'Corruption' of the earliest New Testament texts by the orthodox Church.

[Daisy]

Nope.

Central to being a "Christian" is accepting Jesus was/is god.

You and your church don't therefore you're not Christians.


Jesus or "Isa ibn Maryam" is listed as a prophet in the Bible and Muslims follow his teachings...or didn't you know tha?
And yet you wouldn't call followers of Islam to be "Christians" would you?


You don't even know what a Christian is. You are not one if you believe the teachings of the JW.

What chapter and verse is that in?:roll:

The only thing you know about are apostate Christians...

 

[Rich2018]

What chapter and verse is that in?:roll:

The only thing you know about are apostate Christians...

Don't tell me you keep a copy of the Koran?

"...In Islam, ʿIsa ibn Maryam (Jesus, son of Mary), is understood to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God...the Arabic term for Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation: Injīl (Arabic for "the gospel")...."



Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia


References:
1. Glasse, Cyril (2001). The new encyclopedia of Islam, with introduction by Huston Smith (revised edition). Walnut Creek, CA: AltaMira Press. p. 239. ISBN 9780759101906.
2. McDowell, Jim, Josh; Walker, Jim (2002). Understanding Islam and Christianity: Beliefs That Separate Us and How to Talk About Them. Euguen, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers. p. 12. ISBN 9780736949910.
3. The Oxford Dictionary of Islam, p.158

 

[Daisy]

Don't tell me you keep a copy of the Koran?

"...In Islam, ʿIsa ibn Maryam (Jesus, son of Mary), is understood to be the penultimate prophet and messenger of God...the Arabic term for Messiah (Christ), sent to guide the Children of Israel with a new revelation: Injīl (Arabic for "the gospel")...."



Jesus in Islam - Wikipedia


References:
1. Glasse, Cyril (2001). The new encyclopedia of Islam, with introduction by Huston Smith (revised edition). Walnut Creek, CA: AltaMira Press. p. 239. ISBN 9780759101906.
2. McDowell, Jim, Josh; Walker, Jim (2002). Understanding Islam and Christianity: Beliefs That Separate Us and How to Talk About Them. Euguen, Oregon: Harvest House Publishers. p. 12. ISBN 9780736949910.
3. The Oxford Dictionary of Islam, p.158

Can't come up with one, huh...

 

[Rich2018]

Can't come up with one, huh...

Can you not read ? The references are there...if you have a copy of the Koran, I'm sure they'll give you the chapter and verse of it.
(or do you actually expect me or anyone else to believe you have a copy of the Koran or have read that Wiki ref page? If you have read the Koran, you clearly have never read the teachings of their prophet Jesus).


The point is that Christians have their teachings of Jesus in their holy scripture (you probably don't believe the bit about Jesus' teaching to sell all your worldly goods in order to enter a heaven you don't believe exists yet)

JW believe the teachings from their holy script

Muslims believe their teachings from Jesus, from their holy script.


You say they're both wrong, they say you're wrong.


Christians believe Jesus is god from god and you do not.
QED: You are not a Christian....and neither are followers of the Koran

 

[tosca1]

Craig makes an assertion about something he "remembered" from listening to a radio interview with Ehrman, yet when the two men debated face to face, for some reason Craig couldn't or didn't - failed to - make this statement. He seems to find it much easier to 'debate' Prof. Ehrman when Bart isn't present.

There's no stopping Ehrman to refute what Craig had claimed, right? They don't need a debate for it!

Find Ehrman's refutation on it, and post it here! There should be one, if it isn't true - after all, the video above, slams Ehrman as a fraud!


Ehrman sounds like Dawkins all over again!
They both sold out their credibility to make money from the anti-Christians. :lol:

 

[tosca1]

if scholars accept the classical texts as accurate, then why not accept the New Testament as accurate?

Oh maybe because the "classical texts" are not used to support any religious beliefs, rather they are used by historians in their attempts to gain some idea of ancient societies and philosophy.

