Cops tase 11 year old

[Gaius46]

Why do you contend that?

Seriously.. why do you think that it should be easy for a person to restrain an 11 year old.. who does NOT want to be restrained and may panic or fight.. without potential for injury to the 11 year old.

And so you're suggesting that tackling or tasing her carries a lower risk of injury to her than say just wrapping her in a bear hug and pinning her arms to her sides? An 11 year girl just isn't all that strong and absent a weapon represents no kind of real threat to the cop.

Certainly tasing her subdues her with zero risk to the cop but frankly zero risk to the cop is not the goal or else we'd just have cops shoot everyone.

 

[Doc91478]

So ANY and EVERY child is to be treated as a potential killer now? Like I said, nuts. :screwy

I guess if they're committing crimes they should be considered potentially dangerous.

 

[jaeger19]

You are mischaracterizing my posts in a very defensive manner. For example, I never ever wrote I saw 'no danger' from cops restraining her.

If that's all you can do..lie...please desist.

Oh stop!..so now you are accusing me of "lying".. what a load of horsecrap...

You are just getting upset because I presented facts and research and you have what"? .. nothing.

When you want to have an actual logical discussion.. I am available.. till then.. eace

 

[jaeger19]

And so you're suggesting that tackling or tasing her carries a lower risk of injury to her than say just wrapping her in a bear hug and pinning her arms to her sides? An 11 year girl just isn't all that strong and absent a weapon represents no kind of real threat to the cop.

Certainly tasing her subdues her with zero risk to the cop but frankly zero risk to the cop is not the goal or else we'd just have cops shoot everyone.

Tackling her? Probably not.

Tasing her? Yeah.. it might actually carry less risk than trying to "bear hug her and pinning her arms to her side"..

holy crap could that go wrong batman. Because guess what?

An 11 year girl just isn't all that strong

TThats right.. and when that cop tries to put his hands on her and restrain her? all sorts of injury can result to her especially if she panics and resists.

THE SMART MOVE HERE.. is that the police should NOT have tried to detain her physically or with a taser. They should have simply followed her and tried to convince her to simply comply. In all likelihood.. once she realized that she was not going to get away.. and she could would have just given up and complied. Heck.. you might have walked with her all the way to her mom and then deal with it.

the problem here.. is that you and Lursa.. and others.. are making the claim "well he should just have restrained her"... that puts the cop in a very difficult position for not hurting an 11 year old. All it would take would be for me to "try to bear hug her".. and for her to run.. or turn and swing, or simply fall while I am gripping her and I could hurt her easily. And I am better trained in martial arts than most officers.

This is NOT about her hurting the cop. this is about whether the cop should be in positions in which its expected that they MUST USE FORCE.. to detain her. ONCE.. its the expectation that the police MUST detain her.. then it puts her in a potentially dangerous situation.. and puts the cop in a no win scenario.

 

[DH Kirkwood]

Looking through the thread, people seem to disagree on whether or not we should be tasing little girls for a five-finger discount. I'll go a step farther and say that we shouldn't be tasing anyone for shoplifting, as much as shoplifting annoyed me back when I was a stockperson. While it's intended as a non-lethal alternative to, you know, shooting, but that doesn't mean that people don't get seriously injured, or die as a result of being tased. I beleive a taser should only be used if the officer's life is in danger.

If the kid had responded by reaching into her pocket, however . . . I'd be glad if it ended up in someone getting tased, rather than either party getting shot.

 

[Grand Mal]

11 year old girl. A cop shot her with a taser.
The guy's a lazy coward and so is anyone who defends him and allows him to continue in a position of authority.

 

[Gaius46]

Tackling her? Probably not.

Tasing her? Yeah.. it might actually carry less risk than trying to "bear hug her and pinning her arms to her side"..

holy crap could that go wrong batman. Because guess what? TThats right.. and when that cop tries to put his hands on her and restrain her? all sorts of injury can result to her especially if she panics and resists.

THE SMART MOVE HERE.. is that the police should NOT have tried to detain her physically or with a taser. They should have simply followed her and tried to convince her to simply comply. In all likelihood.. once she realized that she was not going to get away.. and she could would have just given up and complied. Heck.. you might have walked with her all the way to her mom and then deal with it.

the problem here.. is that you and Lursa.. and others.. are making the claim "well he should just have restrained her"... that puts the cop in a very difficult position for not hurting an 11 year old. All it would take would be for me to "try to bear hug her".. and for her to run.. or turn and swing, or simply fall while I am gripping her and I could hurt her easily. And I am better trained in martial arts than most officers.

This is NOT about her hurting the cop. this is about whether the cop should be in positions in which its expected that they MUST USE FORCE.. to detain her. ONCE.. its the expectation that the police MUST detain her.. then it puts her in a potentially dangerous situation.. and puts the cop in a no win scenario.

Your’s is the best solution and I’m glad an officer actually proposed it. Only reason I even put forth a “restraint” option is because just letting her go and follow her her would be unacceptable to many of the law and order people here.

Thanks.

 

[Jack Hays]

The intended use of the taser is specifically for difficult situations that are not necessarily life threatening. So justified use does not require that the officer feels threatened.
In many police departments the age guideline for taser use is 10 YOA, so an 11-year-old would be "eligible."
I doubt the officers will face any discipline.

 

[joko104]

While this sounds bad, there are too many details we just don't have. If the officer just let her run away, that would be a terrible lesson to that girl of potential serious consequences down the road. If the officer ran after her, tackling her and handcuffing her as she struggled, they claim would be a cop beat up an 11 year old - and potentially she could hit her head and seriously hurt. If the officer did nothing, and it turned out the girl did have a gun - the next round of police training videos would be training on shooting 11 year olds who reach in their pocket.

The article also says the girl weighed 90 pounds, so probably seemed a bit older.

No lawsuit would win, but if there are protests or riots, the city will pay the parents off.

 

[Lursa]

Oh stop!..so now you are accusing me of "lying".. what a load of horsecrap...

You are just getting upset because I presented facts and research and you have what"? .. nothing.

When you want to have an actual logical discussion.. I am available.. till then.. eace

You have lied about what I wrote. And provided links to information that DID NOT disprove my comments. Esp. about the potential harm when tazed in the spine and ALL the possible results instead of 'it's very safe' from you.

Nor were you able to dispute the fact that properly trained/competent cops should be able to restrain and 11 yr old without more than bruises.

I see no reason to keep repeating myself...you have not refuted my points and you have lied about what I've written.

 

[Lursa]

While this sounds bad, there are too many details we just don't have. If the officer just let her run away, that would be a terrible lesson to that girl of potential serious consequences down the road. If the officer ran after her, tackling her and handcuffing her as she struggled, they claim would be a cop beat up an 11 year old - and potentially she could hit her head and seriously hurt. If the officer did nothing, and it turned out the girl did have a gun - the next round of police training videos would be training on shooting 11 year olds who reach in their pocket.

The article also says the girl weighed 90 pounds, so probably seemed a bit older.

No lawsuit would win, but if there are protests or riots, the city will pay the parents off.

She was walking away. Her hands were in sight. There was more than one officer.

 

[Jack Hays]

She was walking away. Her hands were in sight. There was more than one officer.

If she was walking away then taser use was justified.

 

[Lursa]

If she was walking away then taser use was justified.

Still wrong. And nothing more than an action of lazy, callous expedience.

My posts spell it out clearly, as do others, so I dont plan to cover the same ground again.

 

[Jack Hays]

Still wrong. And nothing more than an action of lazy, callous expedience.

My posts spell it out clearly, as do others, so I dont plan to cover the same ground again.

As you wish. This is a case for which taser use was/is explicitly intended.

 

[jaeger19]

Your’s is the best solution and I’m glad an officer actually proposed it. Only reason I even put forth a “restraint” option is because just letting her go and follow her her would be unacceptable to many of the law and order people here.

Thanks.

And that sir is the problem that I am trying to address. We have gone past the idea that police should use common sense and decide the risk versus benefits of their actions. Its the expectation of the public.. and the police have run with it.. that the police must ACT.. they must stop that guy. etc. Go in.. charge in...without a "hmmm lets think this through".. (the problems with "SWATing are an example)

some of that is the public doesn;t understand the situation and the risks. Kind of like back in the day.. people complained about a police shooting and said "why did they have to kill him.. why didn;t they just shoot the gun out of his hand?".

And here its "well why didn;t they just restrain her?".