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Christian vs. Christian

Vox said:
You can't lose an argument when there's no argument.

Just try to come up with something......anything.
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I did in the OP which you either can't answer or won't answer....most likely the latter because of the former...No biggie....Deflectors and dodgers are a dime a dozen. as are the ad homs which roll right off the back.
 
Logician Man said:
Agreed for the most part...but for the uber religious this is still a contentious topic between the Catholics and the Fundamentalists...especially in the south because 'souls are at stake') and that is the name of the game.
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OK, and...?

I mean, if you really want to get into the details of doctrinal disputes between Christian denominations, or the history of anti-Catholic bias, this doesn't seem to be the place to get the answers on that. It's not like any of us have published books on the history of Christian denominational conflicts.

Or are you trying to establish something else? In which case, you might as well stop beating around the bush.
 
Visbek said:
That's a political issue, not a denominational issue. And not every Catholic agrees with Pope Francis on political issues.

I have to add: In 1675, Protestants and Catholics were occasionally waging war on one another. We don't see that these days.
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We did, as little as early as 20 years ago. (North vs South Ireland)
 
RAMOSS said:
We did, as little as early as 20 years ago. (North vs South Ireland)
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1) That's a political issue, not a religious one.

2) The Troubles was peanuts compared to the Wars of the Reformation (which were also as much about politics as they were religion).
 
Visbek said:
OK, and...?

I mean, if you really want to get into the details of doctrinal disputes between Christian denominations, or the history of anti-Catholic bias, this doesn't seem to be the place to get the answers on that. It's not like any of us have published books on the history of Christian denominational conflicts.

Or are you trying to establish something else? In which case, you might as well stop beating around the bush.
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Fair questions Visbek..I just joined the site a couple of days ago.I like to debate both politics and religious issues.I'm still learning the ropes as to what to post where.If this is an inappropriate area in the forum for this thread,I was unaware.Give me a few days to get a better overall idea of how things work here...Fair enough?
 
Logician Man said:
Fair questions Visbek..I just joined the site a couple of days ago.I like to debate both politics and religious issues.I'm still learning the ropes as to what to post where.If this is an inappropriate area in the forum for this thread,I was unaware.Give me a few days to get a better overall idea of how things work here...Fair enough?
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I'm not a mod, so I don't decide which posts go where. In that respect, rules for the Theology subforum are here
https://www.debatepolitics.com/theology/306893-theology-forum.html

If you want to know specific theological differences between Christian denominations, or how ambiguity in texts functions, you can ask that here. I just don't think you are going to find good answers.

If you are curious about the history of anti-Catholic sentiment, that might be more political than theological. You'd probably be better off picking up a book on the topic.

I'd also say that if you are trying to do something else with this particular question (e.g. criticize religions), then it a) belongs in the parent forum of this one, and b) should just be asked directly. I'm not saying you are, but sometimes people try to bury the lede.
 
Logician Man said:
Why do some Fundamentalist Christians believe Catholics are going to hell?
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I don't hold the following beliefs, but as it has been explained to me by a couple fundamentalist Christians, there are a couple issues:

1) The perceived worship of saints and Mary.

2) The monetization of salvation means that the salvation cannot be real.

There's probably more reasons, but those two are the most commonly mentioned to me.
 
Visbek said:
I'm not a mod, so I don't decide which posts go where. In that respect, rules for the Theology subforum are here
https://www.debatepolitics.com/theology/306893-theology-forum.html

If you want to know specific theological differences between Christian denominations, or how ambiguity in texts functions, you can ask that here. I just don't think you are going to find good answers.

If you are curious about the history of anti-Catholic sentiment, that might be more political than theological. You'd probably be better off picking up a book on the topic.

I'd also say that if you are trying to do something else with this particular question (e.g. criticize religions), then it a) belongs in the parent forum of this one, and b) should just be asked directly. I'm not saying you are, but sometimes people try to bury the lede.
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Thanks for the link and info.I'm slowly,but surely figuring out the site...Have a good day
 
Logician Man said:
Why do some Fundamentalist Christians believe Catholics are going to hell?
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They have reasons. Most also believe that Jehovah's Witnesses are going to hell.

Here's a list re Catholics. Any search engine will give more:
Why Catholics Are Going To Hell

Sample:
Following Men's Traditions Instead of God's Word

I do not hate anyone. I do not hate any of the Popes. I do not hate any Catholics. They are sinners for whom Jesus Christ died, just as I am. I love Catholics, just as I love everyone with God's unconditional love. The love of God is unconditional. Christians who walk with God have God's love shed abroad in their heart, unconditionally loving others.

I don't mean to be unkind by saying that Catholics are going to Hell; but rather, to speak the truth and warn you of the judgment to come (2nd Thessalonians 1:8-9; Revelation 20:15). The modernistic idea that we should all refrain from criticizing anyone else's religion is a completely evil New World Order philosophy. I'm going to speak the truth of God's Word, even if it offends you. I am going to warn you that you are on a wrong road, headed for the bottomless pit, even if you hate me for it. I am telling you the truth. Catholicism is a manmade religion that cannot save you. There is NO salvation in the Catholic Church; only idolatry, worshipping of the dead, heathendom, rituals, vain repetitions and doctrines of devils (1st Timothy 4:1). Salvation is NOT found in any religion; but rather, in a Person, the precious Lord Jesus Christ!

