China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

[Tangmo]

How so?



Can we get you to put away the Nazi card?

Can you put away the Nazi card?
All you have proven is that's all you got when rebutting most arguments on DP threads...

But your armband is so colorful.

Especially when you extend your hand and flick it to try to shoo away others.

It's odd anyway how Trump hates China yet he loves Russia. And he loves getting love letters from North Korea. Hates America's allies. It's when he talks like Mussolini that he's most clear though. Some people see Trump as a Nazi wannabe while others see Trump as a bumbling Mussolini. Putin-Trump Rowers see him as a savior which is how Trump sees himself.

It's the case anyway the currency manipulator designation is what's going to bite a chunk out of Xi's arse. Xi has bungled the trade war severely.

 

[Tangmo]

China, or any other country that holds US T-Bond can sell any time they wish to sell them. They are not obliged to wait 10, 20 or 30 years to the term date. Of course, short selling T-bonds would be very costly for China. China owns about 1.2 trillion dollars in US bonds. To put that in perspective, that's about 5% of all bonds, however it's nearly a third of bonds held by Foreign owners. Less than a year ago, China sold $3 billion in U.S. dollar bonds, raising money as many US companies were and in the midst of global markets selloffs.

Imagine a neighborhood in which one third of all the houses suddenly went on sale. There would not be nearly enough buyers to match up with the sellers and the prices would collapse. Once the prices drop low enough, there would eventually be enough governments, Banks and wealthy people who could not resist such a bargain. One can only speculate what kind of discount China may have to offer in order to find buyers for their bonds. Let's say it's 15%. That means China is going to lose about 200 billion dollars on the deal. That still counts as real money.

Of course, that would also involve some pain for the U.S. for the next 6 months or more, we would have to offer higher interest rates on new Bonds in order to entice Bond buyers to buy them. Beijing selling T-bonds would be a retaliatory strike against Trump and the US economy. China could very well be tempted to sell a large chunk of its stockpile of Treasury bills in an attempt to raise US government borrowing costs at a time when the US is already dealing with trillion dollar deficits.

Of course China can and did sell US T Bills when they wanted to. I never said they could not. I posted that Beijing sold $500 billion of 'em late in 2015. CCP Boyz in Beijing had to support their monopoly money currency being depreciated by global markets.

US markets were entirely unaffected by it and so was the USD$. I posted that nobody else noticed the sale to include yourself not noticing it or knowing of it until now. That's how smoothly the sale went for the USA and the USD$. Nobody noticed then and few people know of it even now. Nothing adverse happened to USA by the Chinese sale of T Bills to the tune of $500 billion. The sale was completely uneventful for the US economy, financial system, dollar.

The global markets bought the bonds in an instant, to include the due dates of the bonds which vary. The due date on a T Bill is the date the Treasury pays out and not an instant before. Investors bought the T Bills from China and put 'em on the shelf until their due date. This is what I posted and this is fact. A bond has a due date. If I want to sell my bond to you, then you can buy it from me....and then you hold it until its due date. Or you can sell it to some one else....rinse and repeat until the due date.

In short, this China owns US T Bills stuff is crap that needs to be saved for Halloween only.

 

[MauiMan]

Even if he was impeached tomorrow, who's going to extract this country from the tangled web of atrocities this man has imposed on this country, Mike Pence? All Mike Pence can do is 'go and pray on it'. Yeah well it's going to take a lot more than that to stop the bleeding in this country.

He will not be impeached. He must be removed through the electoral process. We need a leader who faces 21st century challenges and leads us to real solutions. This guy lives in 20th (and 19th) century ideas of empires and racial oppression. He’s dangerous to the health and safety of the world, and tries to “rule” our democracy like a dictator with seat-of-the-pants edicts. What an idiot...

 

[iguanaman]

Actually we have the better hand. We dont need them, they need us at least for the time being. Without us they are screwed economically.

LOL They have the entire world to sell to. We have 100's of corporations and retailers that depend on Chinese goods and will go broke without them.

 

[JustHanging]

Can you put away the Nazi card?
All you have proven is that's all you got when rebutting most arguments on DP threads...

I know this wasn't addressed to me, but Atomic Kid raises lots of good points. Your problem is you're a big Trump supporter, and hate it when someone points out the obvious: He publicly supported Neo Nazis and the KKK, saying some are "very fine people", and he seems to be pushing the government in a fascist direction.

So that's not Atomic Kid playing the Nazi card, that's him being factual. Of course, we all know facts are like Kryptonite to not only Trump, but most of his supporters as well.

 

[JustHanging]

But your armband is so colorful.

Especially when you extend your hand and flick it to try to shoo away others.

:applaud

 

[WCH]

LOL 6% growth is what you call "floundering". The CBO forecasts 2.3% U.S. GDP growth this year falling to 1.8% in 2020. China is in far better shape to withstand a downturn than we are and they know it. Hating it or not, Trump has made his "empire" from losing repeatedly and that is not going to help him one bit now.

You're not one of those wishing for a recession just to hurt Trump... are you?

 

[iguanaman]

You're not one of those wishing for a recession just to hurt Trump... are you?

Quoting CBO projections is not wishcasting and shooting the messenger is not a fix either. Being in denial is really dumb.

 

[WCH]

Quoting CBO projections is not wishcasting and shooting the messenger is not a fix either. Being in denial is really dumb.

We can all read here. We don't need no stinking gleeful messenger.

