Canada to recognize Palestinian State

[Buster Keaton]

The State of Israel is the occupier of the Occupied Palestinian Territories since 1967. That was a war which the Eshkol Government of Israel chose to start. So the state of Israel is most definitely the aggressor and the military occupying power.

Whose justice? When did the wanton killing of civilians become just? When did using malnutrition and starvation of civilians and destroying their hospitals and other peaceful vital infrastructure become just? When did war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide become just? When did forcibly driving over a million civilians from their homes into concentrated safe-zones which are still subject to regular military attacks become just? When did shooting refugees seeking food become just? Like the actions of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, such behaviours done by agents of the State of Israel are atrocities and only just to those who view the world as members of a cult of death.

No, it is a simple comparison. Even under the worst and most harsh actions of the South African Apartheid regime, killings on the scale of what is being done to Palestinians never reached such levels. When ANC terrorists were caught, they were apprehended, tried and jailed not killed outright and their bodies thrown off rooves or buried in mass graves. These are facts and not antisemitism, IDF soldiers are not just Jews. There are Muslims, Christians and Druze in among their ranks. The atrocities they commit are a function of the choices they male, not their religion or culture they belong to. Your antisemitism accusation is a false accusation and is dismissed. Criticism of the policies of the State of Israel is not antisemitism.

We Canadians have had no faith that the US would fulfil its Article #5 obligations to NATO since the TACO in Chief was first elected.

Was it hate speech when we demanded the prosecution of the leaders and radio influences during and after the Rwandan Genocide? No. I am not accusing Jews of anything. I am accusing Israeli military and political leaders and Israel media influencers of promoting war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide for the actions and advocacy which the have chosen to do. Actions not religion or culture is the meter stick which I am using. I make the same accusations against the waring factions in the Sudanese Civil War, the Russian invasions of Ukraine and the Colombian Civil War. Your actions are what should condemn you when accused and tried for crimes, not your faith, your culture or you flag. Laying out a logical case against accused alleged-criminals is not hate speech, its called justice or the Rule of Law.

States and individuals can decide who they do business with. Just don't buy or sell anything from or to the State of Israel. If a Jew or a former Israeli citizen in Paris or from Yonkers wants to sell you something or buy something from you, hey go ahead. States can level sanctions as they see fit. People and groups up to and including blocs of states can boycott any group or state they wish in free societies or free markets.

Your Hamas terrorist buddies are stealing and hoarding the food supplies and then they are saying that Israel is starving the refugees.
Iran is exploiting the ignorance and hate of the dumb liberals.

 

[Evilroddy]

Your Hamas terrorist buddies are stealing and hoarding the food supplies and then they are saying that Israel is starving the refugees.
Iran is exploiting the ignorance and hate of the dumb liberals.

Buster Keaton:

I have no buddies in Hamas. Palestinian militants are just as responsible for atrocities as the State of Israel is. The State of Israel blocked and cut off all humanitarian aid to Gaza from March until earlier this week. That caused the malnutrition and starvation, not a coordinated campaign of stealing and hoarding food aid by Hamas or any other militant group in Gaza. Yes, gangs including militants are stealing food because they are hungry and are apex predators in the fish-filled barrel which the State of Israel is bombing and shelling while letting no aid into it until recently/ You are falling victim to Israeli Hasbara (disinformation) which is a tool in the State of Israel's wartime and peacetime tool boxes, a tool which is being greatly amplified by your American media and Pro-Israel Federal Government. If you had better access to more balanced and open reportage of what is going on In Gaza and also in the West Bank including East Jerusalem, then you might be less blinkered in your perception and understanding of the full scope of what is happening in around the edges of Israel proper.

Vis a vis Iran, you condemn them now but where were your condemnations when they were helping the US fight ISIL a decade ago? Where were you condemnations when the State of Israel was bombing Syria during its bloody civil war and attacking all sides in that conflict from 2011 until today?

Being against war crimes, crimes against humanity and the intentional deprivation of food, potable water, medicine and medical infrastructure from Gazans by the State of Israel (all leading to genocide) is not ignorance nor hate. It is seeing what is evident and right before your eyes if you just open them and look. What is dumb, induced by allowing yourselves to be led around by your noses through wartime propaganda, is denying the facts and deaths which are occurring right now in Gaza which are fifty-fold greater than the heinous atrocities committed by Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups on Oct. 7th of 2023. Both sides in this conflict are the bad guys but innocent civilians are dying in droves who had no role in the violence except dying themselves. Those civilians are both Israeli hostages in Gaza and tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians in Gaza. This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. This a life vs. death issue. At this point the State of Israel is the greater taker of lives by far and so must be held to account for the killing of civilians it is legally bound to protect as the military occupying power. Wake up and stop being a meat-puppet on strings of well crafted and continuously delivered propaganda from the State of Israel and your own media and government. That is the real ignorance at work here and that is what being dumb is.

Be well and be Safe.
Evilroddy.

 

[multivita-man]

Ain't no way you just typed this with a straight face.



It's a pretty simple concept for anyone with an IQ above room temperature and an ounce of moral responsibility. War happens, I get it. The thing is, some among us believe that when you conduct war, it should be done with certain considerations in mind: like not blowing kids heads off when they try to retrieve food from human aid stations, or dropping bunker busters on civilian living quarters.

Israel has the capability to wage a war of precision, but instead it is choosing to lack discipline and target innocent civilian populations, presumably to demoralize the population so that the area can be ethnically cleansed.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

The State of Israel is the occupier of the Occupied Palestinian Territories since 1967.

That is incorrect. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

That was a war which the Eshkol Government of Israel chose to start. So the state of Israel is most definitely the aggressor and the military occupying power.

That is incorrect. The 1967 war was started by Egypt and Syria.

Whose justice? When did the wanton killing of civilians become just? When did using malnutrition and starvation of civilians and destroying their hospitals and other peaceful vital infrastructure become just? When did war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide become just? When did forcibly driving over a million civilians from their homes into concentrated safe-zones which are still subject to regular military attacks become just? When did shooting refugees seeking food become just? Like the actions of Hamas and other Palestinian militant groups, such behaviours done by agents of the State of Israel are atrocities and only just to those who view the world as members of a cult of death.

This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.

No, it is a simple comparison. Even under the worst and most harsh actions of the South African Apartheid regime, killings on the scale of what is being done to Palestinians never reached such levels. When ANC terrorists were caught, they were apprehended, tried and jailed not killed outright and their bodies thrown off rooves or buried in mass graves. These are facts and not antisemitism, IDF soldiers are not just Jews. There are Muslims, Christians and Druze in among their ranks. The atrocities they commit are a function of the choices they male, not their religion or culture they belong to. Your antisemitism accusation is a false accusation and is dismissed. Criticism of the policies of the State of Israel is not antisemitism.

That is incorrect. When you falsely accuse Jews of imaginary atrocities, that is antisemitism.

Was it hate speech when we demanded the prosecution of the leaders and radio influences during and after the Rwandan Genocide? No.

That is because we were not falsely accusing Jews of imaginary atrocities.

I am not accusing Jews of anything. I am accusing Israeli military and political leaders and Israel media influencers of promoting war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide for the actions and advocacy which the have chosen to do. Actions not religion or culture is the meter stick which I am using.

Disguising hate speech by directing the false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" does not fool anyone.

I make the same accusations against the waring factions in the Sudanese Civil War, the Russian invasions of Ukraine and the Colombian Civil War. Your actions are what should condemn you when accused and tried for crimes, not your faith, your culture or you flag. Laying out a logical case against accused alleged-criminals is not hate speech, its called justice or the Rule of Law.

There is a massive difference between "accusing actual criminals of actual crimes" and "falsely accusing Jews of imaginary crimes".

We Canadians don't need protection from Russia or China.

Good luck.

Just one state has threatened to annex us in the 21st Century. What state could that be, I wonder?

Trump is an idiot. Don't confuse his idiocy with the views of the American people.

Hate speech? I am stating in short form an accurate description of the actions of the State of Israel,

That is incorrect. There is nothing even remotely true about your accusations.

And to stretch the false accusations to the point of falsely accusing them of genocide, that is breathtakingly cruel and sadistic.

not all Israelis and not all Jews who are innocent of such crimes. My criticism is focused on decision makers, military leaders, other ranks and those who are publicly inciting violence. Actions. not Judaism is the litmus test here.

Disguising hate speech by directing the false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" does not fool anyone.

 

[Evilroddy]

That is incorrect. Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005.

Toggle Almendo:

Gaza is only one part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories. As long as the State of Israel occupies any of the land it seized in June of 1967, it is the occupying military power. Furthermore physical presence on the ground in a small piece of territory is not necessary for the purposes of military occupation. The US-led Coalitions which militarily occupied Afghanistan and Iraq did not have boots on the ground in every corner of those countries and yet they were still the military occupiers. There were tracts of land far larger than all of Gaza which were no-go zones except during military raids from further afield. The State of Israel controlled the airspace, the boarders and the coastline of Gaza. Furthermore the IDF physically occupied a security zone on Gazan territory as a band around but within the perimeter of Gaza. So Gaza was and still is occupied territory, even more so since Israel returned in great force after Oct. 2023. Therefore the State of Israel is still the occupying military power in Gaza and thus has a duty and obligation to protect civilians, not to kill them or deny them food, potable water, medicine and vital civilian infrastructure necessary for their survival. Ergo, you are incorrect..

That is incorrect. The 1967 war was started by Egypt and Syria.