:roll:


Same thing! Both are promoting ideas!

Historians will present the ideas they gain about ancient societies and philosophy, right? Same thing with ideology!

The same rule that applies to them should apply to the New Testament - especially so with the New Testament, since the New Testament (Bible),
is one of the most studied documents by scholars!



As my articles above had explained, there is a consensus among scholars of the accuracy of the New Testament!

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability


There are presently 5,686 Greek manuscripts in existence today for the New Testament.1 If we were to compare the number of New Testament manuscripts to other ancient writings, we find that the New Testament manuscripts far outweigh the others in quantity.

Almost all biblical scholars agree that the New Testament documents were all written before the close of the First Century. If Jesus was crucified in A.D. 30., then that means the entire New Testament was completed within 70 years. This is important because it means there were plenty of people around when the New Testament documents were penned--people who could have contested the writings. In other words, those who wrote the documents knew that if they were inaccurate, plenty of people would have pointed it out. But, we have absolutely no ancient documents contemporary with the First Century that contest the New Testament texts.

Furthermore, another important aspect of this discussion is the fact that we have a fragment of the gospel of John that dates back to around 29 years from the original writing (John Rylands Papyri A.D. 125). This is extremely close to the original writing date. This is simply unheard of in any other ancient writing, and it demonstrates that the Gospel of John is a First Century document.

Below is a chart with some of the oldest extant New Testament manuscripts compared to when they were originally penned.

Manuscript evidence for superior New Testament reliability | CARM.org

 

[tosca1]

Craig makes an assertion about something he "remembered" from listening to a radio interview with Ehrman, yet when the two men debated face to face, for some reason Craig couldn't or didn't - failed to - make this statement. He seems to find it much easier to 'debate' Prof. Ehrman when Bart isn't present.

Speaking of that debate between Craig and Ehrman, here's a feedback on that:

Craig, of course, continually returns to his 'four facts' argument and reminds the attending audience that they have not been adequately refuted. Given Ehrman’s inability to diffuse the ‘four facts’ argument, it seems that the issue of the debate sadly came down to one of professional methodology.

On the one hand, we have a philosopher, adhering to the laws of logic and the fundamental notion of following the evidence where it leads,

while on the other a historian willing to play by rules that satisfy operating in a bubble but seem almost absurd when exposed to the scrutiny of common sense.

Brief Comments on the Recent Craig-Ehrman Debate | The Invisible Things

 

[RAMOSS]

Wrong...he had nothing to do with my beliefs...his doctrines of the trinity, hellfire, and the immortal soul are all false...



Canon — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

I want you to explain why the different Christian sects have a different number of books in the Canon. If it's closed, why does the Catholics have 72 books, the Ethiopian orthodox have over 80, and the Mormons use their extra books. Use those facts and reconciliate it with the watchtowers claims.

 

[Daisy]

I want you to explain why the different Christian sects have a different number of books in the Canon. If it's closed, why does the Catholics have 72 books, the Ethiopian orthodox have over 80, and the Mormons use their extra books. Use those facts and reconciliate it with the watchtowers claims.

lol...you know as well as I do what the Apocryphal books are and why they are not included in the Bible of 66 books...they do not bear evidence of having been inspired by Jehovah God...

 

[Daisy]

Can you not read ? The references are there...if you have a copy of the Koran, I'm sure they'll give you the chapter and verse of it.
(or do you actually expect me or anyone else to believe you have a copy of the Koran or have read that Wiki ref page? If you have read the Koran, you clearly have never read the teachings of their prophet Jesus).


The point is that Christians have their teachings of Jesus in their holy scripture (you probably don't believe the bit about Jesus' teaching to sell all your worldly goods in order to enter a heaven you don't believe exists yet)

JW believe the teachings from their holy script

Muslims believe their teachings from Jesus, from their holy script.


You say they're both wrong, they say you're wrong.


