Catalan separatists sentenced to prison

[PeteEU]

Yup, this will only inflame calls for independence and possibly renewed terrorism...

Terrorism? Not exactly the Catalan way....

Sent from my Honor 8X

 

[Sven Karma]

Terrorism? Not exactly the Catalan way....

Sent from my Honor 8X

Eh, Terra Lliure - Wikipedia

 

[Chagos]

Meanwhile Catalonians are rioting in significant numbers and a general strike is supposed to happen on Friday or Saturday. It seems Catalonian nationalism and separatism has not been dampened by the harsh sentences meted out by the Sppanish legal system m" but has rather been inflamed. Hearts burn and minds freeze in the throes of the passion for identity. What can be done?

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

For starters (regarding the bolded) one can take into account that there is no majority in Catalonia for Catalan independence. That should not serve to dismiss the number of independentistas as a small minority but the difference (percentage-wise) to those not wanting independence is considerably larger than, to quote a current example, that between UK Leavers and Remainers.

For soup, the rioting of the extent and nature we currently see is not representative of the vast majority of independentistas, on the contrary, most condemn it as being totally detrimental to their cause.

For the main course, Spain is governed from Madrid on the national basis (regional parliaments of lesser authority notwithstanding) and not from Barcelona. A little but nevertheless significant item that the Catalans not only agreed to when the constitution was put to the national vote, but actually helped writing into that same constitution.

For dessert (finally) those Catalans clamoring for independence and, more idiotically, constantly pre-occupied with an inflated sense of identity, are in convenient denial of their real origin. Which stems from the fact that the Romans, upon their retreat from the Iberian peninsula, left the footsore and the venereal behind at the Spanish side of the Pyrenees, so as to traverse the mountains more easily and thus get home faster.:mrgreen:

 

[Evilroddy]

For starters (regarding the bolded) one can take into account that there is no majority in Catalonia for Catalan independence. That should not serve to dismiss the number of independentistas as a small minority but the difference (percentage-wise) to those not wanting independence is considerably larger than, to quote a current example, that between UK Leavers and Remainers.

For soup, the rioting of the extent and nature we currently see is not representative of the vast majority of independentistas, on the contrary, most condemn it as being totally detrimental to their cause.

For the main course, Spain is governed from Madrid on the national basis (regional parliaments of lesser authority notwithstanding) and not from Barcelona. A little but nevertheless significant item that the Catalans not only agreed to when the constitution was put to the national vote, but actually helped writing into that same constitution.

For dessert (finally) those Catalans clamoring for independence and, more idiotically, constantly pre-occupied with an inflated sense of identity, are in convenient denial of their real origin. Which stems from the fact that the Romans, upon their retreat from the Iberian peninsula, left the footsore and the venereal behind at the Spanish side of the Pyrenees, so as to traverse the mountains more easily and thus get home faster.:mrgreen:

Chagos:

To the Roman dregs you might add some Ligurians, some other Celts, some Greeks, some Visigoths, some Umayyad Arabs/Berbers, some Carolingians, some Medieval French, some Hapsburgs, some Aragonese, some Bourbon French and others. Catalonia has a long and varied history only partially connected to the Kingdom of Aragon and thus the present day nation state of Spain. The Catalonians have also being trying to get out of Aragonese, Castilian and Aragonese, Bourbon, and more modern iterations of centralising power since the mid 17th century IIRC so this separatist impulse is old and deeply rooted IMHO.

As to polls:

Catalan separtist drive: New survey shows more Catalans reject independence movement than support it | In English | EL PAIS

So my question is repeated. What can be done? Or can it only be managed and ridden out ad infinitum?

You did serve up a nice menu however. Most satisfying until the mention of the venereal; that was off-putting to the enjoyment of the whole otherwise sumptuous spread! But enough of the food criticism.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

 

[PeteEU]

Eh, Terra Lliure - Wikipedia

Well technically they were terrorists because the state called them that. But lets be fair here and point out these terrorists killed more of themselves in accidents than actual attacks.

And one would have thought that the Catalans would have risen up a tad earlier like thier Basque cousins considering the abuses Franco put them through.

Sent from my Honor 8X

 

[Chagos]

Chagos:

To the Roman dregs you might add some Ligurians, some other Celts, some Greeks, some Visigoths, some Umayyad Arabs/Berbers, some Carolingians, some Medieval French, some Hapsburgs, some Aragonese, some Bourbon French and others. Catalonia has a long and varied history only partially connected to the Kingdom of Aragon and thus the present day nation state of Spain. The Catalonians have also being trying to get out of Aragonese, Castilian and Aragonese, Bourbon, and more modern iterations of centralising power since the mid 17th century IIRC so this separatist impulse is old and deeply rooted IMHO.

