Competition

[Good4Nothin]

I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives today is conservatives think competition is healthy and necessary, and progressives don't. Progressives think people can and should cooperate with each other. They don't see the benefits of competition.

Progressives have faith in humanity. They think if we want to do something, or to be a certain way, we should be able to. If a group of people want to cooperate, they should be able to, no matter what. Why not?

Conservatives are more likely to have faith in something supernatural. They are less likely to trust human nature. They are more likely to think we have limited control over our mind and our nature. Our knowledge and understanding are limited.

This is why progressives and conservatives today cannot understand each other, and seldom even try.

One reason socialism always fails is that competition is not allowed. Everything depends on human intelligence and goodness. There is nothing to shove things back into place when they get out of line.

When competition is allowed, things evolve naturally. Competition, as well as cooperation, is everywhere in nature. And we are part of nature.

I am a conservative, in a way, because I respect nature and I don't think we can escape it or transcend it. Competition and cooperation are both laws of nature and neither can be abolished. And because my faith is not in humanity or human intelligence.

 

[Lutherf]

I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives today is conservatives think competition is healthy and necessary, and progressives don't. Progressives think people can and should cooperate with each other. They don't see the benefits of competition.

Progressives have faith in humanity. They think if we want to do something, or to be a certain way, we should be able to. If a group of people want to cooperate, they should be able to, no matter what. Why not?

Conservatives are more likely to have faith in something supernatural. They are less likely to trust human nature. They are more likely to think we have limited control over our mind and our nature. Our knowledge and understanding are limited.

This is why progressives and conservatives today cannot understand each other, and seldom even try.

One reason socialism always fails is that competition is not allowed. Everything depends on human intelligence and goodness. There is nothing to shove things back into place when they get out of line.

When competition is allowed, things evolve naturally. Competition, as well as cooperation, is everywhere in nature. And we are part of nature.

I am a conservative, in a way, because I respect nature and I don't think we can escape it or transcend it. Competition and cooperation are both laws of nature and neither can be abolished. And because my faith is not in humanity or human intelligence.

Maybe this is a dumb question, but if progressives have faith in humanity then why do they keep on pushing for laws which force people to do what progressives want them to do?

 

[JasperL]

I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives today is conservatives think competition is healthy and necessary, and progressives don't. Progressives think people can and should cooperate with each other. They don't see the benefits of competition.

It's hard to seriously address a post that starts off with what is IMO an obvious straw man. I'm I suppose one of those 'progressives' - certainly left of the GOP on economics, and read quite a few liberal writers, and not a single one that I know of fails to see the benefits of a market economy, which is competition. Yes, we should cooperate, but progressives don't think businesses can or should agree on, say, prices and all charge the same just because they're nice people. We all benefit from healthy competition.

The differences are on other issues, frankly.

Progressives have faith in humanity. They think if we want to do something, or to be a certain way, we should be able to. If a group of people want to cooperate, they should be able to, no matter what. Why not?

Conservatives are more likely to have faith in something supernatural. They are less likely to trust human nature. They are more likely to think we have limited control over our mind and our nature. Our knowledge and understanding are limited.

This is why progressives and conservatives today cannot understand each other, and seldom even try.

One reason socialism always fails is that competition is not allowed. Everything depends on human intelligence and goodness. There is nothing to shove things back into place when they get out of line.

When competition is allowed, things evolve naturally. Competition, as well as cooperation, is everywhere in nature. And we are part of nature.

I am a conservative, in a way, because I respect nature and I don't think we can escape it or transcend it. Competition and cooperation are both laws of nature and neither can be abolished. And because my faith is not in humanity or human intelligence.

OK, so competition and cooperation - it takes a village! - are both laws of nature and cannot be abolished. I agree I think but then the differences between conservatives and liberals is how much 'cooperation' and how much 'competition.' It's just not either/or, and no one or no ideology that's not so fringe as to be insignificant believe it is either/or competition/cooperation.

 

[vesper]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but if progressives have faith in humanity then why do they keep on pushing for laws which force people to do what progressives want them to do?

That wasn't a dumb question but you already knew it wasn't. Bravo.

