CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion [W:383]

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

and Paul seems down right tickled about it

"The Budget Control Act has been updated to make certain that House Republicans fulfill their pledge to cut spending more than we increase the debt limit"

"For a review of discretionary spending next year under the Budget Control Act, showing real cuts relative to FY2011, and spending cuts far closer to the House-passed budget as opposed to the President’s request to increase government spending:"

The Budget Control Act of 2011 | Budget.House.Gov

so if republicans had compromised on simply letting the Bush Tax Cuts EXPIRE AS SCHEDULED for the top 2%, we would have reduced the deficit faster without hurting the economy.

Those were passed with bi-partisanship support. Neither side seemed anxious to let them expire.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Seems like folks forget that we largely fixed the " we are under taxed" problem on 1/1. Taxes can and should be reformed, both personal and corporate. But the % of GDP we will collect in taxes in 2013 will be around the historical norm.

Not sure why you go back and forth with someone who seems to know little but is allowed to disparage folks on the site on partisan grounds. That is not debate, it is yelling. I finally put him/her on ignore.

I can only assume you are talking about me. Unlike you cons, I don't whine when I'm insulted. And telling you to read something slowly is more of a snide comment than an insult. And I don't make it the focus of my posts. Lets address what you posted

"Seems like folks forget that we largely fixed the " we are under taxed" problem on 1/1"

really? please explain. (using actual facts please)

" But the % of GDP we will collect in taxes in 2013 will be around the historical norm."

Lets pretend this is true ( because who knows your value of norm is). You are in effect saying that it was below historical norms before 2013. Does that mean that revenue was part of the problem of the deficits? I think it does. And if revenue was part of the problem then people who claimed "its only a spending problem" were lying.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Those were passed with bi-partisanship support. Neither side seemed anxious to let them expire.

I knew you would post something that made no sense. I have no idea what you are saying because in the context of the facts, it makes no sense. And it has nothing to do with the current topic. Let me refresh your memory

Looking for the dem compromise on spending and I cant seem to find it. .

There are real spending cuts in the BCA in addition to the sequester.
Republican leadership bragged about the cuts

So don't try to make it only about sequester. Before I ask you to define "spend a lot more" can you admit that you 'found the dem compromise'?

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

I knew you would post something that made no sense. I have no idea what you are saying because in the context of the facts, it makes no sense. And it has nothing to do with the current topic. Let me refresh your memory

The extension of the so called Bush tax cuts was done with bipartisan support and overwhelmingly so. Go back and check. Dont need a memory refresh.

There are real spending cuts in the BCA in addition to the sequester.
Republican leadership bragged about the cuts

So don't try to make it only about sequester.

That were part of the bill that encompassed the sequester...pick nits much?

Before I ask you to define "spend a lot more" can you admit that you 'found the dem compromise'?

I just did. Pay attention. Dont bother with the spend more, Im done talking to someone that doesnt even TRY to stay on topic without the snark and snide remarks.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

The extension of the so called Bush tax cuts was done with bipartisan support and overwhelmingly so. Go back and check. Dont need a memory refresh.


That were part of the bill that encompassed the sequester...pick nits much?

I just did. Pay attention. Dont bother with the spend more, Im done talking to someone that doesnt even TRY to stay on topic without the snark and snide remarks.

wow OC, again with your 'stay on topic' hypocrisy. I'm addressing your false statement directly. And the actual spending cuts in the BCA disproved your silly statement. Lets address your juvenile attempt to deflect..

"extension of the so called Bush tax cuts was done

not topic related. doesn't address your false point

"That were part of the bill that encompassed the sequester...pick nits much"

not topic related, doesn't address your false point, you pretended not notice the actual spending cuts in BCA which shredded your false point

" done talking to someone that doesnt even TRY to stay on topic without the snark and snide remarks."

not topic related, feigned outrage just gives you juvenile excuse to run away from your false statement and the conclusion you based on it.

come back when you grow up and can admit you were wrong about actual spending cuts.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

wow OC, again with your 'stay on topic' hypocrisy. I'm addressing your false statement directly. And the actual spending cuts in the BCA disproved your silly statement. Lets address your juvenile attempt to deflect..

"extension of the so called Bush tax cuts was done

YOU brought it up. Jeez.

not topic related. doesn't address your false point
"That were part of the bill that encompassed the sequester...pick nits much"
not topic related, doesn't address your false point, you pretended not notice the actual spending cuts in BCA which shredded your false point

Actually when the two were passed together, in the same bill, as part of the compromise, it IS the topic.

" done talking to someone that doesnt even TRY to stay on topic without the snark and snide remarks."

not topic related, feigned outrage just gives you juvenile excuse to run away from your false statement and the conclusion you based on it.

come back when you grow up and can admit you were wrong about actual spending cuts.

I already admitted dems compromised once. Neither side intended to follow through on sequester. I would offer that dems have not budged on a variety of other spending points; particularly entitlements and social security.

 

[DA60]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

YOU brought it up. Jeez.