So my question is repeated. What can be done? Or can it only be managed and ridden out ad infinitum?

You did serve up a nice menu however. Most satisfying until the mention of the venereal; that was off-putting to the enjoyment of the whole otherwise sumptuous spread! But enough of the food criticism.

Cheers.
Evilroddy.

I was referring to the Catalan language which is derived from a vulgar Latin that the Romans of class did not speak. IOW reserved for the dregs.:2razz:

Fun fact (seeing how we're on food), the Basques' perpetual discontent originated with establishment of pilgrims' inns along the St. Jacob's Way to Compostela. Those relieved pilgrims from the inconvenience of crapping by the road side but also deprived the Basques of their chief source of nourishment. :lol:

As to what can be done wrt to the deranged : fence large areas of the place off. The principle of closed wards for the chronically insane shouldn't be limited by space.

 

[Sven Karma]

Talking of insane delusions, the Catalan government supports the New History Institute which is busy proving that "history has been systematically manipulated by the Spanish (or "Castilian") state since the 15th century to eliminate the Catalan contribution to world history. They claim that major historical figures, including Christopher Columbus, Erasmus, Miguel de Cervantes, William Shakespeare, Leonardo da Vinci, Saint Teresa of Ávila and others were Catalan."

Institut Nova Historia - Wikipedia

 

[Chagos]

Talking of insane delusions, the Catalan government supports the New History Institute which is busy proving that "history has been systematically manipulated by the Spanish (or "Castilian") state since the 15th century to eliminate the Catalan contribution to world history. They claim that major historical figures, including Christopher Columbus, Erasmus, Miguel de Cervantes, William Shakespeare, Leonardo da Vinci, Saint Teresa of Ávila and others were Catalan."

Institut Nova Historia - Wikipedia

The Earth is flat and it's Catalan.

 

[Sven Karma]

The Earth is flat and it's Catalan.

... waste water analysis reveals that Barcelona is European #1 city for cocaine consumption. Spanish article, scientific stuff is in 'Addiction'. Barcelona es la ciudad donde mas drogas se consume Puigdemont's lawyer is under investigation for money-laundering, one of his other clients is a top Galician coke importer ...

#2 Zurich #3 Antwerp, hotbed city of the dumbass that is Flemish separatism :screwy :lamo

 

[Chagos]

... waste water analysis reveals that Barcelona is European #1 city for cocaine consumption. Spanish article, scientific stuff is in 'Addiction'. Barcelona es la ciudad donde mas drogas se consume Puigdemont's lawyer is under investigation for money-laundering, one of his other clients is a top Galician coke importer ...

#2 Zurich #3 Antwerp, hotbed city of the dumbass that is Flemish separatism :screwy :lamo

s'plains much:lol:

 

[PeteEU]

... waste water analysis reveals that Barcelona is European #1 city for cocaine consumption. Spanish article, scientific stuff is in 'Addiction'. Barcelona es la ciudad donde mas drogas se consume Puigdemont's lawyer is under investigation for money-laundering, one of his other clients is a top Galician coke importer ...

#2 Zurich #3 Antwerp, hotbed city of the dumbass that is Flemish separatism :screwy :lamo

London is nr 1, Barcelona is nr 2.

Sent from my SM-T720 using Tapatalk

 

[Sven Karma]

London is nr 1, Barcelona is nr 2.

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I'm sorry, which bit of ... Los datos sitúan a la Ciudad Condal en el primer puesto internacional de las ciudades monitorizadas en consumo de cocaína, por delante de Zúrich y Amberes ... don't you understand?

 

[PeteEU]

I'm sorry, which bit of ... Los datos sitúan a la Ciudad Condal en el primer puesto internacional de las ciudades monitorizadas en consumo de cocaína, por delante de Zúrich y Amberes ... don't you understand?

Londoners snort 23kg of cocaine a day... twice as much as any other European city | London Evening Standard

London snorts more coke than Barcelona, Amsterdam and Berlin combined | Metro News

Just Google London Cocaine....

London consumes more cocaine than the next 3 combined...that includes Barcelona.



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[Sven Karma]

Londoners snort 23kg of cocaine a day... twice as much as any other European city | London Evening Standard

London snorts more coke than Barcelona, Amsterdam and Berlin combined | Metro News

Just Google London Cocaine....

London consumes more cocaine than the next 3 combined...that includes Barcelona.

