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Capitalism is Incompatible with Christianity

RAMOSS said:
If they were forgeries , then that is a strong indication that they were not truthful.
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After more review, they were forged well beyond the time of Domitian though; perhaps as late as the middle of the 2nd century CE. This would also explain the author's desire to rationalize the "lateness" of the "2nd coming" to prevent their numbers from diminishing further in the face of brutal Roman persecution. "Stay the course!"


OM
 
RAMOSS said:
This is what is known as using loaded terms and inflammation terminology as arguments.
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It's really not complicated. In an agrarian economy, you can redistribute land. In an industrial economy, you can redistribute capital. But in a knowledge-based economy, you can't redistribute brains. :shrug:
 
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ataraxia said:
This sounds real good. The problem is that long experience has shown that charity alone is not a substitute for proper, formal, competent systems of laws and safety nets for the poor. Just like leaving a busy intersection up to the freedom and judgment of individual drivers does not work as well as a well-functioning traffic light.
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Winston Churchill had a belief that if you cut off their charity the poor will have to scramble to find work.

Unfortunately there isn't enough money to satisfy poor people and the liberals. California tries, but that place is turning into tent city.
 
Logicman said:
Winston Churchill had a belief that if you cut off their charity the poor will have to scramble to find work.

Unfortunately there isn't enough money to satisfy poor people and the liberals. California tries, but that place is turning into tent city.
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Winston Churchill also had the belief that Gallipoli was a good idea.

He was a bit.....erratic
 
Ahlevah said:
It's really not complicated. In an agrarian economy, you can redistribute land. In an industrial economy, you can redistribute capital. But in a knowledge-based economy, you can't redistribute brains. :shrug:
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That is speculation. Let's see you show how a 'knowledge based economy' would work and be implemented. Define how it would work... and then show it could work.

If you can't o that, then you are just making things up.
 
RAMOSS said:
That is speculation. Let's see you show how a 'knowledge based economy' would work and be implemented. Define how it would work... and then show it could work.
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Where have you been? Earlier in this thread, I gave several examples as to how large fortunes--and swaths of the U.S. economy--were created with little more than human capital. Jan Koum invented an app. Where was the "means of production"? In his head--writing code. He took $250,000 in seed money, created a company, and sold it to Facebook for $19 billion. And what about Facebook? Computer code--initially, from Mark Zuckerberg's head. He was a billionaire before he reached his 24th birthday. Take Google, Facebook, Oracle, and Microsoft and you have companies collectively worth about $2.5 trillion, or almost as much as the value of the GDP of Great Britain. Very little of their revenue is derived from selling "things." Most of the value was derived from people sitting in cubicles writing millions of lines of code. I suppose you could say the office chairs and computers are "capital," but they're all but worthless without the brainpower.
 
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Ahlevah said:
Where have you been? Earlier in this thread, I gave several examples as to how large fortunes--and swaths of the U.S. economy--are created with little more than human capital. Jan Koum invented an app. Where was the "means of production"? In his head--writing code. He took $250,000 in seed money, created a company, and sold it to Facebook for $19 billion. And what about Facebook? Computer code--initially, from Mark Zuckerberg's head. He was a billionaire before he reached his 24th birthday. Take Google, Facebook, and Microsoft and you have companies collectively worth about $3 trillion, or more than the value of the GDP of Great Britain. Very little of their revenue is derived from selling "things." Most of the value was derived from people sitting in cubicles writing millions or lines of code.
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That's not knowledge. That's information, which is different.. Personal information too. And also 'service'.
 
Elvira said:
What do you think perfection is? Being without sin...
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Not necessarily. Sin is simply defying the commands of God. One could not defy God and still not be perfect.
 
Ahlevah said:
Where have you been? Earlier in this thread, I gave several examples as to how large fortunes--and swaths of the U.S. economy--were created with little more than human capital. Jan Koum invented an app. Where was the "means of production"? In his head--writing code. He took $250,000 in seed money, created a company, and sold it to Facebook for $19 billion. And what about Facebook? Computer code--initially, from Mark Zuckerberg's head. He was a billionaire before he reached his 24th birthday. Take Google, Facebook, Oracle, and Microsoft and you have companies collectively worth about $2.5 trillion, or almost as much as the value of the GDP of Great Britain. Very little of their revenue is derived from selling "things." Most of the value was derived from people sitting in cubicles writing millions of lines of code. I suppose you could say the office chairs and computers are "capital," but they're all but worthless without the brainpower.
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All you demonstrated is these people provided a lot of products and services to people who wanted it.

The means of production of writing the code would be the software and hardware used to develop and test the code. Every human idea starts in a human brain. [emoji2357]
 
RAMOSS said:
That's not knowledge. That's information, which is different.. Personal information too. And also 'service'.
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I didn't invent the term "knowledge-based economy" or "knowledge economy," but, whatever you want to call it, these companies are not part of an industrial or agrarian economy.