Israel launched a surprise attack against the UAR (Egypt) which destroyed much of the UAR Airforce on the ground. Furthermore the State of Israel's leaders lied to the world and claimed that the UAR launched air strikes into Israel proper first. This false claim was quickly disproved and then the State of Israel was forced to find a new pretext for having started the Six-Day War.

This hate speech that you posted is really appalling. Falsely accusing Jews of committing imaginary atrocities is a staple of antisemitism, but falsely accusing them of genocide is beyond the pale of human decency.

Facts are not hate speech. Facts refute erroneous claims like arguing the the present-day State of Israel under the Netanyahu Government is fighting a just war when it is in fact slaughtering noncombatant civilians by the means I stated above despite its duty to protect as the military occupying power. That is not a just war. If the facts are really appalling then you are allergic to reality. No Jews were accused, certain Israelis and the State of Israel were accused by me. The atrocities in Gaza are not imaginary, they are real. If the shoe fits then it fits.

That is incorrect. When you falsely accuse Jews of imaginary atrocities, that is antisemitism.

Prove to me that the Apartheid Government killed 3% of the Black South African population by direct violence in its Homelands and four provinces and you would still have a case that is wanting. I repeat that criticism of the policies of the State of Israel is not antisemitism. Your accusation fails again.

That is because we were not falsely accusing Jews of imaginary atrocities.

continued next post.

 

[Evilroddy]

I have not accused Jews generally at all. I have accused some of the leaders and some of military personnel of the State of Israel, a portion of whom are not Jews to boot. Again your accusation is false and your rebuttal fails miserably. It is you who is using the term Jews repeatedly and since many Jews both inside and outside of the State of Israel are also citing facts and leveling these accusations against that state and its agents, your blanket use of the word Jews is in itself a form of antisemitism as you are ignoring and demonising the subset of all Jews who vigorously oppose the behaviour of the present State of Israel with respect to Gaza and civilian deaths.

Disguising hate speech by directing the false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" does not fool anyone.

Are there any American Jews killing American Palestinians en masse in America or Samoa? If so cite. Are there any British Jews killing British Jews en masse in Britain or Northern Ireland? If so cite. Are there French Jews killing French Palestinians in France or St, Pierre and Miquelon? If so cite. It is Israelis killing Palestinians in Gaza en masse and to a lesser degree in the West Bank and Jerusalem. Please stop accusing me of using the word Jews when I level accusations at Israelis - leaders an some military personnel as well as some paramilitary units. It is you who is trying to shove the word Jews into my mouth. I don't blame Jews I blame people based on their actions.

There is a massive difference between "accusing actual criminals of actual crimes" and "falsely accusing Jews of imaginary crimes".

Jews is your word not mine. The accusations are based in fact, not imagination and are not disproved by some desperate denialist delusion which blinds certain other posters on this forum.

Good luck.

Why, thank you. We may need it, but more likely not.

Trump is an idiot. Don't confuse his idiocy with the views of the American people.

Mussolini was an idiot but still managed to wreck many live through war and nearly destroyed his country. It is my opinion that Mussolini was a less dim bulb then Mr. Trump. However they are both at heart thugs and thus follow a thug playbook.

That is incorrect. There is nothing even remotely true about your accusations.

And to stretch the false accusations to the point of falsely accusing them of genocide, that is breathtakingly cruel and sadistic.

Hmmm. That is some far out hyperbole.

Disguising hate speech by directing the false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" does not fool anyone.

I am not trying to fool anyone. I am stating facts and then making accusations based on those facts. If that is so disturbing to you then I suggest you retreat to your much loved Narnia which you keep referring to. Israelis are human beings and as human beings they have good and bad people in their population. Unfortunately for Israel the present leadership of the State of Israel contains human beings in key positions of power who are arguably sociopaths and are driving state policies which are manifestly homicidal and evil. If you can't handle that, then that is beyond my capacity to change in you. So you deal with that. You will continue to attempt to silence other legitimate critics of the policies of the State of Israel with fusillades antisemitism declamation but it will have no effect on me because I know my own heart and I have a strong moral compass to guide me. There are true antisemites on this forum and unfortunately your tactics are giving them cover by neutering the gravity of real antisemitism.

As a final note. I no longer feel comfortable conducting this debate in the Canada forum as the issues we have been tangling over belong in the Israel-Palestine forum which is under martial law. That is now where I will respond to your profoundly irresponsible post if I feel it is worth the trouble.

Be well, be safe and consider being less abrasive and strident in your debating style, please.
Evilroddy.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

Gaza is only one part of the Occupied Palestinian Territories.

Maybe right now. But Gaza was not being occupied before the October 7 attacks.

As long as the State of Israel occupies any of the land it seized in June of 1967, it is the occupying military power.

Not if they annex the land.

Furthermore physical presence on the ground in a small piece of territory is not necessary for the purposes of military occupation. The US-led Coalitions which militarily occupied Afghanistan and Iraq did not have boots on the ground in every corner of those countries and yet they were still the military occupiers. There were tracts of land far larger than all of Gaza which were no-go zones except during military raids from further afield. The State of Israel controlled the airspace, the boarders and the coastline of Gaza. Furthermore the IDF physically occupied a security zone on Gazan territory as a band around but within the perimeter of Gaza. So Gaza was and still is occupied territory,

That is incorrect. Gaza was not being occupied before the October 7 attacks.

even more so since Israel returned in great force after Oct. 2023.

Well, yes. It is being occupied now. And rightly so.

Therefore the State of Israel is still the occupying military power in Gaza and thus has a duty and obligation to protect civilians, not to kill them or deny them food, potable water, medicine and vital civilian infrastructure necessary for their survival. Ergo, you are incorrect..

My comment was in reference to the period before the October 7 attacks.

Israel launched a surprise attack against the UAR (Egypt) which destroyed much of the UAR Airforce on the ground. Furthermore the State of Israel's leaders lied to the world and claimed that the UAR launched air strikes into Israel proper first. This false claim was quickly disproved and

Israel was defending themselves in 1967.

then the State of Israel was forced to find a new pretext for having started the Six-Day War.

That is incorrect. Israel did not start the 1967 war.

Facts are not hate speech. Facts refute erroneous claims like arguing the the present-day State of Israel under the Netanyahu Government is fighting a just war when it is in fact slaughtering noncombatant civilians by the means I stated above despite its duty to protect as the military occupying power. That is not a just war. If the facts are really appalling then you are allergic to reality.

There are no facts to be found anywhere in your horrific accusations of genocide.

No Jews were accused, certain Israelis and the State of Israel were accused by me.

Sophistry.

Disguising hate speech by directing the false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews" does not fool anyone.

The atrocities in Gaza are not imaginary, they are real. If the shoe fits then it fits.

That is incorrect. There is no genocide happening in Gaza.

I repeat that criticism of the policies of the State of Israel is not antisemitism.

Saying that the antisemitism that you posted is not antisemitism does not change the reality that it is antisemitism.

Your accusation fails again.

None of my accusations fail.

 

[Toggle Almendro]

I have not accused Jews generally at all. I have accused some of the leaders and some of military personnel of the State of Israel, a portion of whom are not Jews to boot.

Irrelevant. The fact that you are constraining false accusations to certain prominent Jews does not make the false accusations any less horrific.

Again your accusation is false and your rebuttal fails miserably.

No, you really are posting horrific hate speech.

It is you who is using the term Jews repeatedly and since many Jews both inside and outside of the State of Israel are also citing facts and leveling these accusations against that state and its agents, your blanket use of the word Jews is in itself a form of antisemitism as you are ignoring and demonising the subset of all Jews who vigorously oppose the behaviour of the present State of Israel with respect to Gaza and civilian deaths.

That is incorrect. Denouncing antisemitism is not antisemitism.

It is Israelis killing Palestinians in Gaza en masse and to a lesser degree in the West Bank and Jerusalem.

Killing them in justified self defense.

If the Palestinians do not want people to defend themselves against them, then they should stop raping and murdering people.

Please stop accusing me of using the word Jews when I level accusations at Israelis - leaders an some military personnel as well as some paramilitary units. It is you who is trying to shove the word Jews into my mouth. I don't blame Jews I blame people based on their actions.

You are falsely accusing specific prominent Jews of an imaginary genocide.

Jews is your word not mine. The accusations are based in fact, not imagination and are not disproved by some desperate denialist delusion which blinds certain other posters on this forum.

No, your accusations are false. Horrifically false.

Hmmm. That is some far out hyperbole.

No it isn't. You've falsely accused Jews of committing the very crime that they were the victim of in the Holocaust. There are no words for how horrific your hate speech is.

I am not trying to fool anyone.

You are disguising antisemitism by directing false accusations "at Israel" instead of "at Jews".

I am stating facts and then making accusations based on those facts.

No you aren't.

 

[Serenity]

The Australian PM announced today that they will also recognise a Palestinian state.

 

[Pyrite]

The Australian PM announced today that they will also recognise a Palestinian state.

Good news....Congratulations!

 

[uptower]

Israel has murdered more civilians in a year than Hamas has in its entire existence. There is no moral equivalence here.

Sadly true. It doesn't make Hamas the good guys by any stretch, but it's time to stop pretending they're the only villains.

 

[Tigerace117]

Sadly true. It doesn't make Hamas the good guys by any stretch, but it's time to stop pretending they're the only villains.

The other obvious thing is that there is no form of Palestinian resistance than the West would really be okay with anyway, so a lot of the objections flat rather flat from the start.