Well, given its size advantage, London probably consumes more of everything than anywhere else, so that's not exactly a surprise. As one of your links says 'the rate consumed per person is less than that of Bristol'.

 

[PeteEU]

Well, given its size advantage, London probably consumes more of everything than anywhere else, so that's not exactly a surprise. As one of your links says 'the rate consumed per person is less than that of Bristol'.

Well yea if we do it per capita then.. The point was that the original study did it in total kg of a city and that puts London way ahead.

Bet if they went into towns then per capita there would be some small town where the numbers are nuts.

Sent from my Honor 8X

 

[Sven Karma]

Well yea if we do it per capita then.. The point was that the original study did it in total kg of a city and that puts London way ahead.

Bet if they went into towns then per capita there would be some small town where the numbers are nuts.

Sent from my Honor 8X

Or if not the drug itself, small towns where the numbers for metabolites of stuff cocaine gets cut with are nuts.

 

[Chagos]

Or if not the drug itself, small towns where the numbers for metabolites of stuff cocaine gets cut with are nuts.

I reckon some of the brains up there are wired in such a manner as to produce their own "psychotropics".

The tramuntana clearly doesn't help much either.

 

[Sven Karma]

I reckon some of the brains up there are wired in such a manner as to produce their own "psychotropics".

The tramuntana clearly doesn't help much either.

At some point when we were there the ERC electoral slogan was 'Hallucinate!'

Dunno 'bout the tramuntana, on the coast there was one particular wind off the sea that really did your head in, but the Catalan gov't education syllabus probably doesn't help - who knows what nonsense their history, genetics and politics course books may have been indoctrinating the past couple of decades on the 'Catalunya is not Spain' front. And a side-glance at the way TV-3 operates.

Puigdemont's strategy is pretty transparent; he wants to create and lead a unified political force like what the SNP is. But Scotland has what Catalunya doesn't, demonstrable long periods of self-governance to call on. Despite their attempts to rewrite history, the Catalans have basically specialized through the centuries in clinging onto everyone else's petticoats when push comes to shove. Not to minimize the atrocities of the Spanish Civil War on the day of his corpse eviction, but it's a fact that it took the Francoist forces one whole hour to recapture Barcelona in 1939.

Yeah, psychotropic is the word, even for the more briefly resident. Why co-founder of Vox and former leader of the PP in Catalunya Alejo Vidal-Quadras is the only politician 'libertarian left' me follows on Twitter and is one of the few anywhere whom I have any respect for is quite the long story. Spoiler: it involves use of the word 'apartheid' to describe Catalan society.

 

[Sven Karma]

Urgent! Battle-hardened Catalan separatist students who've set up camp in Barcelona are in need of ... gluten-free food: Public support for students' protest camp in Barcelona's placa Universitat

 

[Chagos]

Urgent! Battle-hardened Catalan separatist students who've set up camp in Barcelona are in need of ... gluten-free food: Public support for students' protest camp in Barcelona's placa Universitat

.........did they forget to mention their lactose intolerance?

 

[Sven Karma]

.........did they forget to mention their lactose intolerance?

No need, everyone knows about the Catalans and their intolerance!

 

[Sven Karma]

Judge reveals Puigdemont's "demands" to not proclaim independence in extradition warrants

Whiner. Further on in the article it comes to light that, apart from his health budget misappropriations, in order to find polling stations for their illegal referendum the Catalan Health minister ' ... fired the representatives of 29 health consortiums...'

 

[Raptor]

As a well-off Catalan myself, I see this from two perspectives. I would personally love to see an independent Catalonia, however, I believe that there is also a small chance that an independent Catalonia will fail dramatically.

I personally believe that the imprisonment of the Catalan 'separatists' is a little harsh, many in Catalonia see them as freedom fighters, not separatists.

I would love to see if we can have a civilized debate on whether Catalonia is going to be independent!

 

[Sven Karma]

Well, uh, benvingut ('welcome') @Raptor.

One thing I'm looking forward to about your putative Catalan independence will be watching FC Barcelona play in the Liga Catalana, because that's what the football teams of independent countries do, isn't it, they play in their own national leagues - and not in the leagues of neighbouring foreign countries.

 

[Chagos]

Well, uh, benvingut ('welcome') @Raptor.

One thing I'm looking forward to about your putative Catalan independence will be watching FC Barcelona play in the Liga Catalana, because that's what the football teams of independent countries do, isn't it, they play in their own national leagues - and not in the leagues of neighbouring foreign countries.

:lol: