China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

[Chomsky]

There is no concrete proof that the above will happen... I remember when some from this forum predicted Trump would be removed from office by now because Russians...
Do you really think all the concern shown by Trump's comments this morning isn't just more poutrage?

I give my best opinion. If I could "prove" where the economy is going, I'd be the wealthiest guy in the world - now wouldn't I?

But I will opine this: If Trump crashes the economy, he is unlikely to win re-election.

 

[Godric1970]

No this trade war requires intestinal fortitude. That means dropping the hammer on the Chinese. A full cessation of trade with China. That means full court press of economic pressure, including selling military items to Taiwan and Japan and everyone else there. Playing dirty pool by helping the Uyghurs with intelligence and equipment, and disrupting the camps which they are held so they may escape. Publicly and vociferously supporting Hong Kong and Taiwan and declaring the single China policy null and void. That just the beginning. Everything short of a shooting war. Make it very uncomfortable for the Chinese.

do any of that will result in shrooms over the skies of America .... China will not tolerate interference in internal Chinese matters ... you will have no support from Europe

 

[PirateMk1]

Your suggestion will plunge the world into a depression worst than the great depression. You must feel you are isolated from the disastrous ramifications, but many will suffer untold miseries and worse, and I think you may be kidding yourself as to your being impervious to the effects or how little others will suffer.

Its either that or we bend over and take it from the Chinese. Its that simple. We are not asking for them to bend over and get raped, just reciprocity. They want dominance, and they dont give a damn us or our economy, so if we bend over we will be screwed long term no ifs, no ands, no buts. Best to take the pain now and get our deal or cut ties, or be screwed into a much worse and harder to recover from position.

There may be a global economy but that economy is NOT homogenous. Its a patchwork of other economies that are linked more or less and are effected more or less.

 

[SenorXm/Sirius]

If Trump crashes the economy, he is unlikely to win re-election.

Very true.. But still 75% of the GOP base will vote for him, even as they lose their jobs because Trump, and his Con media allies will blame the Dems for crashing the economy, and his base will believe him.

There's still Cons right on this site who blame Obama for the 2008 crash.

 

[trixare4kids]

I give my best opinion. If I could "prove" where the economy is going, I'd be the wealthiest guy in the world - now wouldn't I?

But I will opine this: If Trump crashes the economy, he is unlikely to win re-election.

Is this what you are hoping for?
Not pointed at you, but you do realize Trump opposition are hoping Trump crashes the economy because in their minds they know it will be the end for his presidency.

I find that attitude, (again, not yours), but the collectives', contemptibly unAmerican.

 

[PirateMk1]

do any of that will result in shrooms over the skies of America .... China will not tolerate interference in internal Chinese matters ... you will have no support from Europe

What you think they will go to nuclear war? Well then we all die including them. They will cease to exist at that point because we can glass their entire country. Mutually assured destruction.

 

[Deuce]

You mean the do nothing congress should look the other way and allow China to keep ripping us off.

Congress should be in charge of major international trade policy, yes. You want President Ocasio-Cortez to have unilateral, unchecked control over trade policy like this?”

 

[ElChupacabra]

Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...

Looking at the long game, the Chinese have the option of making waves for the next few months and see what kind of impact it has on our economy since Trump needs it to be strong across the board. Boasting about a great economy won't mean so much if the public starts feeling it in their wallets.

 

[PirateMk1]

I give my best opinion. If I could "prove" where the economy is going, I'd be the wealthiest guy in the world - now wouldn't I?

But I will opine this: If Trump crashes the economy, he is unlikely to win re-election.

If the economy hits the breakers Trump is ****ed. You are correct. That said what needs doing, needs doing.

 

[PirateMk1]

Looking at the long game, the Chinese have the option of making waves for the next few months and see what kind of impact it has on our economy since Trump needs it to be strong across the board. Boasting about a great economy won't mean so much if the public starts feeling it in their wallets.

The problem with that strategy is Trump will retaliate and I have a feeling its gona make more waves there than here.

 

[iguanaman]

There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.

LOL Confronting China alone and when they hold all the cards is not going to get them to change their ways. You are making the same stupid mistake that Trump is. When our economy tanks we will come groveling to them for mercy. Meanwhile we prop up other violators of human rights and threats to global security by buying their oil and asking that they be included in the G7.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Trade wars are easy to win.

Especially when winning simply means making the assertion that you are winning. Much like we are constantly winning in the (endless?) wars on poverty, drugs and terrorism - just a few more decades and a few more trillions in funding and total victory is assured.

 

[ElChupacabra]

The problem with that strategy is Trump will retaliate and I have a feeling its gona make more waves there than here.

Sure, but he is in re-election mode and the Chinese can apply the right pressure at the right time. Not that I'm cheering the Chinese on, but from a strategic perspective, Trump has more to lose in the short term.

 

[JustHanging]

Source: (CNN) China retaliates with tariffs on $75 billion of US goods

I'm not sure what more can be said here. After getting Trump to blink & back down last week during U.S. crashing stock & bond markets, it seems China is now shifting gears and firmly taking the offense in escalating the trade & currency wars.

U.S. manufacturing has contracted for the first time in a decade, and the heightening trade war will only exasperate the contraction. The American consumer is keeping the economy afloat, but a contracting manufacturing sector will eventually trickle-down to less consumer spending. Obviously the manufacturing sector isn't as large a component of the U.S. economy as in days gone by, but it still is an important part of our economy.

It's my opinion that Trump has lost his self-inflicted trade war, and needs to declare victory and move on to something else. That is, if he wants to have an economy commensurate with his gaining re-election.

Additional relevance: For what it's worth, I just checked and the Dow is down nearly 600 pts and the yield curve just inverted again ... oh well ...

Very good explanation. Thank you.

 

[Deuce]

Is this what you are hoping for?
Not pointed at you, but you do realize Trump opposition are hoping Trump crashes the economy because in their minds they know it will be the end for his presidency.

I find that attitude, (again, not yours), but the collectives', contemptibly unAmerican.

You’re cheering on harm to Americans. You’re anti American.

 

[iguanaman]

What you think they will go to nuclear war? Well then we all die including them. They will cease to exist at that point because we can glass their entire country. Mutually assured destruction.

They don't need a war to break us. We are all alone in this and they will trade with the rest of the world while we crumble. They are simply calling Trump's bluff.

 

[ElChupacabra]

LOL Confronting China alone and when they hold all the cards is not going to get them to change their ways. You are making the same stupid mistake that Trump is. When our economy tanks we will come groveling to them for mercy. Meanwhile we prop up other violators of human rights and threats to global security by buying their oil and asking that they be included in the G7.

They don't hold all the cards though. They need access to our market as well, so there's definitely room to negotiate on fairer access to theirs; along with tightening IP laws so they're not busy poaching. Playing this game of chicken is what I don't think is the best approach.

 

[uptower]

There is going to be some economic pain as we challenge China and try to de-couple the economies. However, it must be done and the price must be paid. Trading with China and boosting their economy is like enabling the Nazis, China must be confronted and opposed if not just because of how they abuse on trade, but because they pose a major threat to global/national security, democracy and commit major human rights violations.

What's this business about "decoupling" economies. Who says it's even needed?

In Trump's childlike view of the world trade is a zero-sum game - winners and losers like the way he does business. He finds someone weaker and screws them over because he's a cheat. China isn't weaker and can screw him back. Yes there are issues, but America stands to gain far more from attempting to cooperate with its trade partners than antagonizing them.

We know China has a problem with Human rights (to a lesser extent so does America and to a greater extent so to many of America's allies): this is no reason for a midwest farmer to go out of business. Human rights or not, people still need to eat stuff.

 

[Linc]

China can endure much more economic pain than we Americans can, add in there's an election next year.

The Republicans in Congress better grow a pair and step on the madman in the WH, or the 2020 election will be a bloodbath for the GOP.. And I'm not just talking about in Washington DC.

GOPs lost 42 moderate House seats last year because their base did NOT turn out. Specifically, we saw saw this with 2 House seats in Iowa, one in Oklahoma and one in South Carolina.

Don’t expect this mythical trump base to turn out in 2020 in farm country. Farm banks, implement dealers, patriotic family farmers and rural communities have all been decimated by trump’s insane trade policies, including pulling out of TPP.

Alt-trumpists didn’t pay attention to the Koch brothers on tariff wars, which accelerated the Great Depression. When public pensions from federal to state to local start going bankrupt next decade, we’ll indeed be in another Great Depression.

 

[Hatuey]

You’re cheering on harm to Americans. You’re anti American.

Americans being in pain means Trump is winning.

Trix's argument in a nutshell.

Sent from the Matrioshka in the WH Christmas tree.

 

[Mr Person]

Is this what you are hoping for?
Not pointed at you, but you do realize Trump opposition are hoping Trump crashes the economy because in their minds they know it will be the end for his presidency.

I find that attitude, (again, not yours), but the collectives', contemptibly unAmerican.

What a load of (typical) hyper-partisan horse ****. Discussing the natural consequences of stupid actions by Trump =/= hoping he crashes the economy.



No matter how much you have been conditioned to hate liberals, you should for your soul's sake stop pissing all over the commandment against bearing false witness.

 

[trixare4kids]

Congress should be in charge of major international trade policy, yes. You want President Ocasio-Cortez to have unilateral, unchecked control over trade policy like this?”

You make less sense than usual.

I don't want the Democrooks to be in charge of trade... we already had 8 years of Obama's and his :thumbdown congress. Enough.

Lameduck his entire last four years.... Do nothing idiots.

 

[trixare4kids]

What a load of (typical) hyper-partisan horse ****. Discussing the natural consequences of stupid actions by Trump =/= hoping he crashes the economy.



No matter how much you have been conditioned to hate liberals, you should for your soul's sake stop pissing all over the commandment against bearing false witness.

:: :bs alert ::

 

[iguanaman]

Sure, but he is in re-election mode and the Chinese can apply the right pressure at the right time. Not that I'm cheering the Chinese on, but from a strategic perspective, Trump has more to lose in the short term.

Trump got us into a war we cannot win because he did not think it through. And the rest of the world can just laugh at our pain and blame us for tanking the world's economy for nothing.

 

[Bucky]

Trump got us into a war we cannot win because he did not think it through. And the rest of the world can just laugh at our pain and blame us for tanking the world's economy for nothing.

His tweet today was by far his worst in his presidency. Hopefully, he DOES NOT DOUBLE DOWN this afternoon.