Christians believe Jesus is god from god and you do not.
QED: You are not a Christian....and neither are followers of the Koran

Can't you read? I said I am a Christian so please show me chapter and verse in the Christian Greek Scriptures that claim Jesus is God...I'll give you a clue...there's no such scripture...

 

[RAMOSS]

lol...you know as well as I do what the Apocryphal books are and why they are not included in the Bible of 66 books...they do not bear evidence of having been inspired by Jehovah God...

Why, that is your excuse. The Catholics look at it differently. So does the Ethopitan Orthodox Church. Both those Christian sects are a lot older than the protestants.

Your claim they weren't inspired by God God is not supported, as well as your claim the 66 books are. You say lots of things you can not show to be true.

 

[Daisy]

Why, that is your excuse. The Catholics look at it differently. So does the Ethopitan Orthodox Church. Both those Christian sects are a lot older than the protestants.

Your claim they weren't inspired by God God is not supported, as well as your claim the 66 books are. You say lots of things you can not show to be true.

Why, I don't care...

 

[RAMOSS]

Why, I don't care...

Of course you don't.

 

[Rich2018]

Can't you read? I said I am a Christian so please show me chapter and verse in the Christian Greek Scriptures that claim Jesus is God...I'll give you a clue...there's no such scripture...

So said that, but you are NOT a Christian because you deny the nature of Christ as a god. Christians view him as god-from-god.

It is a basic belief of Christianity the your and your church deny.


Do you still need the chapter and verse of the Koran that speaks of Jesus' teachings...and yet Muslims admit they are NOT Christians ?


Bible phrases that show Jesus was/is divine:

John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

John 1:14, "And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth."

John 5:18, "For this cause therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God."

John 8:24, "I said therefore to you, that you shall die in your sins; for unless you believe that I am He, you shall die in your sins."

John 8:58, "Jesus said to them, 'Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I am.'"

Exodus 3:14, "And God said to Moses, 'I AM WHO I AM'; and He said, Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, ‘I AM has sent me to you.’"

John 10:30-33, "I and the Father are one." 31 The Jews took up stones again to stone Him. 32 Jesus answered them, "I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?" 33 The Jews answered Him, "For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God."

John 20:28, "Thomas answered and said to Him, "My Lord and my God!"

Col. 2:9, "For in Him all the fullness of Deity dwells in bodily form."

Phil. 2:5-8, "Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be grasped, 7 but emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross. 9 Therefore also God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of those who are in heaven, and on earth, and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."

Heb. 1:8, "But of the Son He says, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever, and the righteous scepter is the scepter of His kingdom."

Quoted from Psalm 45:6, "Thy throne, O God, is forever and ever; a scepter of uprightness is the scepter of Thy kingdom."


Jesus is worshipped

Matt. 4:10, "Then Jesus said to him, 'Begone, Satan! For it is written, "You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only."’

Matt. 2:2, "Where is He who has been born King of the Jews? For we saw His star in the east, and have come to worship Him."

Matt. 2:11, "And they came into the house and saw the Child with Mary His mother; and they fell down and worshiped Him; and opening their treasures they presented to Him gifts of gold and frankincense and myrrh."

Matt. 14:33, "And those who were in the boat worshiped Him, saying, "You are certainly God’s Son!"

Matt. 28:9, "And behold, Jesus met them and greeted them. And they came up and took hold of His feet and worshiped Him."

John 9:35-38, "Jesus heard that they had put him out; and finding him, He said, "Do you believe in the Son of Man?" 36 He answered and said, "And who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?" 37 Jesus said to him, "You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you." And he said, "Lord, I believe." And he worshiped Him."

Heb. 1:6, "And when He again brings the first-born into the world, He says, 'And let all the angels of God worship Him.'"



Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine | CARM.org

 

[Rich2018]

Jesus is prayed to

1. Acts 7:55-60, "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58 And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60 And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

2. 1 Cor. 1:1-2, "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." (The phrase, "to call upon the name of the Lord" is a phrase used to designate prayer).

2.1 Kings 18:24, "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people answered and said, "That is a good idea."

2.2 Zech. 13:9, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’"

3. Rom. 10:13-14, "for 'whoever will call upon the name of the Lord' will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Paul is speaking of calling upon Jesus. (The phrase "Call upon the name of the Lord" is a quote from Joel 2:32).
Joel 2:32, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (LORD here is YHWH, the name of God as revealed in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, this quote, dealing with God Himself is attributed to Jesus).

First and Last

Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."
Rev. 1:17-18, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

Does your Bible refer to Jesus' pronoun He with a capital "H" ?



Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine | CARM.org

 

[Rich2018]

Is that enough scripture for you ?


Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine | CARM.org

 

[RAMOSS]

Jesus is prayed to

1. Acts 7:55-60, "But being full of the Holy Spirit, he gazed intently into heaven and saw the glory of God, and Jesus standing at the right hand of God; 56 and he said, "Behold, I see the heavens opened up and the Son of Man standing at the right hand of God." 57 But they cried out with a loud voice, and covered their ears, and they rushed upon him with one impulse. 58 And when they had driven him out of the city, they began stoning him, and the witnesses laid aside their robes at the feet of a young man named Saul. 59 And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" 60 And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."

2. 1 Cor. 1:1-2, "Paul, called as an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother, 2 to the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctified in Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours." (The phrase, "to call upon the name of the Lord" is a phrase used to designate prayer).

2.1 Kings 18:24, "Then you call on the name of your god, and I will call on the name of the Lord, and the God who answers by fire, He is God." And all the people answered and said, "That is a good idea."

2.2 Zech. 13:9, "And I will bring the third part through the fire, refine them as silver is refined, and test them as gold is tested. They will call on My name, and I will answer them; I will say, ‘They are My people,’ and they will say, ‘The Lord is my God.’"

3. Rom. 10:13-14, "for 'whoever will call upon the name of the Lord' will be saved." 14 How then shall they call upon Him in whom they have not believed? And how shall they believe in Him whom they have not heard?" (Paul is speaking of calling upon Jesus. (The phrase "Call upon the name of the Lord" is a quote from Joel 2:32).
Joel 2:32, "And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call." (LORD here is YHWH, the name of God as revealed in Exodus 3:14. Therefore, this quote, dealing with God Himself is attributed to Jesus).

First and Last

Isaiah 44:6, "Thus says the Lord, the King of Israel and his Redeemer, the Lord of hosts: ‘I am the first and I am the last, and there is no God besides Me."
Rev. 1:17-18, "Do not be afraid; I am the first and the last, 18 and the living One; and I was dead, and behold, I am alive forevermore, and I have the keys of death and of Hades."

Does your Bible refer to Jesus' pronoun He with a capital "H" ?



Bible verses that show Jesus is Divine | CARM.org

Horrible horrible list. Neither the Isaiah or the Exodus phrases have anything to do with Jesus. When it comes to John, it ignorings Philo of Alexandra's philosophy about what 'Logos' is.

 

[Daisy]

I have never denied Jesus' divinity...evidently you don't understand the difference, among many other things about Christianity, you're out of your league...same old tired arguments, yet not one of those say Jesus is God...in fact, Jesus himself said...

"I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am." John 14:28

On numerous occasions Jesus expressed his inferiority and subordination to his Father...Mattew 4:9, 10; 20:23; Luke 22:41, 42; John 5:19; 8:42; 13:16...even after Jesus’ ascension into heaven his apostles continued to present the same picture.​..1Corinthians 11:3; 15:20, 24-28; 1 Peter 1:3; 1 John 2:1; 4:9, 10...

As to John 20:28..