The knowledge economy is a system of consumption and production that is based on intellectual capital. It typically represents a large component of all economic activity in developed countries. In a knowledge economy, a significant part of a company's value may consist of intangible assets such as the value of its workers' knowledge or intellectual capital.

Knowledge Economy
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My point remains: The value comes from knowledge--the knowledge to write computer code, create, design--in short, the ability to store, recall, and manipulate information. Karl Marx's economy in Das Kapital is an anachornism in this day and age.
 
Ahlevah said:
I didn't invent the term "knowledge-based economy" or "knowledge economy," but, whatever you want to call it, these companies are not part of an industrial or agrarian economy.



My point remains: The value comes from knowledge--the knowledge to write computer code, create, design--in short, the ability to store, recall, and manipulate information. Karl Marx's economy in Das Kapital is an anachornism in this day and age.
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The knowledge is worthless without the capital to produce it. Is that in Das Kapital?
 
Aberration said:
All you demonstrated is these people provided a lot of products and services to people who wanted it.

The means of production of writing the code would be the software and hardware used to develop and test the code. Every human idea starts in a human brain. [emoji2357]
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I've demonstrated that tremendous value and wealth can be created with little more than human capital. So any scheme to redistribute the "means of production," when that production is derived largely from human intellect and not physical capital, is just not facing the reality of a modern, developed economy.
 
Aberration said:
The knowledge is worthless without the capital to produce it. Is that in Das Kapital?
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Can you elaborate on that statement? I'm not sure where you're going with it. All I can say is I don't think Marx anticipated Facebook, but if you think the value comes from physical capital and not intellectual capital, you can have the water coolers and office chairs and I'll take the brains. ;)
 
NWO_Spook said:
Not necessarily and your supercilious eyeroll merely denotes that you haven't given it much thought.
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More thought than you evidently...the Hebrew word translated “sin” is chattath...in Greek the word is hamartia....in both languages the verb means “miss," in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point...Greek writers often used hamartano in regards to a spearman missing his target...both of these words were used to mean missing or failing to reach, not merely physical objects or goals but also moral or intellectual goals or marks...Proverbs 8:35, 36 says the one finding godly wisdom finds life, but the one missing...from Hebrew, chatath...wisdom is doing violence to his soul, leading to death....in the Scriptures both the Hebrew and Greek terms refer mainly to sinning on the part of God’s intelligent creatures, their missing the mark of perfection with regard to their Creator...
 
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Elvira said:
More thought than you evidently
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Obviously not, as you can't even stay focussed. We were discussing the definition of 'perfect' not 'sin'.

..the Hebrew word translated “sin” is chattath...in Greek the word is hamartia....in both languages the verb means “miss," in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point...Greek writers often used hamartano in regards to a spearman missing his target...both of these words were used to mean missing or failing to reach, not merely physical objects or goals but also moral or intellectual goals or marks...Proverbs 8:35, 36 says the one finding godly wisdom finds life, but the one missing...from Hebrew, chatath...wisdom is doing violence to his soul, leading to death....in the Scriptures both the Hebrew and Greek terms refer mainly to sinning on the part of God’s intelligent creatures, their missing the mark of perfection with regard to their Creator...
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All immaterial to the definition of the word 'perfect' in our language.

Perfect: having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. ideal, model, without fault, faultless, flawless, consummate, quintessential, exemplary, best, best-example, etc.

And the temple rage incident can be viewed as a flaw.
 
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NWO_Spook said:
Obviously not, as you can't even stay focussed. We were discussing the definition of 'perfect' not 'sin'.



All immaterial to the definition of the word 'perfect' in our language.
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It is you who can't stay focused...sin is imperfection, therefore lack of sin equals perfection...sorry you can't comprehend that...
 
Elvira said:
It is you who can't stay focused...sin is imperfection, therefore lack of sin equals perfection...sorry you can't comprehend that...
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Are you capable of honest debate without all the attacks and empty sophistry?

Again, Perfect: having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. ideal, model, without fault, faultless, flawless, consummate, quintessential, exemplary, best, best-example, etc.

I cannot believe I actually had to define 'perfect'. Anyway, the temple rage incident can be viewed as anything but exemplary.
 
NWO_Spook said:
Are you capable of honest debate without all the attacks and empty sophistry?

Again, Perfect: having all the required or desirable elements, qualities, or characteristics; as good as it is possible to be. ideal, model, without fault, faultless, flawless, consummate, quintessential, exemplary, best, best-example, etc.

I cannot believe I actually had to define 'perfect'. Anyway, the temple rage incident can be viewed as anything but exemplary.
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lol...you just defined being without sin...SMH...
 
NWO_Spook said:
And much more, as it also supports my original claim. Thanks for answering my question, though.
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So we agree...Jesus was a perfect man without sin...
 
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