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Catholic Cardinal Takes Exception to the God's-Honest Trooth

They've been AT it for nearly 2000 years.. Coincidentally the same amount of time Evil has been so easily identifiable... Whew! Good thing they were there, huh? I'm not sure where that number came from... another guess on some academics parts I suppose?... In any event it doesn't take me very long to look at a hot horseshoe... They've been at the very tip of the Spear for soooo long in sooooo many genocides the actual number must be FAR higher than that... perhaps inconceivable. Do you doubt it?

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The argument that the Church was responsible for Nazi atrocities is weak.

And no, they haven't been at "the tip of the spear" either. You will need to make a better case.
 
It isn't unique to religion either. People are awful. Groups of people have more power so have the potential to be more awful. When has this ever not been the case?

Never. At least since the Jewish Priests set up the Christ twins a couple thousand years ago in the most successful switcheroo in all CE history!

It is their "rules" that are so fascinating, to me at least... It's as if they think the strict interpretation of the current set of arbitrary laws somehow erases culpability in murder itself... "I was JUST following orders!" "I was JUST doing my JOB!" "I was TOLD to do it" "I followed the rules"... a sort-of... tuneless whine that the talentless make when threatened...
 
Never. At least since the Jewish Priests set up the Christ twins a couple thousand years ago in the most successful switcheroo in all CE history!

.... wut?

It is their "rules" that are so fascinating, to me at least... It's as if they think the strict interpretation of the current set of arbitrary laws somehow erases culpability in murder itself... "I was JUST following orders!" "I was JUST doing my JOB!" "I was TOLD to do it" "I followed the rules"... a sort-of... tuneless whine that the talentless make when threatened...

Who are you talking about?
 
The argument that the Church was responsible for Nazi atrocities is weak.

And no, they haven't been at "the tip of the spear" either. You will need to make a better case.

Really? And after I just got done reading the ten Commandments of Logic in here too... The argument is NOT that the Catholics were responsible for Nazi atrocities... the argument IS that the NAZIS were Catholics.
 
This is going to be a little bit out of order.... plus, it's going to take quite a while... Please bear with me, I'll toss in a few amusing genocide trivia pieces every so often to keep the subject light...

Catholic Church Apologizes for Role in Rwandan Genocide

800,000 - (ACTUALLY well over 1.1 million, but who's counting? And THAT'S just in ten days!)
 
Well, no. But even if it were true, so what?

Hitler's mother was a devout catholic and Hitler revered his mother. When Hitler's mother died he decorated her grave in Nazi symbols, not catholic ones as she would have preferred.

If you look at Nazi propaganda, Hitler tried to commandeer the messiah figurehead.



Really? And after I just got done reading the ten Commandments of Logic in here too... The argument is NOT that the Catholics were responsible for Nazi atrocities... the argument IS that the NAZIS were Catholics.
 
Well, no. But even if it were true, so what?

Hitler's mother was a devout catholic and Hitler revered his mother. When Hitler's mother died he decorated her grave in Nazi symbols, not catholic ones as she would have preferred.

If you look at Nazi propaganda, Hitler tried to commandeer the messiah figurehead.

OH! and the SPEAR, right!... The late NAZI Party were Catholics, but, apparently, non-observant ones? The leader HIMSELF was a proud Catholic... Odd, isn't it? Maybe it wasn't his "Naziness" that was the problem? But just be patient, I'll finish up on the Nazis and the Catholics after the counting is done...

priests_salute_hitler.webp
 
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I think you have some issues, bruh.



children-salutes-flag-Kaufmann-Settlement-1934.jpg



OH! and the SPEAR, right!... The late NAZI Party were Catholics, but, apparently, non-observant ones? The leader HIMSELF was a proud Catholic... Odd, isn't it? Maybe it wasn't his "Naziness" that was the problem? But just be patient, I'll finish up on the Nazis and the Catholics after the counting is done...

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So, where are we?...

800,000; 1,500,000; and we're not even out of the TWENTIETH CENTURY... OH! How about Vietnam! Sure we made up the Gulf of Tonkin story to get in there and help the CATHOLICS! The Diem regime wasn't it?.. Oh my GOSH there was some killing and raping going on THERE let me tell you.. How do we grade that one? 4,058,000? Well that's more people right THERE then Hitler is credited with killing JEWS! But... darn it... he didn't kill all those Jews now did he?... Nuh-uh... The Poles took the opportunity to purge their Jewish neighbors... LOTS of people did. For SOME reason they were IMMENSELY disliked in Europe... not like now...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buddhist_crisis

4,058,000
1,500,000
800,000

That's uh, quite a few.... and yet... they still have a voice in how the world is administered... How is that possible?... Did Herr Hitler actually kill anybody himself?.. Does anyone know?.. Was he directly responsible for anyone's death other than his own?... Hmm... well that's SOMETHING anyway!...
 
.... wut?

It's a theory I'm working on. Jesus was a twin... an identical twin. For 30 pieces of silver the construction brother had the lunatic messiah brother murdered.... then took his place a few days later.
 
jmotivator;1067614470 Who are you talking about?[/QUOTE said:
The nameless "groups" of awful people you referenced.
 
Resles Leggs said:
What number were you thinking of?

Not a number, just as such, but some indication of why you think that's the number. How one conceptualizes what it means for the church to be responsible is crucial if you're going to take a harsh line.

It's certainly true that some Popes, Archbishops, Bishops, and Priests have done some really nasty things. But it's also true that the church has had some voices of profound ethical sensitivity. In my view, it seems very difficult to say there is, at any one time, a will of the church--and if that's true, it's hard to blame the church for any act of commission, which necessarily involves will.