 

[Good4Nothin]

It's hard to seriously address a post that starts off with what is IMO an obvious straw man. I'm I suppose one of those 'progressives' - certainly left of the GOP on economics, and read quite a few liberal writers, and not a single one that I know of fails to see the benefits of a market economy, which is competition. Yes, we should cooperate, but progressives don't think businesses can or should agree on, say, prices and all charge the same just because they're nice people. We all benefit from healthy competition.

The differences are on other issues, frankly.



OK, so competition and cooperation - it takes a village! - are both laws of nature and cannot be abolished. I agree I think but then the differences between conservatives and liberals is how much 'cooperation' and how much 'competition.' It's just not either/or, and no one or no ideology that's not so fringe as to be insignificant believe it is either/or competition/cooperation.

I said progressives, and you changed it to liberals. They are different, although they have merged in the Democratic party. Progressives tend to be socialists, and socialists do not see any need for competition.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Maybe this is a dumb question, but if progressives have faith in humanity then why do they keep on pushing for laws which force people to do what progressives want them to do?

Because they only have faith in the part of humanity that belongs to their ideology. They think all others are misguided and/or stupid and/or evil.

 

[Winston]

I said progressives, and you changed it to liberals. They are different, although they have merged in the Democratic party. Progressives tend to be socialists, and socialists do not see any need for competition.

Competition is just a buzz word. Firstly, progressives aren't full on communists. And even if they were, you wouldn't hear many of them railing against competition. Think of Eugene Debs. That may help you conceptualize what a socialist's goals are.

Basically today, you have progressives questioning what belongs in the public and private sector. They are asking if it makes sense that there is a profit motive in healthcare. But, you wouldn't find one arguing to abolish the market in nearly the rest of industries.

Let me ask you something. Did it make sense to have a profit motive in fire fighting?

 

[Good4Nothin]

Competition is just a buzz word. Firstly, progressives aren't full on communists. And even if they were, you wouldn't hear many of them railing against competition. Think of Eugene Debs. That may help you conceptualize what a socialist's goals are.

Basically today, you have progressives questioning what belongs in the public and private sector. They are asking if it makes sense that there is a profit motive in healthcare. But, you wouldn't find one arguing against abolishing the market in nearly the rest of industries.

Let me ask you something. Did it make sense to have a profit motive in fire fighting?

No, but lack of competition in healthcare could become a problem. Maybe it already is a problem, because of monopolies, etc.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Competition is just a buzz word. Firstly, progressives aren't full on communists. And even if they were, you wouldn't hear many of them railing against competition. Think of Eugene Debs. That may help you conceptualize what a socialist's goals are.

Basically today, you have progressives questioning what belongs in the public and private sector. They are asking if it makes sense that there is a profit motive in healthcare. But, you wouldn't find one arguing against abolishing the market in nearly the rest of industries.

Let me ask you something. Did it make sense to have a profit motive in fire fighting?

And I really have never heard a progressive say anything good about competition. They seem focused on cooperation, and the essential goodness of human nature. All of which can be seen to be a pile of cr-p once you have lived for a while.

 

[Mycroft]

I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives today is conservatives think competition is healthy and necessary, and progressives don't. Progressives think people can and should cooperate with each other. They don't see the benefits of competition.

Progressives have faith in humanity. They think if we want to do something, or to be a certain way, we should be able to. If a group of people want to cooperate, they should be able to, no matter what. Why not?

Conservatives are more likely to have faith in something supernatural. They are less likely to trust human nature. They are more likely to think we have limited control over our mind and our nature. Our knowledge and understanding are limited.

This is why progressives and conservatives today cannot understand each other, and seldom even try.

One reason socialism always fails is that competition is not allowed. Everything depends on human intelligence and goodness. There is nothing to shove things back into place when they get out of line.

When competition is allowed, things evolve naturally. Competition, as well as cooperation, is everywhere in nature. And we are part of nature.

I am a conservative, in a way, because I respect nature and I don't think we can escape it or transcend it. Competition and cooperation are both laws of nature and neither can be abolished. And because my faith is not in humanity or human intelligence.

I have a couple of issues with your position.

1. While you may be correct about the competition vs cooperation idea, that's not the biggest difference between the two. That would be the concept of using the government to force people to do what they want. One thinks that's acceptable and the other doesn't.

2. Conservative don't have a problem with people cooperating...if they want to. They just don't want to be told they MUST cooperate...or else.

3. Certain conservative may have faith in "something supernatural", but so do certain progressives.

About socialism...

The reason it always fails is because of human nature. People naturally want to do what THEY think is best for themselves...not what some government force tells them is best for them.

 

[Winston]

And I really have never heard a progressive say anything good about competition. They seem focused on cooperation, and the essential goodness of human nature. All of which can be seen to be a pile of cr-p once you have lived for a while.

you may find this video interesting.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives today is conservatives think competition is healthy and necessary, and progressives don't. Progressives think people can and should cooperate with each other. They don't see the benefits of competition.

Progressives have faith in humanity. They think if we want to do something, or to be a certain way, we should be able to. If a group of people want to cooperate, they should be able to, no matter what. Why not?

Conservatives are more likely to have faith in something supernatural. They are less likely to trust human nature. They are more likely to think we have limited control over our mind and our nature. Our knowledge and understanding are limited.

This is why progressives and conservatives today cannot understand each other, and seldom even try.

One reason socialism always fails is that competition is not allowed. Everything depends on human intelligence and goodness. There is nothing to shove things back into place when they get out of line.

When competition is allowed, things evolve naturally. Competition, as well as cooperation, is everywhere in nature. And we are part of nature.

I am a conservative, in a way, because I respect nature and I don't think we can escape it or transcend it. Competition and cooperation are both laws of nature and neither can be abolished. And because my faith is not in humanity or human intelligence.

Is there some kind of college course in Straw Man Creationism offered by Liberty University or is this just an offshoot of garden variety Christian apologetics, because it looks, sounds and smells like that, albeit the word "Christ" didn't get tossed in.

I'm a liberal, none of the bull**** you posted sounds like me at all.
WTAF?

 

[JasperL]

I said progressives, and you changed it to liberals. They are different, although they have merged in the Democratic party. Progressives tend to be socialists, and socialists do not see any need for competition.

Your first sentence assumes two sides, the right and left: "I think one of the big differences between progressives and conservatives."

But OK, quote a "progressive" in politics that believes we should do away with competition. I think you'll find 0% who share the views you attributed to them in the OP, but I'm open for examples of what you're talking about - quotes by actual people.

You can even quote "socialists" in American politics who have indicated no need for competition. I've never seen/read anyone not a fruitcake who actually wants "socialism" when it comes to goods and services, and it's not a position I can attribute to anyone I can name. Bernie and AOC self identify as Democratic socialists and I'm fairly sure you can't quote them advancing the views you made up in the OP. The Nordic model they advance has a big government role, but their economies are all market based, i.e. include a big dose of healthy, market based competition.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

And I really have never heard a progressive say anything good about competition. They seem focused on cooperation, and the essential goodness of human nature. All of which can be seen to be a pile of cr-p once you have lived for a while.

Oh well I guess that settles it, what with all those libs and progressives that are drawn to your giant piles of straw.
I guess there's no point in even debating then. You've never met a lib that believes in competition, debate CLOSED.

Where's that Jurassic Park "big pile of crap" video clip when you need it?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Ohhhh, here it is...

 

[JasperL]

Because they only have faith in the part of humanity that belongs to their ideology. They think all others are misguided and/or stupid and/or evil.

Oh, well that's insightful stuff. :roll:

You believe X.
I believe Y.

Do you not think I'm misguided or stupid for not agreeing with you? Do you not have faith in your view? Can we both be correct, which means there's no objective right or wrong, just whatever anyone believes and all views are equally right and/or wrong?

 

[Good4Nothin]

Oh well I guess that settles it, what with all those libs and progressives that are drawn to your giant piles of straw.
I guess there's no point in even debating then. You've never met a lib that believes in competition, debate CLOSED.

Where's that Jurassic Park "big pile of crap" video clip when you need it?

I said PROGRESSIVES, I did NOT SAY LIBERALS. Jeez people should learn how to pay attention.

Progressives and liberals, and socialists, are jammed together in the Democratic party, just adding to the confusion.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Oh, well that's insightful stuff. :roll:

You believe X.
I believe Y.

Do you not think I'm misguided or stupid for not agreeing with you? Do you not have faith in your view? Can we both be correct, which means there's no objective right or wrong, just whatever anyone believes and all views are equally right and/or wrong?

