That should be clear enough. "Hussein" cannot be Vice president after serving two terms as president.
 
Who wants Obama back?

Granted I'd take him over The Donald or Pence but how screwed up is it if Dems cant come up with something better so we can move forward.
 
Yes, he could. And Joe Biden could be President, HillBill could be SOS again because nothing in law or Constitution prevents any of it.

Biden could be president, however "Hussein" cannot be vice president. And in any case, Biden is too stupid to be president.
 
I didn't say he was constitutionally ineligible to be President - what I said was that he was constitutionally ineligible to be elected President (or Vice President).

I don't think there is any constitutional barrier to succeeding to the Presidency via being an appointed Vice President (through the 25th Amendment) or any spot in the line of succession.


You're kind of contradicting yourself there.

I've read a few articles about this and it seems that the Constitution doesn't say a former two term president cannot stand for election as Vice President. They are two separate offices.


The Constitution states the eligibility criteria to be president. Not having already served two terms is not amongst the disqualifies.


So Obama CAN be president again, he just can't stand for election for that office.
 
Biden could be president, however "Hussein" cannot be vice president. And in any case, Biden is too stupid to be president.

Intelligence Or lack of) is not a qualification to be PotUSA.

The Constitution doen't specify any minimum education level either.
 
You're kind of contradicting yourself there.

I've read a few articles about this and it seems that the Constitution doesn't say a former two term president cannot stand for election as Vice President. They are two separate offices.


The Constitution states the eligibility criteria to be president. Not having already served two terms is not amongst the disqualifies.


So Obama CAN be president again, he just can't stand for election for that office.

The 12th Amendment covers election to the Vice Presidency... it's last sentence is pretty explicit as far as that goes. If you can't be elected President, then you can't be elected Vice President.
 
I'd put Obama more on the same level as Carter and Bush, Sr. ... a good and decent man who ended up getting pushed around by Congress because he was too good and decent to wheel and deal and knock some heads together. He should have been a one-term President.

Obama should have stood as VP to Hilary in 2008 and 2012. Then stood for PotUSA in 2016.

That way he'd have had 8 years experience in the White House before taking on the big job himself.
 
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