Jesus is a god. “God” means a strong one. Christ is called “The mighty God” at Isaiah 9:6, “a god” at John 1:1 (NW), and “the only-begotten god” at John 1:18 (NW). Jehovah is not the only god or strong one. The very fact that he is called the Almighty God indicates that there are other gods not so mighty, not almighty like him. So Thomas could call Jesus God, but not THE God, and three verses later Jesus is called “the Son of God,” as we read (NW): “But these have been written down that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ the Son of God, and that, because of believing, you may have life by means of his name.” Joh 20:29-31 So there was no objection to John’s reporting that Thomas addressed Jesus as a deity, and certainly John does not say that Thomas’ address to Jesus was to make us believe that Jesus was The God, but says it was to make us believe Jesus was God’s Son. In this same chapter (Joh 20:17, NW) Jesus said: “I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.” He was not ascending to himself.

Questions From Readers — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Rich2018]

I have never denied Jesus' divinity...

Yes you have and do.

Divine, in Jesus' context means he is god.

God, for Christians, is divisible.

Jesus is worshiped by Christians.


To others, like Muslims, he carries god's message and teachings, he is a holy prophet of god, but he is NOT divine himself.

 

[Daisy]

Yes you have and do.

Divine, in Jesus' context means he is god.

God, for Christians, is divisible.

Jesus is worshiped by Christians.


To others, like Muslims, he carries god's message and teachings, he is a holy prophet of god, but he is NOT divine himself.

That is a lie...we're done...your ignorance on the subject is pathetic...

 

[Rich2018]

What chapter and verse is that in?:roll:

I asked for you:


"4:171 - Jesus Christ the son of Mary was no more than a messenger of Allah....say not 'Trinity.
5:72 - They do blaspheme who say Allah is Christ the son of Mary.
5:73 - They do blaspheme who say Allah in one of three in a trinity.
6:101 - How can God have a son if he has no partner?.
17:111 - Allah, who begets no son.
19:30 - He [Jesus] said: Surely I am a servant of Allah; He has given me the Book and made me a prophet.
19:35 - It befits not (the Majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son.
19:88-89 - They say: "(Allah) Most Gracious has begotten a son. Indeed ye have put forth a thing most monstrous"!"


Would those chapter a verses suffice ?

 

[Rich2018]

That is a lie...we're done...your ignorance on the subject is pathetic...

No, your ignorance on your OWN religion is truly astonishing.

Has a real Christian ever admitted to you that you are a Christian also ?

 

[Somerville]

By the end of the second century there was no question but that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was closed, and we find such ones as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian recognizing the writings comprising the Christian Scriptures as carrying authority equal to that of the Hebrew Scriptures. Irenaeus in appealing to the Scriptures makes no fewer than 200 quotations from Paul’s letters. Clement says he will answer his opponents by “the Scriptures which we believe are valid from their omnipotent authority,” that is, “by the law and the prophets, and besides by the blessed Gospel.”​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. II, p. 409, “The Stromata, or Miscellanies.”

Ken Berding, an associate professor whose field of study is the Christian Greek Scriptures, gives this comment about how the canon emerged: “The church did not establish a canon of its choosing; it is more proper to speak of the church recognizing the books that Christians had always considered to be an authoritative Word from God.”

Canon — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

For some reason, oh I don't know - maybe the historical record - the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was NOT closed by the end of the second century. The earliest evidence for my saying this might be items like the Codex Sinaiticus and the writings, that we have of early church fathers up to and even after the Council of Nicaea in 325. No evidence exists to indicate that a formal canon had been established by the end of the 2nd century. In 367, Athanasius of Alexandria did provide a list of exactly the same books that would later become the New Testament canon. The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) was the Council of Rome, held by Pope Damasus I (382). A second meeting was held at the Council of Hippo (393) reaffirming the previous council list. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Second Council of Carthage (419). It was only following the 419 Council that Revelation was judged to be canonical. The Codex Sinaiticus has the Shepherd of Hermas and the Epistle of Barnabas in the New Testament which were later judged to be non-canonical.