Billions of lost sinners are dying in their sins and plunging into Hell because of the lying Popes and priests who deceive them. Romans 10:3, “For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.” Jesus warned about following the commandments of men (Mark 7:6-13). Here's a list of Catholicism's manmade traditions fabricated over the centuries.

Matthew 23:13, “But woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye shut up the kingdom of heaven against men: for ye neither go in yourselves, neither suffer ye them that are entering to go in.” Woe until the Catholic Church and their idolatrous worship of idols and images! Exodus 20:4-5 (the second of the Ten Commandment) strictly forbids even BOWING to images. The Vatican has deceitfully removed the 2nd Commandment in their Hellish Catechism!
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Logician Man said:
Why do some Fundamentalist Christians believe Catholics are going to hell?
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Because salvation is defined in many of the Protestant denominations (to include significant support in the Bible) as something that is purely based on faith, not works. Unless I'm not recalling correctly, I believe that salvation in Catholicism either requires various actions, or can be lost due to various actions. Both of those concepts represent salvation by works, and not faith alone, which means you're not putting all your faith in Christ's work/sacrifice.
 
Fishking said:
Because salvation is defined in many of the Protestant denominations (to include significant support in the Bible) as something that is purely based on faith, not works. Unless I'm not recalling correctly, I believe that salvation in Catholicism either requires various actions, or can be lost due to various actions. Both of those concepts represent salvation by works, and not faith alone, which means you're not putting all your faith in Christ's work/sacrifice.
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Thanks Fish...I remember the salvation by works vs. salvation by faith issue.That is one of the most contentious differences for sure...Mary,and her role is also a major point of contention.
 
Logician Man said:
Thanks Fish...I remember the works vs. salvation issue.That is one of the most contentious difference for sure.
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I think that covers the biggest rub/difference between the two. There is also an impression among many Protestant denominations that Catholicism practices a form of idolatry in the form of deification of the saints vs veneration of the saints. From what I understand, Catholics will pray to saints where Protestants will say this deifies them and also that the only mediator between men and God is Jesus. I think there are some particular things regarding how Mary is treated and such but I can't recall particulars, maybe that she is considered to be without sin as well?

I think that covers pretty much most of it. Then you have to go back to culture that was based on a history of how the RCC killed many Protestants and various Christian groups that tried to split off from the RCC prior to the Protestant Reformation on very large and wide-spread scales. That's going to carry down a bit through the generations but may be mostly gone now.
 
Fishking said:
I think that covers the biggest rub/difference between the two. There is also an impression among many Protestant denominations that Catholicism practices a form of idolatry in the form of deification of the saints vs veneration of the saints. From what I understand, Catholics will pray to saints where Protestants will say this deifies them and also that the only mediator between men and God is Jesus. I think there are some particular things regarding how Mary is treated and such but I can't recall particulars, maybe that she is considered to be without sin as well?

I think that covers pretty much most of it. Then you have to go back to culture that was based on a history of how the RCC killed many Protestants and various Christian groups that tried to split off from the RCC prior to the Protestant Reformation on very large and wide-spread scales. That's going to carry down a bit through the generations but may be mostly gone now.
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Yes...Also familiar with the idolatry point of contention...That may be the most contentious point of all,based on many,many years of debating this particular issue within the Christian community.
 
Angel said:
Later or sooner, that's the answer to your question. From a strict literal interpretation of a sacred book, all looser less literal interpretations fall short.
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I meant later,as in cya later..lol
 
Angel said:
Later or sooner, that's the answer to your question. From a strict literal interpretation of a sacred book, all looser less literal interpretations fall short.
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Oooh, careful, Angel, that's sounding a little Pharisee-esque. I've seen a lot of self proclaimed "fundamentalist" denominations justify all kinds of nonsense, claiming they have a "strict literal interpretation of a sacred book"... ;) hehe... The second one says they have the mind of God all sorted out, that's when I know I should stop listening to them.
 
OlNate said:
Oooh, careful, Angel, that's sounding a little Pharisee-esque. I've seen a lot of self proclaimed "fundamentalist" denominations justify all kinds of nonsense, claiming they have a "strict literal interpretation of a sacred book"... ;) hehe... The second one says they have the mind of God all sorted out, that's when I know I should stop listening to them.
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Yes indeed, you've hit on the grace note: we can always stop listening. In most cases that's the wisdom of the matter.
 
Angel said:
Yes indeed, you've hit on the grace note: we can always stop listening. In most cases that's the wisdom of the matter.
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I'm Lutheran, I'm big on grace.... ;)
 
Logician Man said:
Why do some Fundamentalist Christians believe Catholics are going to hell?
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I'm a Baptist. Never heard anyone saying Catholics will go to hell. I don't believe that.
 
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