Actually when the two were passed together, in the same bill, as part of the compromise, it IS the topic.



I already admitted dems compromised once. Neither side intended to follow through on sequester. I would offer that dems have not budged on a variety of other spending points; particularly entitlements and social security.

You are wasting your time with this guy, IMO.

He is not here to debate.

He is here to vent, put down and rant....in other words...he is a troll.

Just one that happens to be rather obsessed with Obama, IMO.

My two cents.

 

[Gina]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Moderator's Warning:

Please gentlemen, return to the topic, which is not other posters.

 

[DA60]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Moderator's Warning:

Please gentlemen, return to the topic, which is not other posters.

You are more polite then most mods when they 'break it up'.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

You are more polite then most mods when they 'break it up'.

they have to make it about me. It helps deflect from the facts I post. In this case we were discussing the spending cuts that cons don't know about.

So if pubs got their spending cuts, what does that say about the republicans cries that President Obama wont compromise on spending cuts? it says its a lie. So OC, lets discuss the dems compromising on spending cuts.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

So they cut to 2009 levels which were 20% higher than 2007 levels. They slowed the rate of growth.

Its a start. Reps compromised on revenue increases. Id say both sides compromised. Niether really got what they wanted. Maybe they should do it more often.

 

[froggigger]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

If business kept its books the way government kept theirs, there would be a lot of CEOs and CFOs in prison. Cuts in government aren't cuts at all, but are cuts in the rate of increase. The sequester was exactly that. Spending and national debt increase every year, and that includes the so-called surplus years under Clinton. There was no surplus, and there hasn't been one since 1957.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

So they cut to 2009 levels which were 20% higher than 2007 levels. They slowed the rate of growth.

Its a start. Reps compromised on revenue increases. Id say both sides compromised. Niether really got what they wanted. Maybe they should do it more often.

what is the point of saying "2009 levels which were 20% higher than 2007 levels"? First off, 2009 was 25% higher. Remember the Great Bush Recession added 400 billion in spending to the 2009 spending. Wait, is this yet another narrative to avoid discussing the fact that dems compromised on spending cuts and you knew nothing about it? Boehner and Ryan told you they were spending cuts. Flailing at them doesn't change the facts and doesn't make the fact you knew nothing about them go away.

And republicans really didn't compromise. they surrendered. Its why Boehner literally had a mutiny on his hands. That's doesn't sound like compromise to me. Remember how they ran around screaming President Obama would not compromise on spending cuts? that's why you didn't know about the spending cuts. It didn't help the lying republican narrative.

and notice that's pretty much the structure of our conversations. I post a fact. You flail at it for post after post. At some point you need to realize that the 'conservative entertainment complex' isn't honest with you. Remember how certain you were dems didn't compromise. Remember next I tell you and prove something you just cant believe. Its not me.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

what is the point of saying "2009 levels which were 20% higher than 2007 levels"? First off, 2009 was 25% higher. Remember the Great Bush Recession added 400 billion in spending to the 2009 spending. Wait, is this yet another narrative to avoid discussing the fact that dems compromised on spending cuts and you knew nothing about it? Boehner and Ryan told you they were spending cuts. Flailing at them doesn't change the facts and doesn't make the fact you knew nothing about them go away.

And republicans really didn't compromise. they surrendered. Its why Boehner literally had a mutiny on his hands. That's doesn't sound like compromise to me. Remember how they ran around screaming President Obama would not compromise on spending cuts? that's why you didn't know about the spending cuts. It didn't help the lying republican narrative.

and notice that's pretty much the structure of our conversations. I post a fact. You flail at it for post after post. At some point you need to realize that the 'conservative entertainment complex' isn't honest with you. Remember how certain you were dems didn't compromise. Remember next I tell you and prove something you just cant believe. Its not me.

The point of the number is that its still growth of government. The "cuts" still dont pare back government enough.

Surrendered. Ok. Whatever, Im sure you back the **** out of that partisan talking point.

The structure of our arguments is you insulting me over and over and dismissing any links I bring up while you cling to one argument and toss out red herrings and nasty remarks. You arent debating, youre throwing partisan bull**** and insults and seeing what you can get away with. Dems didnt intend to compromise, they FULLY intended to circumvent the sequester and couldnt do it. They tried to change certain aspects of it in a number of bills and couldnt get the votes.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

The point of the number is that its still growth of government. The "cuts" still dont pare back government enough.

Surrendered. Ok. Whatever, Im sure you back the **** out of that partisan talking point.

The structure of our arguments is you insulting me over and over and dismissing any links I bring up while you cling to one argument and toss out red herrings and nasty remarks. You arent debating, youre throwing partisan bull**** and insults and seeing what you can get away with. Dems didnt intend to compromise, they FULLY intended to circumvent the sequester and couldnt do it. They tried to change certain aspects of it in a number of bills and couldnt get the votes.

What link did you post to prove dems didn't compromise on spending cuts?

Lets review

Looking for the dem compromise on spending and I cant seem to find it.