 

[iguanaman]

We can all read here. We don't need no stinking gleeful messenger.

Doubling down on denial I see.

 

[Tangmo]

LOL They have the entire world to sell to. We have 100's of corporations and retailers that depend on Chinese goods and will go broke without them.

There are a couple of dozen countries to which manufacturers in China have been moving to produce goods in a low skills and cheap labor market. Nobody's going to miss the crap Made in China.

Stuff will be made in a dozen countries primarily plus others. We're talking about Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, India, Kenya, Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Mexico, Cuba among others.

Too many people here care about China when they don't have to but want to. China is a miserable tyranny and dictatorship that wants to dominate the world which means removing all influence of the USA and Japan from it.

 

[iguanaman]

There are a couple of dozen countries to which manufacturers in China have been moving to produce goods in a low skills and cheap labor market. Nobody's going to miss the crap Made in China.

Stuff will be made in a dozen countries primarily plus others. We're talking about Vietnam, Thailand, Taiwan, Indonesia, Bangladesh, India, Kenya, Mexico, Chile, Argentina, Mexico, Cuba among others.

Too many people here care about China when they don't have to but want to. China is a miserable tyranny and dictatorship that wants to dominate the world which means removing all influence of the USA and Japan from it.

People care about their jobs that will not exist without Chinese goods. You have no clue about the scale of Chinese manufacturing, it would take decades for others to take their place. We buy $10 billion worth of oil and gas from Russia speaking of countries that are miserable tyrannies and want to destroy us. Don't forget that China has the fastest growing middle class in the world and GM sells more cars there here. Do you think we will prosper without the Chinese market too?

 

[Tangmo]

People care about their jobs that will not exist without Chinese goods. You have no clue about the scale of Chinese manufacturing, it would take decades for others to take their place. We buy $10 billion worth of oil and gas from Russia speaking of countries that are miserable tyrannies and want to destroy us. Don't forget that China has the fastest growing middle class in the world and GM sells more cars there here. Do you think we will prosper without the Chinese market too?

You're OTT about China sir. Accordingly, I highlighted your wild statement.

 

[upsideguy]

I have lived and worked in China for the past ten years to the present. I am in Shenzhen City adjacent to Hong Kong. Shenzhen City is the electronics city. The province I am in -- Guangdong province -- puts $1 Trillion into CCP GDP. That's a lot of green.

I transit Hong Kong and China back and forth with occasional return visits to USA that are both personal and business related.

I am posting from China based on this personal experience. I have my opinions, yes, and so do you. That is, while you live by myth and legend, I live by fact and personal knowledge based on personal experience of interacting with the Chinese people daily and with CCP members regularly.

Accordingly, you are invited to get back to me with your questions about the reality of life on the mainland of China and in Hong Kong. I'd be pleased to inform you of each, which are radically different of course. Until then, kindly be more cautious and careful about your presumptions thx. Because while you are debating I am presenting my experience and knowledge in China both professional and personal.

So I hope you have a good evening and a better day tomorrow.

Thank you. First of all, I took issue with a post where you set forth an opinion that the conventional wisdom about Chinese culture, that they are long-term thinkers, was a "myth", without any evidence or any other credentialing. I not only had the right to call you out on that, but a duty in terms of healthy debate.

Thank you for setting forth your credentials, which you should have done in the first place. That said, your opinion remains that of an eye-witness that sits in China, but is removed from the politics of China. So I appreciate your informed opinion on the matter, you will forgive me I do not raise that opinion to "expert opinion" as clearly you have some limitations to truly see inside of the Chinese government, but it was a noteworthy opinion. Not a prima facie case that what i set forth was a myth, especially since I backed it up with academic opinion, but a worthy read and worth consideration nonetheless.

 

[Tangmo]

Thank you. First of all, I took issue with a post where you set forth an opinion that the conventional wisdom about Chinese culture, that they are long-term thinkers, was a "myth", without any evidence or any other credentialing. I not only had the right to call you out on that, but a duty in terms of healthy debate.

Thank you for setting forth your credentials, which you should have done in the first place. That said, your opinion remains that of an eye-witness that sits in China, but is removed from the politics of China. So I appreciate your informed opinion on the matter, you will forgive me I do not raise that opinion to "expert opinion" as clearly you have some limitations to truly see inside of the Chinese government, but it was a noteworthy opinion. Not a prima facie case that what i set forth was a myth, especially since I backed it up with academic opinion, but a worthy read and worth consideration nonetheless.

Tangmo is not an island.

No matter how hard you try to create vast ocean around him.

I'm in China. I've been in China ten years. When I talk to Chinese about their government I learn from 'em. The number one thing to learn as the starting point is that the government and the state are secondary. The Party is paramount. It's Party over country in the CCP-PRC. The Party tries to equate the two yet the people of the People's Republic know this and the people of the CCP-PRC know better than to buy into the nonsense. This is a starting point to knowledge and insight into the politics of the CCP-PRC.

I'd already mentioned more than once CCP are a dynasty of emperors in business suits. As a new dynasty CCP-PRC is a nervous dynasty. The reason is that the Party knows every dynasty of China fails. The people of the People's Republic know this too. So it's the people of the People's Republic who take the long view, ie, they save money and prepare for the coming collapse. The Party takes the short view, which is steal all the money they can while the stealing is good. Then take the money and run when the time comes to bail. In China the time for the emperor and his mandarins to bail always comes. It's an iron rule there. A dog chasing it's tail. I look forward btw to keeping you posted.