When people disagree with me I do NOT assume they are stupid or evil. I assume their information is different from mine. I know things they don't, and/or they know things I don't.

 

[JasperL]

And I really have never heard a progressive say anything good about competition. They seem focused on cooperation, and the essential goodness of human nature. All of which can be seen to be a pile of cr-p once you have lived for a while.

LOL. I can tell you've paid attention to a lot of progressives, given that you don't have a damn clue what they believe, and are just making it up to attack these made up positions. Seriously, it's much better if you start with someone's actual position, quote it or link to it, THEN attack it. That way we can all see the position, know who holds it, what they say, and have an informed debate. Here you're just making crap up and there's no way to address made up BS except to dismiss it.

 

[Good4Nothin]

you may find this video interesting.

No, I have NEVER said socialism fails because humans are naturally cruel. I said it fails, partly, because all of nature depends on BOTH cooperation and competition. People are NOT all good, or all bad. Those concepts are irrelevant. People are part of nature, and nature isn't "good" or "bad."

I am not promoting any of the typical simple-minded arguments against socialism.

 

[JasperL]

When people disagree with me I do NOT assume they are stupid or evil. I assume their information is different from mine. I know things they don't, and/or they know things I don't.

Misguided was also an option. :roll:

All you really said is people who believe things also believe they hold the correct opinion. Of course they do! If they didn't believe their opinion was correct, they'd change it to the correct one, unless they suffer from some kind of really weird mental illness....

 

[JasperL]

I said PROGRESSIVES, I did NOT SAY LIBERALS. Jeez people should learn how to pay attention.

Progressives and liberals, and socialists, are jammed together in the Democratic party, just adding to the confusion.

Again, point us to something that identifies a progressive versus a liberal, and then outlines what 'progressives' believe. I'm on the left and I don't have a clue what the difference is so I'll appreciate you linking to this belief system so I can figure out if I'm liberal or progressive! I didn't know anyone who identifies as a progressive or liberal who doesn't believe in competition so I'm waiting on a quote from an actual person. Surely you can find SOME progressive advancing the views in your OP. Right?

Thanks. We'll wait here.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Again, point us to something that identifies a progressive versus a liberal, and then outlines what 'progressives' believe. I'm on the left and I don't have a clue what the difference is so I'll appreciate you linking to this belief system so I can figure out if I'm liberal or progressive! I didn't know anyone who identifies as a progressive or liberal who doesn't believe in competition so I'm waiting on a quote from an actual person. Surely you can find SOME progressive advancing the views in your OP. Right?

Thanks. We'll wait here.

The only way to understand it is to become familiar with the history of the concepts. Progressives have always been connected somehow with socialism. Liberals were originally free market advocates, and still are in the UK, but got merged into the "left" with Progressives and socialists here in the US.

It's very complicated and requires detailed historical and linguistic analysis. I am just trying to show some of the basic ideas.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Misguided was also an option. :roll:

All you really said is people who believe things also believe they hold the correct opinion. Of course they do! If they didn't believe their opinion was correct, they'd change it to the correct one, unless they suffer from some kind of really weird mental illness....

It's fine to have an opinion and of course we believe our opinions are correct. But our opinions should be flexible and able to change when faced with new evidence. We should listen to our opponents, rather than ignore them because they are stupid and evil and ignorant.

For example, I have often heard Democrats say they won't listen to any of Trump's speeches.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

I said PROGRESSIVES, I did NOT SAY LIBERALS. Jeez people should learn how to pay attention.

Progressives and liberals, and socialists, are jammed together in the Democratic party, just adding to the confusion.

Oh please...don't even try. You're acting like this is the first G4N post I've ever read. :lamo

I hold views and values that are liberal, progressive, just plain Democratic and conservative all at the same time.
I tend to reliably vote for Democratic candidates.
All these ideologies are "jammed together" in the Democratic Party for a reason.

Start over, set this pile of straw on fire and try ASKING some questions of the lib/prog/soc/dem ilk instead.
I'll even politely and cordially do my level best to give you the most carefully thought out answers that I can.
Pick an issue, why not even pick "competition"...ask me what I think of competition.

I promise to put some real work into my response and I'll be polite, courteous and respectful.