 

[Daisy]

For some reason, oh I don't know - maybe the historical record - the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was NOT closed by the end of the second century. The earliest evidence for my saying this might be items like the Codex Sinaiticus and the writings, that we have of early church fathers up to and even after the Council of Nicaea in 325. No evidence exists to indicate that a formal canon had been established by the end of the 2nd century. In 367, Athanasius of Alexandria did provide a list of exactly the same books that would later become the New Testament canon. The first council that accepted the present Catholic canon (the Canon of Trent) was the Council of Rome, held by Pope Damasus I (382). A second meeting was held at the Council of Hippo (393) reaffirming the previous council list. A brief summary of the acts was read at and accepted by the Council of Carthage (397) and the Second Council of Carthage (419). It was only following the 419 Council that Revelation was judged to be canonical. The Codex Sinaiticus has the Shepherd of Hermas and the Epistle of Barnabas in the New Testament which were later judged to be non-canonical.

And others disagree...

The Jewish historian Josephus, in answering opponents in his work Against Apion (I, 38-40 [8]) around the year 100 C.E., confirms that by then the canon of the Hebrew Scriptures had been fixed for a long time. He wrote: “We do not possess myriads of inconsistent books, conflicting with each other. Our books, those which are justly accredited, are but two and twenty, and contain the record of all time. Of these, five are the books of Moses, comprising the laws and the traditional history from the birth of man down to the death of the lawgiver. . . . From the death of Moses until Artaxerxes, who succeeded Xerxes as king of Persia, the prophets subsequent to Moses wrote the history of the events of their own times in thirteen books. The remaining four books contain hymns to God and precepts for the conduct of human life.”

Outside the Scriptures themselves there is evidence that, as early as 90-100 C.E., at least ten of Paul’s letters were collected together. It is certain that at an early date Christians were gathering together the inspired Christian writings. We read that “near the close of the 1st cent., Clement bishop of Rome was acquainted with Paul’s letter to the church at Corinth. After him, the letters of both Ignatius bishop of Antioch and Polycarp bishop of Smyrna attest the dissemination of the Pauline letters by the second decade of the 2nd century.” (The International Standard Bible Encyclopedia, edited by G. W. Bromiley, 1979, Vol. 1, p. 603) These were all early writers​—Clement of Rome (30?-100? C.E.), Polycarp (69?-155? C.E.), and Ignatius of Antioch (late 1st and early 2nd centuries C.E.)​—who wove in quotations and extracts from various books of the Christian Greek Scriptures, showing their acquaintance with such canonical writings. Justin Martyr (died c. 165 C.E.) in his “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (XLIX), used the expression “it is written” when quoting from Matthew, in the same way the Gospels themselves do when referring to the Hebrew Scriptures. The same is also true in an earlier anonymous work, “The Epistle of Barnabas” (IV). Justin Martyr in “The First Apology” (LXVI, LXVII) calls the “memoirs of the apostles” “Gospels.”​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 220, 139, By the end of the second century there was no question but that the canon of the Christian Greek Scriptures was closed, and we find such ones as Irenaeus, Clement of Alexandria, and Tertullian recognizing the writings comprising the Christian Scriptures as carrying authority equal to that of the Hebrew Scriptures. Irenaeus in appealing to the Scriptures makes no fewer than 200 quotations from Paul’s letters. Clement says he will answer his opponents by “the Scriptures which we believe are valid from their omnipotent authority,” that is, “by the law and the prophets, and besides by the blessed Gospel.”​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. II, p. 409, “The Stromata, or Miscellanies.”