And once I proved that statement false, you went on every tangent imaginable. So I may have made some snide remarks but it was because you no longer wanted to discuss your imaginary facts. . OC, when you learn something from me, you should ask yourself why you didnt know it. And OC, I really don't think my snide comments hurt your feelings. I think you are just trying to deflect from the fact that I keep proving you have no idea what you are posting.

And again your points are muddled and unclear. for instance

"Dems didnt intend to compromise, they FULLY intended to circumvent the sequester and couldnt do it"

Dems or republicans intended to circumvent the sequester? It looks like you are saying dems but I know there was a false republican narrative that pubs tried to stop it. You really should only post what you can back up. It would cut down on the number of imaginary facts you post.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

What link did you post to prove dems didn't compromise on spending cuts?

Lets review


And once I proved that statement false, you went on every tangent imaginable. So I may have made some snide remarks but it was because you no longer wanted to discuss your imaginary facts. . OC, when you learn something from me, you should ask yourself why you didnt know it. And OC, I really don't think my snide comments hurt your feelings. I think you are just trying to deflect from the fact that I keep proving you have no idea what you are posting.

And again your points are muddled and unclear. for instance

"Dems didnt intend to compromise, they FULLY intended to circumvent the sequester and couldnt do it"

Dems or republicans intended to circumvent the sequester? It looks like you are saying dems but I know there was a false republican narrative that pubs tried to stop it. You really should only post what you can back up. It would cut down on the number of imaginary facts you post.

Asinine comments like this are why I am sick of you. There is no excuse for making snide remarks other than being unable to make remarks without insulting the other side.

As for the attempts to circumvent the sequester, it was all over every political site for months, if you need cites for that, you need to get better sources.

 

[Vern]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Asinine comments like this are why I am sick of you.

Notice how I don't whine because you said asinine. And you are sick of me posting facts that shred the silly narratives you cling to. its why you don't discuss any facts. You discuss me.

There is no excuse for making snide remarks other than being unable to make remarks without insulting the other side.

again, notice I'm not whining. Again notice you are making the posts about me and not the facts.

As for the attempts to circumvent the sequester, it was all over every political site for months, if you need cites for that, you need to get better sources.

and there it is. I asked you to clarify something and you made a snide comment. I'm going to cry myself to sleep tonight. wait, I'm not a con. Anyhoo, the reason I ask you to clarify is because I'm aware of the facts. I'm not aware the imaginary facts you routinely post. And OC, this is a debate forum. I asked you to clarify a point. You chose to whine instead. see the problem?

I post clear straightforward points and I back them up. what do you do?

 

[sangha]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Reps compromised on revenue increases.

When did the repubs compromise on revenue increases? You're not talking about when the bush* tax cuts expired, are you?

They expired, and the repubs didn't have to the votes to extend them. That's not "compromise"; It's "defeat"

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

When did the repubs compromise on revenue increases? You're not talking about when the bush* tax cuts expired, are you?

They expired, and the repubs didn't have to the votes to extend them. That's not "compromise"; It's "defeat"

Part of the things enacted under the sequester bill were revenue raising measures.

 

[sangha]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Part of the things enacted under the sequester bill were revenue raising measures.

Nonsense

The sequestration went into effect because the repubs wouldn't compromise on increasing revenue

Reid insists on new revenue to turn off sequester - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

 

[Gina]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

You are more polite then most mods when they 'break it up'.

Moderator's Warning:

Please do not comment on Moderator actions.

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Approx 400B to 600B. Some from TARP, which he spent even if he did not authorize it--he voted for it and he administered the program. Some from his budget increases, which were not as tame as you make them to be and were made baseline with no attempt to curtail them in later years, just slow their rate of growth. Approximately 200B from the stimulus as it was spent slowly in the first year of authorization.

Ok, let's go with your $600b, which is wrong, but still ...

Total deficit for FY2009 was $1.9t.

So even using your estimate, that makes it:

Obama: $0.6t
Bush: $1.3t

 

[Sheik Yerbuti]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

How much of the FY2009 deficit do you attribute to Obama?

All of it. Just because something was already budgeted or slated to be spent doesn't mean Obama had to spend it, he could have cancelled Christmas or at least tried.

All of it? That is beyond ridiculous. :rollL Obama wasin't even president for 4 months of FY2009

Ok all of it minus the first 4 months....I'm flexible.

Nah, you've already demonstrated yoou have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Nonsense

The sequestration went into effect because the repubs wouldn't compromise on increasing revenue

Reid insists on new revenue to turn off sequester - The Hill's Blog Briefing Room

Even FactCheck.org doesnt agree with that viewpoint.

factcheck.org : The Sequester Blame Game

The debt ceiling talks were going on and $620B in revenue increases were agreed to in that deal and Obama wanted MORE after that.

 

[OpportunityCost]

Re: CBO estimates 2013 deficit at $642 billion

Ok, let's go with your $600b, which is wrong, but still ...

Total deficit for FY2009 was $1.9t.

So even using your estimate, that makes it:

Obama: $0.6t
Bush: $1.3t

Dude. It was $1.4T