The church can be blamed, I think, for omissions, and many of those are pretty bad. It ommitted to investigate clergy who were abusing and molesting children, and arguably continues to omit to do so. We might say that the church can be blamed for creating an atmosphere that condoned horrific atrocities--but then, what should we say about those within the church who fought against such atrocities? In short, I'm not apologist for the church, but I caution against going overboard. A careful argument for why the church should be thought responsible for whatever crimes of which they may be accused.
 
Hey! Who can forget THIS guy!...

columbus.webp

I was down in the islands a short while ago... LOVELY little museum there showing the three spoons and five bowls which remain of the indigenous culture... Best guesses say another million give or take a couple hundred thousand... After dinner I'm told Chris enjoyed hunting the heathen natives on horseback...

You'll notice he's looking hungrily at the pigeons on top of the new clothesline...
 
Not a number, just as such, but some indication of why you think that's the number. How one conceptualizes what it means for the church to be responsible is crucial if you're going to take a harsh line.

It's certainly true that some Popes, Archbishops, Bishops, and Priests have done some really nasty things. But it's also true that the church has had some voices of profound ethical sensitivity. In my view, it seems very difficult to say there is, at any one time, a will of the church--and if that's true, it's hard to blame the church for any act of commission, which necessarily involves will.

The church can be blamed, I think, for omissions, and many of those are pretty bad. It ommitted to investigate clergy who were abusing and molesting children, and arguably continues to omit to do so. We might say that the church can be blamed for creating an atmosphere that condoned horrific atrocities--but then, what should we say about those within the church who fought against such atrocities? In short, I'm not apologist for the church, but I caution against going overboard. A careful argument for why the church should be thought responsible for whatever crimes of which they may be accused.

A very reasonable request. I'll think about your excellent question and respond in a bit.
 
It occurs to me that the REASON the Catholic Church never seems to land on its back is contained in the question you're asking: How do you define the term "responsible for."

It is impossible to reconstruct history accurately across such a broad span of time. It is impossible to accurately apportion blame for what happened THEN, now... so technically, there IS no real number is there?... I mean... the Church didn't PHYSICALLY commit genocide in the case of the Jews over centuries... but they certainly attended the "punishments" regularly.... It's funny, as I follow your line of thought I can now see the entire process clearly... Because there is no ONE to pillory, you can, therefore, not justify pillorying anyone! for... well... pillorying people in God's name... Even the POPE answers to GOD... and GOD... isn't here to answer for his crimes, is he? Even if he was.. he is well-known for working in mysterious ways isn't he?... It'd be HARD to judge God's intent... when, after all.. God knows.
 
Yeah, I get it... THIS is why I think the Catholic Church was created BY Jewish Priests/scholars... They MADE IT UP. It's the PERFECT... PERFECT... way of controlling the mob... I get it..

They had identical twins way back when - not a heck of a lot of virgins, but I don't know the actual number so I'd better not mention it... What if you found two clueless identical twins and spun a story around the "Miracle" of their "resurrection?" It's SUCH a good idea how could it possibly NOT be TRUE! A religion replete with gold mansions AFTER you die... a debt that is repaid only AFTER its owner dies... it's the ULTIMATE scam... and BEST of all, there's NO ONE to be held responsible!

When you hear a truth... you know it, don't you?...

"We didn't TELL you to go on those Crusades, now did we?"
 
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They paid the Carpenter brother to betray his... lunatic messiah brother... for 30 pieces of silver... Judas wasn't a traitor, per se... he was just the delivery boy...
 
The STIGMATA!... I'd always wondered... holes in his HANDS... but nails through the hands wouldn't have held him up there... they would've had to go through his wrists to do that... but all the subsequent representations show holes in the palms... they couldn't HOPE to keep the carpenter alive if they'd driven the NEW nails through his wrists... He was a ballsy individual that boy, wasn't he?
 
That's how it was done wasn't it... A few Jews cooked up a scam to bewilder the natives and make some money. Get rid of a couple of idiots at the same time... and it worked... That's what happened... 100 years later folks were STILL talking about it... and SOMEBODY had an idea!... SOMEBODY figured out a way to piggyback on the OLD scam... forever!... and then they needed to figure out how to deal with the REST of the Arabs?... They needed a local twist... POOF! Mohammad! Same God... just a slightly different story... tailored for Semites...

Remember how often sentient people asked why the major religions seemed to occur at or around the same period of history?... Of COURSE they did!...
 
Cardinal Dolan responds to Bannon's 'insulting' remarks - BBC News

Yeah, he's offended by suggestions of a pervert priest plague too... Why is the World's Greatest Mass Murderer, the Catholic Church, regarded as having any opinion whatsoever?... Hitler is reviled for his "EVILNESS" but somehow these guys skate through year after year... century after century? What HAS the Catholic Church ever been RIGHT about?...


Century after century. Year after year. Day-to-day. Even with the most liberal Pope ever, the Catholic Church continues to deny.
 
Well, I hope I've answered your question, Ashurbanipal... and I thank you for asking it.. each time I interact with someone else on the subject I realize a new piece of the story. Bless you... :}
 
Century after century. Year after year. Day-to-day. Even with the most liberal Pope ever, the Catholic Church continues to deny.

I know... it's appalling they are never held to account and are left in peace to apologize 500 years later... What a racket!...
 
I know... it's appalling they are never held to account and are left in peace to apologize 500 years later... What a racket!...


At least, there is progress.
 
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