Canon — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Somerville]

No, it was not...the canon was already established by the 2nd century, long before Constantine came on the scene...you don't know your history...

ustin Martyr (died c. 165 C.E.) in his “Dialogue With Trypho, a Jew” (XLIX), used the expression “it is written” when quoting from Matthew, in the same way the Gospels themselves do when referring to the Hebrew Scriptures. The same is also true in an earlier anonymous work, “The Epistle of Barnabas” (IV). Justin Martyr in “The First Apology” (LXVI, LXVII) calls the “memoirs of the apostles” “Gospels.”​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, Vol. I, pp. 220, 139, 185, 186.

Theophilus of Antioch (2nd century C.E.) declared: “Concerning the righteousness which the law enjoined, confirmatory utterances are found both with the prophets and in the Gospels, because they all spoke inspired by one Spirit of God.” Theophilus then uses such expressions as ‘says the Gospel’ (quoting Mt 5:28, 32, 44, 46; 6:3) and “the divine word gives us instructions” (quoting 1Ti 2:2 and Ro 13:7, 8).​—The Ante-Nicene Fathers, 1962, Vol. II, pp. 114, 115, “Theophilus to Autolycus” (XII, XIII).

Canon — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Funny it is that Elvira is using the Watchtower Online Library as support for claims about the canonicity of various books found in today's New Testament.

In the "Dialogue with Trypho", Justin Martyr never names the source for his words, though some of what Justin supposedly says to Trypho may be found in Matthew 21:12-13, there are more words than we can read in Matthew.

For He appeared distasteful to you when He cried among you, 'It is written, My house is the house of prayer; but ye have made it a den of thieves!' He overthrew also the tables of the money-changers in the temple, and exclaimed, 'Woe unto you, Scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye pay tithe of mint and rue, but do not observe the love of God and justice. Ye whited sepulchres! appearing beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones.' And to the Scribes, 'Woe unto you, Scribes! for ye have the keys, and ye do not enter in yourselves, and them that are entering in ye hinder; ye blind guides!'​

A passage that I found rather interesting, since Justin Martyr is often seen as an early Church father with great influence on the beliefs of the 2nd century Church is the following.

CHAPTER LVI -- GOD WHO APPEARED TO MOSES IS DISTINGUISHED FROM GOD THE FATHER.

"Moses, then, the blessed and faithful servant of God, declares that He who appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mamre is God, sent with the two angels in His company to judge Sodom by Another who remains ever in the supercelestial places, invisible to all men, holding personal intercourse with none, whom we believe to be Maker and Father of all things; for he speaks thus: 'God appeared to him under the oak in Mamre, as he sat at his tent-door at noontide. And lifting up his eyes, he saw, and behold, three men stood before him; and when he saw them, he ran to meet them from the door of his tent; and he bowed himself toward the ground, and said;' 'Abraham got up early in the morning to the place where he stood before the Lord: and he looked toward Sodom and Gomorrah, and toward the adjacent country, and beheld, and, lo, a flame went up from the earth, like the smoke of a furnace.'" And when I had made an end of quoting these words, I asked them if they had understood them.

And they said they had understood them, but that the passages adduced brought forward no proof that there is any other God or Lord, or that the Holy Spirit says so, besides the Maker of all things.

Then I replied, "I shall attempt to persuade you, since you have understood the Scriptures,[of the truth] of what I say, that there is, and that there is said to be, another God and Lord subject to the Maker of all things; who is also called an Angel, because He announces to men whatsoever the Maker of all things--above whom there is no other God--wishes to announce to them." And quoting once more the previous passage, I asked Trypho, "Do you think that God appeared to Abraham under the oak in Mature, as the Scripture asserts?"

He said, "Assuredly."

"Was He one of those three," I said, "whom Abraham saw, and whom the Holy Spirit of prophecy describes as men?"

He said, "No; but God appeared to him, before the vision of the three. Then those three whom the Scripture calls men, were angels; two of them sent to destroy Sodom, and one to announce the joyful tidings to Sarah, that she would bear a son; for which cause he was sent, and having accomplished his errand, went away."​

Justin saying to Trypho that there are two Gods, one superior to the other, is a basic premise of the Marcionites.